Make items like Black Cleaver and Ice Borne Gauntlet Melee Only

TheDogeAvenger·Oct 28, 2018·10 votes·3,924 views

Items like Black Cleaver and Ice-born Gauntlet have been abused by champs such as Lucian, Ezreal, Miss Fortune and more recently Viktor. Now that puts up the question. Why the fuck are ranged champs still abusing items like Cleaver and Gauntlet. These champs have had winrates still being in the 50s because they abuse these items so much. Things like Black Cleaver not only give damage but health,cdr and armor pen. Same with Gauntlet. Its been used on champs such as Viktor and Ezreal and makings kiting easy while also giving armor and mana. So why should they be still using these items. These items are basically made for bruisers not for adcs to abuse and spam. If you are saying that they should keep them them because this hasn't happened before, it has. A few seasons ago tiamat used to stack and before it was able to be on ranged champs so things like Twitch were able to get 6 of them and mow down a team with R. Now nerfing these items won't work out so well for bruisers but I think they should give it a tiamat treatment and put them only for melee champs.

24 Comments

DarukongSrOct 28, 20184 votes

I agree, at least with cleaver. Adcs sort of ruined the item

Tahminatrix Oct 28, 20182 votes

Gnar item 3070

Buff Riven PlzOct 28, 20182 votes

Gnar/Urgot have more problems as a whole then 1 item. if even they arent goint to make it melee only they should atleast revert the changes to it. 50 ad/300 Hp/Build Path.

UwhtaznOct 28, 20183 votes

Not to mention last season when Flat Armor Pent got rework and Jhin Varus MissFortune nuke crit adcs. Also, I'm still mad at riot for making item 3025 a situational item for Ezreal . Easier kiting, slow proc and sheen proc. Like seriously Riot, why hasn't item 3147 item 3142 item 3071 become melee only items?

AirKingNeoOct 28, 20182 votes

cause then MF would be dumbster and you'd gut variety in ADCs.

InfernapeOct 29, 20182 votes

It wouldn't be hard for Riot to change her kit so that crit becomes a lot more lucrative. Lethality only works because literally all of her damage is frontloaded into her first AA with her ult to follow up.

ChaddyFantomeOct 29, 20184 votes

I don't see whats inherently toxic about ADCs using Clever. Chipping away at the frontlines defense actually makes sense thematically for the role as well.

ParoeOct 29, 20183 votes

To be fair, cleaver is an AD-caster item and not a fighter item anymore. It could totally stand to be reworked into a cheaper item that was more healthy.

item 1038 (1300) + item 3044 (1250)+350g (2900g)

55AD 250HP 10% CDR Unique passive: Rage Unique passive: Sundering strikes; Dealing physical damage to a champion grants 5% bonus armor penetration up to 5 times for 6 seconds

CIaymanOct 30, 20181 votes

That actually sounds completely worthless

ParoeOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That actually sounds completely worthless

Why? Its still got rage and shred, the main reasons you should be buying cleaver.

There really, really, REALLY needs to be a difference between tank and bruiser items. IMO they should all have 250 or so HP with above 50AD, so that actual tank items can have their space.

Modl Ryden lOct 29, 20181 votes

Iceborn gauntlet maybe but then where would Frozen Mallet stand? Not that Frozen Mallet is melee only but it becomes more of "what do I pick? more armor and CDR or more health?" Then you can't really build both anyways since the passives overlap with dimishing returns.

Really they need to fix mana itemization for AD-type champs. Tear is almost ubiquitous on Ezreal with Jayce as a distant second. Essence Reaver has fallen out of favor again, as it usually does, and Iceborn is still mostly an Ezreal only item.

Cleaver is fine. It's a really universal item and it's great to have on champs like MF and Lucian because the health gives them a little bit more durability becuase Lucian has VERY low attack range and MF has to sit and channel ulti for 3 seconds. Her attack delay is really bad too so it's almost as bad as Lucian's low attack range.

BLIGHTBRINGEROct 29, 20181 votes

My mind just aches when I look at the games logic when it comes to items and champions who buy which items lol...

An Archer (Ashe for example) buying a BF Sword.
A Mage (Xerath for example) buying atleast 3 different staff items.
Not a physically strong Assassin (Talon for example) buying a Black Cleaver, an item that's a massive/heavy War Axe.

