Should Teemo's Blinding Dart inflict Nearsight instead of Blind?

darkdill·Apr 1, 2018·25 votes·2,189 views

Teemo's Blinding Dart is a pretty clear example of "binary gameplay". Either the Blind is absolutely debilitating or it's next to worthless. I usually see it being more the latter, since most opponents will use their abilities, not basic attacks, to kill Teemo anyways.

If it were a Nearsight effect, Teemo could get a lot more interesting gameplay out of it. He could use it for brush jukes, prevent an enemy from seeing where he's putting down a shroom, etc. Plus it would be far more universally effective than a Blind, preventing enemies like Vladimir from nuking him for a little bit.

#Assume Riot would adjust Teemo if they made such a change (i.e. nerf him).

43 Comments

Troll for TrumpApr 1, 201810 votes

He needs something to fit into the modern meta. Something that makes him more beneficial for teams

N0TY0UApr 2, 20185 votes

no, near sight is cancer

Jet SettApr 2, 20185 votes

Nearsight is arguably more useful overall as an effect than his current Q. It helps that Yi won't auto him to death, but it does nothing to Swain and any other mage not reliant on autos or auto-based abilities. It could also be effective for both disengage and fighting as it's much more versatile.

Assuming his kit stays the same, he could use the nearsight to blind an enemy and then turn invisible to give himself a leg up on the enemy by surprising them and having increased attack speed.

darkdillApr 2, 20183 votes

This. It opens up so many more tactics for Teemo to explore and makes him less of a one-trick-pony.

undesirable teamApr 1, 20184 votes

yes because nearsight should be on a basic ability as a point and click no

darkdillApr 1, 201812 votes

You didn't read that Riot would adjust Teemo if they made such a change.

It Hertz When IPApr 2, 201813 votes

https://pics.me.me/that-sign-cant-stop-me-because-i-cant-read-23174852.png

Teridax68Apr 2, 20184 votes

I've lost count of the times I've seen this. Even when a post writes in double-sided, bolded font that it assumes Riot would balance accordingly to accommodate a proposed change, there is still at least one user who tries to play gotcha and shoots down the suggestion on the basis that it would be OP in a vacuum. It's toxic to productive conversation, and is pretty clear evidence that there are people here who don't bother to fully read or comprehend other people's posts, but are instead more than willing to look for targets to put down. I've even seen mods guilty of the same, and I think it's high time we collectively did a 180 on this kind of mindset, and started assuming other people have a good idea to begin with before reading their idea in full, and giving them proper consideration.

MorticianjohnApr 2, 20183 votes

I'm not one of those teemo haters who sees him as the devil. I've had my share of teemo frustrations but it's no worse in my mind than any other champion. With that said IMO the nerfs required to make him work with nearsight as a opposed to blind would not make the change worthwhile.

An Enemy SutandoApr 2, 20183 votes

If nerfed (made into a skillshot, damage made either conditional or outright lowered), I can see it happening. Otherwise, a point-and-click nearsight on a relatively low CD is pretty anti-fun

darkdillApr 2, 20183 votes

One way they could nerf it is to drastically increase the cooldown so Teemo can't spam it. Here's how I'd do it.

Increase the cooldown to 12-14 seconds from 8 seconds.
Teemo's basic attacks against enemy Champions reduce the base cooldown by 1 second (so it reduces by "less" if you have CDR)

This allows Teemo to spam it only if he chooses to be really aggressive, not if he's taking pot shots. This also means that later in the game he can spam it more easily once he's built up some attack speed, but isn't super obnoxious in early laning.

An Enemy SutandoApr 2, 20181 votes

I'm still against having powerful unmissable spells in the game, but this is a start.

RottedApplesApr 2, 20183 votes

look i've played a lot of teemo. i love playing teemo. I want to keep the blind. Yes it's usually less useful but that nearsighted shit from quinn is one of the most infuriating mechanics in the game sometimes. The nearsighted would probably be stronger which means i as the teemo would do better than with the blind but i hate the mechanic so much that i don't want it on any more champions even if i'm the one playing with it.

TempistApr 2, 20182 votes

It would be better for the blind to simply be changed to some sort of damage reduction. That way Teemo becomes alot less oppressive and obnoxious against melee auto attackers, and also better against everyone else. It would be a net buff, while simultaneously making him less frustrating I think.

