@ Meddler Frostqueens

Caytheles·Oct 7, 2015·3 votes·2,249 views

Any chance this unneeded "support" item is going to be removed? or at least changed so that Burst/Lategame mages wont be able to abuse it like they do now?

35 Comments

RiotMeddlerOct 7, 201510 votes

No, we don't have any plans to remove the Frost Queen's line of items. They help various casters, usually more damage focused ones, to work as duo laners supporting an ADC. Thats something we feel's good for the game, in terms of the sort of lane match ups it enables and variety of play experiences it offers. If all we were seeing were aggressive kill lanes then I'd agree there was a problem we should be fixing. Champions with high utility and team assisting kits are something it's great to see get played. We don't feel we should be forcing everyone that doesn't fit that description out of the support position though, it's a spot that can healthily include a range of classes (most commonly tanks, mages, tanky supports or caster supports)

kagepaladinOct 7, 20153 votes

Meddler do you guys planning an re-reworking mordekaiser, i have played new mordekaiser and it wasnt way back when like 5+ years ago when i read his lore and was like this guy is a total BA and went and started maining him, i even bought every single mordekaiser skin including dragon knight and king of clubs with 90k mastery points and i don't even play him anymore because he just feels to different, it was nice before the pre-update with the echoing Q I had a 1v5 pentakill, post update i had gotten 4 more under my belt now it honestly like mordekaiser is now a male version of irelia. All-in-All i think pre rework mordekaiser was better than the current one and honestly if a champion isn't that popular why not make a champion spotlight on the boards where you can say here is what some of the most popular rune/mastery combinations are the most taken summoner spells and what most people build in games to get people interested in playing those champions not just giving them an unneeded rework to bring them into the limelight when some already had good kits? so my true question is will you be reworking him anytime soon?

DrNovaOct 7, 201516 votes

Stop desperately trying to hijack a thread just cause a red came.

kagepaladinOct 7, 20151 votes

it was an honest question no need to be rude and if i was desperate i would've made a completely different post completely write the thing out in all caps begging about the unfair justice of it all and bi***ing and whining about it, my post is a logical question asking if they will or will not rework mordekaiser i just figure since it seems most rioter ignore questions asked by the community now i figured this would be the best way sorry if i annoyed someone i have never met and shouldn't really care about what someone else decides to post on a boards post it's not like it negatively impacts your life in anyway unless you choose it to which just seems like you have some issues letting something so insignificant affect you. so a good day to you sir.

DrNovaOct 7, 201513 votes

Stop being a drama queen as well.

AMYS GRAVEOct 7, 20154 votes

I think you mean drama frost queen.

GinoSoldierOct 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, we don't have any plans to remove the Frost Queen's line of items. They help various casters, usually more damage focused ones, to work as duo laners supporting an ADC. Thats something we feel's good for the game, in terms of the sort of lane match ups it enables and variety of play experiences it offers. If all we were seeing were aggressive kill lanes then I'd agree there was a problem we should be fixing. Champions with high utility and team assisting kits are something it's great to see get played. We don't feel we should be forcing everyone that doesn't fit that description out of the support position though, it's a spot that can healthily include a range of classes (most commonly tanks, mages, tanky supports or caster supports)

A mite unrelated perhaps, but any chance for the item 3840 line to be brought into the regular rift? Or some kind of an AD support item? I love breaking the meta and i think some AD champions could use the love.

Sightless66Oct 7, 20152 votes

In that case, is there any chance of a buff to the Frost Queen's line, particularly to the actual Frost Queen's Claim? I always see people building the Frostfang and then just leaving it there until they sell it, or even just buying Spellthief's Edge and then selling it later for a Talisman. It doesn't seem like FQC is really having any impact on the game even on the mage supports that should want to build it. Would you agree that this is a problem worth addressing, and if so do you guys have any plan to address it?

AMYS GRAVEOct 7, 20151 votes

this ^

Champion SkinOct 7, 20151 votes

It is generally better to just sit on item 3303 because upgrading it to item 3098 doesn't give you that much and it generally isn't worth It delays your next item by 500 gold and this is what you get for the 500 gold you pay it gives you 25% mana regen, 5 AP and 5 damage and gold on proc (max 5GP/10 and 0.5 DPS or 30 damage when you have 3 stacks) Basically the stats are almost worthless and for the 5 gold/10 seconds (if you always proc it... which will likely never happen) to make back the 500 gold you need 10s*100procs=1000 seconds or 16 min and 40 sec (that is quite a long while given that you probably take some time to get frostfang and you will likely need to add 5-10 min given how often you aren't able to proc it)

TLDR It delays your next item by 500 it gives you 5AP and 25% mana regen (5 damage on proc) And it will take you at least 16 min and 40 seconds to get your 500 gold back more realistically it will be between 22 and 35 min or something like that