JackMcSnipeyzOct 29, 20181 votes

How does lucian abuse black cleaver just because he builds it? He's strong because he was buffed, not because of BC, he's been building it for ages.

Inkling CommandoOct 29, 20181 votes

now now. both melee and ranged have unique items to use. if BC/IBG were made to be melee only it'd be unfair since they'd have 5 unique items while ranged gets one.

melee only: item 3074 item 3748 item 3053 ranged only: item 3085

so melee dont need anymore unique items to use.

KídáOct 29, 20181 votes

I hate Ezreal with item 3025 because it makes it so hard to get close and then if hes any good, he has the E saved to get away. One of the reasons AP KogMaw was gutted was because with item 3116 and his ult range, it was hard to get close to him yet EZ does something similar and its not an issue apperently.

OleandervineOct 29, 20181 votes

What would you recommend Urgot building then if you're going to gut his core items? He's already limited from a lot of juggernaut items because they're melee only, and this would basically invalidate him.

InfernapeOct 30, 20181 votes

Add a black market where urgot can buy his own version of melee only items. The only difference would be that the items are exclusive to Urgot, have slightly altered stats to their melee only counterparts (due to him being ranged), and have slightly different names. Think of a reverse Ornn passive.

ParoeOct 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

What would you recommend Urgot building then if you're going to gut his core items? He's already limited from a lot of juggernaut items because they're melee only, and this would basically invalidate him.

Simple. Urgot: Basic attack range ~~475~~ 175 (Basic attacks with non-loaded shotgun legs) Purge: During this time he autonomously ~~basic attacks~~ attacks the nearest enemy at 3.0 attack speed with his gun,, prioritizing enemy champions marked

With urgot being "melee" he has access to juggernaut itemization again, and can function properly.

The thigh guyOct 30, 20181 votes

Yes. By all means take even more defensive utility away from adcs. :/ anything that they use for any kind of survivability gets gutted or made melee only as is.

ParoeOct 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ved88XVN,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-10-30T01:58:29.295+0000)

Yes. By all means take even more defensive utility away from adcs. :/ anything that they use for any kind of survivability gets gutted or made melee only as is.

To be fair, marksmen arent supposed to HAVE defense. Range, massive damage, and movement speed are their defensive attributes. If they DO get a defensive item, it should be something like old GA that sacrificed damage for survivability.

The thigh guyOct 30, 20181 votes

We used tabi’s Riot gutted it. We used steriks. Riot took it away We used ga. Riot gutted it. We used ibg. Riot gutted it. We used deaths dance. Riot gutted it.

We litteraly have no defense now. Zero. Zip. Zilch. While assassins are too mobile for us to do anything about.

ParoeOct 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ved88XVN,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T03:41:55.231+0000)

We used tabi’s Riot gutted it. We used steriks. Riot took it away We used ga. Riot gutted it. We used ibg. Riot gutted it. We used deaths dance. Riot gutted it.

We litteraly have no defense now. Zero. Zip. Zilch. While assassins are too mobile for us to do anything about.

Marksmen have 420+ movement speed due to getting boots+at least 11% increased movement speed, while having over 500 basic attack range.
Marksmen were never intended to be tanky, their survivability lies in their range and the sheer safety that comes from it.
GA was reworked with marksmen in mind, and turned INTO a marksman item.
Steraks gage was never meant to make marksmen, with their point and click 2.0 total AD scaling nuke on a 0.5 second cooldown, tanky.
IBG was only ever used on ezreal, and its nerf (the removal of AP on it) was related to riot changing sheen, not ezreal
I dont think deaths dance was ever nerfed because it was over used, or phantom dancer for that matter.
Ninja tabi was nerfed because everyone used it, because marksmen damage was just so obscenely high.

I say this again; Marksmen should not be building bruiser, because when they get access to all the defensive tools with all of the range and movement speed tools they become an extreme problem. We saw this during the Tabi meta, when marksmen were so strong they were purchasing Tabi just to go even against another marksman.

CIaymanOct 30, 20181 votes

If cleaver goes melee-only, then "Urgot tier" will be a thing again lmao