Risen29Apr 2, 20182 votes

Dont touch Teemo. I love his blind. Its something unique about him that can enable you to situationally 1vs1 or be a clutch play against an auto attack carry during a teamfight. It can be played around, like Jax's dodge - you just need to have the game knowledge and tactical sense to play around it or bait it out. It also can be played around by relying on abilities for damage during that time. The blind doesnt work against everyone for that reason.

Nearsight isnt useful for a damn thing. I say this as someone who has quinn as one of thier too three most played champions. Maybe once in a blue moon you'll juke someone with it to run away, but otherwise its a useless little fluff add on to an attack you normally are only going to use for burst damage and marking targets.

Of course, thats what you probably want: to replace a good ability with a useless one. Because then you dont have to learn how to overcome it.

RatpieApr 2, 20182 votes

Keep Teemo the way he is. For the most part he doesn't do that much for his team and has a crap winrate unless they game goes long. He is pure cancer and its more fun as a pick just to tilt people :) I still miss jungling with him. Since the rune changes and jungle buffs, he really struggles where it used to be fun to go 25+ kills on him in a 30 min game. RIP miss my on hit teemo jungling :(

Teridax68Apr 2, 20182 votes

Teemo is now the last champion in the game to have the blind mechanic, and I think he absolutely deserves to lose it. Nearsight could definitely be a good replacement, and to a larger extent I think it might be cooler if Teemo's poison theme connected with limiting his opponents' vision: if his poison was generally known for nearsighting opponents, and he could apply it in a variety of ways in addition to becoming invisible, he'd definitely fit a lot better into the commando/poison scout niche he's been unsuccessfully trying to get into since his release. I also think Blind as a CC effect gives horrible visual feedback, and is extremely binary in its current application. I do think such a change would likely require changing Teemo's Q into a skill shot, or at least warrant giving him a lot more counterplay overall, but this would still be a push in the right direction, particularly since Teemo has been lacking real strengths or any kind of valuable niche for quite a long time now.

SpiritOfOdysseusApr 2, 20182 votes

Yes because nearsighted is so much more balanced kappa

Hawthorn TreeApr 1, 20181 votes

He should have neither.

GodlyBaneApr 2, 20181 votes

yes, i would like for teemos kit to use "kiting" for once instead of making a yi useless all of a sudden because he cant carry the teamfight anymore. Teemos Q makes it so that auto champions arent included in the team fight, and autos arent allowed for your carry to use. teemos Q is too strong and makes him not have to kite.

atleast with this, teemo will now have some skill expression (kiting)

Dead flag bluesApr 2, 20181 votes

Maybe a "sleeping" effect (not the same bs as Zoe obviously), but it would make sense : poisoned dart, stuns for let's say 2.5sec (skillshot obviously) but applies after 1.5 sec and once someone touches them, they wake up and receive something (don't know : a DoT / Vulnerable to a % damage / slow / etc...)

TeCoolMageApr 2, 20181 votes

On the one condition the blind sight lets you see farther than Teemo's effective range (excluding mushrooms). And lower his auto range.

Only let him use it to make bush plays (even give him a passive where his Q or possible even all autos doesn't reveal him from bushes (you have to enter or ward it), if his power budget can fit it).

Basically either he plays dirty or supports his longer range team mates.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 2, 20181 votes

I think they should rework him to be more of a jungler/assassin. He has a cool stealth mechanic and a trap mechanic, the best one in the game. Changing it to nearsight would fall in line with that thematic as well. As it is, people maliciously feed Teemo and he's useless unless you solo push and get picked. Or, Teemo maliciously feeds and he's useless.

He offers nothing to the team. He's fun to play but I internally sigh every time our top laner or support picks him. Because now we all have to adjust our play styles to accommodate him. He can win games but it's just such a hassle unless he pushes to their inhib 15 minutes in.

SirLapseApr 2, 20181 votes

Wouldn't affect his laning much except hurt him on his weakness of people going all-in on him. The Blind offsets this currently just enough.

The real question is: where is the teamfight interaction? Teemo's builds have been varied for years because he has the damage on base values and kiting power from W, with on-hit seeing the most frequent success. He's most successful (like pre-nerf Kennen) as a top lane ADC with hybrid damage basically, and he has no self-peel to speak of. Nearsight isn't going to suddenly make him better at teamfighting especially when it's only one person you're going to be using it within 680 units of yourself, on a 500 range champion. You're not going to really be able to follow up on that Q with real damage without putting yourself at risk.