Champion SkinOct 7, 20151 votes

One thing though... I do think the item 3303 might be a bit too strong/good and that item 3098 might be a bit too weak (at least compared to ... which makes upgrading it seem rather pointless)

item 3303 ---- item 3098 (cost for item/upgrade)365 gold ---- 500 gold (AP item/upgrade gives)5 AP ----- 5 AP 25% mana regen ---- 25% mana regen 2GP/10 ---- 0GP/10 5 gold and 10 damage on AA/Spell (max 5GP/10 and 10 damage every 10 seconds) ---- 5 gold and 5 additional damage

Spell thief is as good as or better then frostfang in everything... and yet it still is cheaper and you get it earlier (giving it more time to give you gold through the GP/10 and gold AA/spell) So why bother delaying your other items by 500 gold by going for frostfang? the only way it is worth it is if you are going for Frost Queen's claim... which generally isn't considered as great....

TNHA BaritoneOct 8, 20151 votes

"If all we were seeing were aggressive kill lanes then I'd agree there was a problem we should be fixing" I thought you guys don't balance around popularity.

CaythelesJan 13, 20161 votes

Eyyy meddler, they Nerfed Frostqueens for being too strong in the mid lane and bot.

ErockandrollOct 7, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Any chance this unneeded "support" item is going to be removed? or at least changed so that Burst/Lategame mages wont be able to abuse it like they do now?

Now when the hell did mages buy a gp10 item? And how would Frost Queen be abused, more so than an AP item?

Unless your complaining about poke supports out pacing you in gold. Which probably means you need to work on your CS.

And Honestly, Poke supports, (Aside from some mages played as supports) don't even really have that strong ratios, so it's not even super efficient to build large amounts of AP. If you want to make Frost fang the premiere poke item for supports. Increase the damage on the tribute passive. And no, AP's wouldn't abuse that because they would have better luck abusing Ludens, for poke damage.

DrNovaOct 7, 20151 votes

Cept good ole Karma. I like it on her.

RalanrOct 7, 20151 votes

Played support Brand. Used this item.

TNHA BaritoneOct 7, 20153 votes

Sell it for Talisman :) (I know that is not a fix.)

CaythelesOct 7, 20151 votes

What? i dont understand how that helps at all... please explain?

TNHA BaritoneOct 7, 20152 votes

The utilty will be much appreciated by your team than 50 more Ap and a subpar slow (ok the slow is actually good but you gotta be up in their face and most ap supports are so squishy)

CaythelesOct 7, 20151 votes

No, this is a post saying that Frostqueens should be removed... all it does is Promote Kill lanes and takes away the definition of a support. So it should be Taken off from the game.

DrNovaOct 7, 20155 votes

Considering its the least used of the three your argument is invalid.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 7, 20151 votes

What is wrong with a kill lane? That's generally one of the 3 strategies you can take in a lane (poke, all in/kill, passive), and it goes with the 3 main types of supports there are (tanky engage, healing, and poke)

Photos of GhostsOct 7, 20151 votes

Get frost queen for the first two tiers, since it gives more gold and poke, and then sell it because it gives too little AP and unusable utility.

Champion SkinOct 8, 20151 votes

You probably shouldn't upgrade it at all Given that the second upgrade costs 500 gold and only gives +5 extra gold per proc (max once every 10 seconds) and the stats it gives are rather bad...

Hayaishi2Oct 7, 20151 votes

doesnt it have like the best gold generation?

GinoSoldierOct 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

doesnt it have like the best gold generation?

Yes and no. A support who's behind and can't play aggressively won't get much from it usually, but carrying supports tend to get more than either coin or shield, from what i've seen anyway.

CaythelesOct 7, 20151 votes

Exactly "Carrying Supports" .... supports arent meant to carry in THAT way we are meant to carry in utility and vision not damage like a normal mage. We are here to Support hence the name.

GinoSoldierOct 7, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Exactly "Carrying Supports" .... supports arent meant to carry in THAT way we are meant to carry in utility and vision not damage like a normal mage. We are here to Support hence the name.

Except there's a niche for everything. What do you pick for a support when your top laner is Malphite, jungle is Pantheon, mid is Yasuo and ADC is Jinx? You go straight AP because tankiness is covered, and AD is more than covered. You make up for lost utility by forcing the enemy team to build MR or get punished by you, while still keeping yourself relevant in a supporting role through the AP scalings of your utility spells. If nothing else, Frost Queen's Claim supports this wonderfully.

A support's role outside of vision is not simply to CC, it's to fill the gaps that your team lacks. If that means CC, pick Leona or Nautilus. If it's engage potential, pick Thresh or Blitzcrank. If it's sheer tankiness, pick Tahm or Braum. If that means disengage and safety, pick Janna or Janna. If that means AP, pick Annie or Sona. They all have CC, they all also excel at different things. Annie and Sona just happen to excel at melting faces. A carrying support is a support who succeeds at any of those things, when and where appropriate.