Shrooms are the real issue.

This is not to say that his shrooms are weak everywhere. It's that they're super limited to scouting and laning rather than being tactical points you'd be able to actively fight with. Sure once you're fed on AP Teemo then you have the "omg I got chunked from one shroom," but you need to get fed FIRST or actually get to late game while the opponent is not constantly spamming trinket/control wards. And that's still just damage and not real utility either. People will legit delete you for your squishy build in teamfights because you're a 500 range champion with no burst options until you get Gunblade.

I would rather they rework his ulti so that you have actual kill pressure in teamfights and don't need stuff like item 3022 to do all the work for you. If they could remove that damn bouncing shroom interaction and give him ACTUAL shroom fighting capabilities, I don't think he would even be that weak. They should have (a long time ago) made it so that pressing R on an already laid shroom makes it detonate. Too many times people have just juked the damn shroom as I laid it because they got to see where I laid it, making it extremely unrewarding until I have a literal minefield. I would take a CD nerf for it; that is how impactful I think it would be.

Teridax68Apr 3, 20181 votes

Reworking Teemo's shrooms to be a teamfighting tool I feel completely misses the point of Teemo's shrooms, and Teemo in general. Teemo's entire theme, including in his gameplay, is that he's a loner who doesn't get into particularly heavy fighting, but who still gets to scout out and control territory. He could probably stand to contribute better in teamfights (which the switch from blind to nearsight would help, since nearsight would be more effective on the front liners he'd be closest to), but I don't think that at any point he specifically needs to be turned into a teamfighter. I could certainly support changes to his shrooms that would make them less toxic (/pun), but overall Teemo I think is a sterling opportunity to work on a champion who works best alone, yet who still gets to provide cool strategic gameplay and interaction, in a similar vein as Yorick in this regard.

TheHobbitsApr 2, 20181 votes

What if the Blinding dart blocked your view of enemy hp and mana.

Think about it. Poison hits. Your view is blinded. You can see contrast in light, people look like dark shapes. You can still attack at the shapes, but you can't tell if they are hurt or not.

During laning phase this could disrupt the enemies last hit timing. In teamfights not knowing enemy hp by view could disrupt too.

tobequitefrankApr 2, 20181 votes

they will never do this

Recon1212Apr 2, 20181 votes

I feel they should just make it like the other blinds in the game (i.e Quinn and Graves)

VyrrenApr 2, 20181 votes

whole champion needs overhaul

nobody wants him on their team nobody wants to play against him

the "iconic" reasoning is not good enough vs that

Madsin25Apr 2, 20181 votes

Teemos blind is the only thing stopping tryndamere from wrecking him.

Turn it into a nearsight it might end up being a nerf to him against AA based champs.

darkdillApr 2, 20181 votes

That's sorta the idea. The tradeoff is that he becomes much more effective against non-AA based Champions like Ryze, Lissandra, etc.

ZackTheWaffleManApr 2, 20181 votes

Maybe let's give him a bird companion while we're at it! And instead of boring shrooms, he could get carried around by this bird as his ult!

Wild GeeseApr 2, 20181 votes

I don't like it, Why change Teemo exactly? His blind is part of why you even pick Teemo, so you can disable right clickers.

If he's going to cause a nearsight, why pick him over Graves or Quinn? I guess he has AP damage and traps, but Teemo does way less damage and far less mobility compared to those two.

Risen29Apr 2, 20181 votes

It seems like none of you can agree on whether the blind is overpowered or useless.

If you think blind is useless, then by all means keep the blind and add nearsight on top of the blind. No complaints here. It would make sense thematically to do it.

However, nearsight by itself is garbage as a survival tool for teemo. It will only occasionally prevent ranged abilities from being cast and only briefly. As far as I know it doesn't even interrupt the existing ranged auto attacks they are already targeted on you.

Blind is a serious lifesaving tool when jumped on by a melee or ranged AA based champion, and can turn around a teamfight when you run up to hit the ADC at that crucial moment.

darkdillApr 3, 20182 votes

By itself, Nearsight wouldn't help Teemo. But then you combine it with the other parts of his kit and then you start seeing some really interesting ideas. You could use it to Nearsight an enemy as you approach some brush in top lane, or use it just before you throw a shroom off to a side, which you could then use much later by baiting an enemy into it.

Risen29Apr 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

By itself, Nearsight wouldn't help Teemo. But then you combine it with the other parts of his kit and then you start seeing some really interesting ideas. You could use it to Nearsight an enemy as you approach some brush in top lane, or use it just before you throw a shroom off to a side, which you could then use much later by baiting an enemy into it.

You're talking about juking the enemy out in minor ways. That's all well and good, but you're suggesting we remove Teemo's most important dueling/survival and teamfight tool for some parlor tricks? Horrible trade. It might make sense to suggest that if you hated Teemo and wanted to dumpster him, but it baffles me as to why some of you are talking as though this would be a good change.

If you guys think nearsight is so important, then by all means add it to his existing blind - but don't try to trade his blind for a nearsight. You'll be sorely disappointed. Nearsight has never been a significant part of Quinn's power or attack style, because it's really not that useful most of the time. Quinn is just played like an ADC or assassin with mobility. The only reason you max Q first on Quinn is for burst damage output, plus it's waveclear.

Arngrim31Apr 2, 20181 votes

It's called blinding dart for a reason.

kile147Apr 2, 20181 votes

Nearsight would ruin current Teemo, and in a vacuum I'd definitely say stick with blind. Nearsight is probably healthier for the game overall, but he would need more extensive changes to make it work (and they wouldn't be nerfs).

If you look at his matchups and winrates, the champions he currently beats are almost entirely melee attack reliant (Fiora, Darius, Camille). Nearsight would do absolutely nothing against them in lane because they are going to jump straight on top of him and start autoing him to death, with nothing he can do about it because he no longer has a blind. Nearsight would make his bad matchups (Pantheon, Cass, Sion) slightly better, but certainly wouldn't turn them around because nearsight isn't strong enough on its own to turn a matchup around, especially when they all have equivalent range and better all ins.

TusutakiApr 3, 20181 votes

I would much rather have nearsight status effect be applied to Shrooms while keeping Blind on Q. If that were to happen then I wouldnt mind if they nerf Q's damage since it is an extremely damaging point and click ability.

Still upset that they nerfed the Shroom timers from 10min to 5.

Mighty MorteinApr 3, 20181 votes

Teemo is due for at least a mini rework. His kit hasn't been majorly edited. He only does okay due to runes and certain items. Other than that, he's only a niche pick.

Risen29Apr 3, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mighty Mortein,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vga43Opv,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2018-04-03T02:45:29.053+0000)

Teemo is due for at least a mini rework. His kit hasn't been majorly edited. He only does okay due to runes and certain items. Other than that, he's only a niche pick.

Because he doesn't really need it. Although simple, there's a lot of tactical depth to his kit - which is why it's so fun. Simple mechanically, but high in tactical options and very high in macro decision making potential. I actually prefer it this way, because it lets me outthink my opponent instead of having to outmicro them (which, in gaming, is nice to have those options, because people have often said it's harder to keep up with the reflexes of kids in games as you get older).

I prefer playing the hit and run spec ops style, or the area denial and push style. You can play him in completely different ways if you want to. He's one of the few champions that has multiple viable buildpaths and can play in almost any role to an extent (I'm not talking about high level elo viability here, but he's one of the most legitimately versatile champions around).

I would not trust them to rework Teemo without ruining the best parts of him. I think there's room for tweaking W and E, but Q and R are where it's at and shouldn't be changed.

Mighty MorteinApr 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because he doesn't really need it. Although simple, there's a lot of tactical depth to his kit - which is why it's so fun. Simple mechanically, but high in tactical options and very high in macro decision making potential. I actually prefer it this way, because it lets me outthink my opponent instead of having to outmicro them (which, in gaming, is nice to have those options, because people have often said it's harder to keep up with the reflexes of kids in games as you get older).

I prefer playing the hit and run spec ops style, or the area denial and push style. You can play him in completely different ways if you want to. He's one of the few champions that has multiple viable buildpaths and can play in almost any role to an extent (I'm not talking about high level elo viability here, but he's one of the most legitimately versatile champions around).

I would not trust them to rework Teemo without ruining the best parts of him. I think there's room for tweaking W and E, but Q and R are where it's at and shouldn't be changed.

I think the biggest thing he needs is a slightly different W. Other than that, I think he's fine. I love playing Teemo. He's a pretty carefree champion. He's my go to fun champion.