Remember that in the end whether or not the support gets the kill (which a skilled AP support is supposed to be able to avoid), more damage leads to faster kills which is also a very valid way of supporting. Let's assume I happen to snatch an early kill as Sona after a bad trade in which my ADC died. If i get a bit of AP with what i have i can perhaps bully away the enemy ADC and/or support, thus allowing my own ADC to farm more safely and helping him carry better, later. Supports having damage is not, and never was a bad thing and i don't understand why people think so.

The real issue with supports having damage is that if they steamroll some way or another, they may begin to think their role shifts from supporting to primary damage dealer, which is false, but that's a player mentality mistake, not necessarily a role one.

Champion SkinOct 7, 20151 votes

Actually Frost Queens Claim works really badly with AP scalings given how little AP it gives for how much gold it costs... If you want AP/Damage you are better of building other items (and just sitting on item 3303 ) However the utility of the active can be good but usually isn't considered good enough when compared to other options

if you consider that you will always have item 3303 Then here is what you get and what you pay for upgrading into item 3092 You pay 1835 gold you get 25% mana regen, 45 AP, 10% CDR, 5 extra gold and damage on proc (once every 10 seconds or 15 extra damage in a fight with max stacks) And the active

for almost the same amount of gold you could have instead have gotten item 3108 item 1052 item 3114 which will give you 50 AP and 50% mana regen and 10% CDR also for only 435 more gold you will have item 3165 Which will give you 80AP, 100% mana regen, 20% CDR and the Grevious wounds passive which is obviously better stat wise compared to item 3092 + (65 AP, 25% mana regen, 10% CDR)

GinoSoldierOct 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=veKTEKVn,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-07T23:51:08.035+0000)

Actually Frost Queens Claim works really badly with AP scalings given how little AP it gives for how much gold it costs... If you want AP/Damage you are better of building other items (and just sitting on ) However the utility of the active can be good but usually isn't considered good enough when compared to other options

if you consider that you will always have Then here is what you get and what you pay for upgrading into You pay 1835 gold you get 25% mana regen, 45 AP, 10% CDR, 5 extra gold and damage on proc (once every 10 seconds or 15 extra damage in a fight with max stacks) And the active

for almost the same amount of gold you could have instead have gotten which will give you 50 AP and 50% mana regen and 10% CDR also for only 435 more gold you will have Which will give you 80AP, 100% mana regen, 20% CDR and the Grevious wounds passive which is obviously better stat wise compared to + (65 AP, 25% mana regen, 10% CDR)

I rather disagree with you, as you forget to calculate the gold income in the cost. Every time you gain gold with it, it's basically it's price going down. By the end of a 40-50 minutes game where i'm not feeding, usually the cost of Frost Queen's Claim becomes 0, and it's cost becomes pure profit. I say that for an item that costs potentially 0 gold, Frost Queen's Claim is plenty powerful enough. (But feel free to buff it anytime you want!)

You also forget that by upgrading the item to it's max rank you can now kill minions without being punished, meaning that while you still shouldn't farm, at least last hitting a minion accidentally while poking won't cripple your item income. And excuse me, but DOUBLING the gold generation of the item seems very much worth the upgrade into Frostfang to me.

Champion SkinOct 8, 20151 votes

Compared to item 3303 (after all nobody is saying spell thief is bad... if anything it is too good) the upgrade to item 3092 gives +5 gold each time the passive is proced which can happen at most once every 10 seconds So for the upgrade from to to pay for itself (1835 gold) the game would have to last 1835gold/5 gold per proc = 367 procs If you stand and hit an enemy champion/tower all game long then it will take 367procs * 10 seconds recharge time = 3670 seconds or 61min and 10 seconds (after you have bought frostfang which gives the increased gold) (Also keep in mind that is 61min without going more then 30 seconds of hitting an enemy champion/tower... which will pretty much never ever happen so it will take even longer then that)

item 3098 and item 3092 doesn't really give much more gold compared to item 3303 ... so upgrading it for the "extra" gold is pointless and it is much better to just save the gold and just sit on until you run out of inventory space/slots

CaythelesOct 7, 20151 votes

What Gino said, however the item is abused quite alot... the other two items cant really be abused.

Old Man TeetoOct 7, 20151 votes

As long as you can consistently use the stacks, yes.

However, being near an enemy has... inherent risks!

Champion SkinOct 7, 20151 votes

Yes and no If you can proc it is probably the best... however frostfang and frost queen isn't all that great so upgrading it is usually a bad idea (and eventually Targon line will give the most gold as the gold value of minions increase as the game goes on.... however usually in game later on it is impossible to use the stacks so that's only in theory)