The rework is not why Shyvana is strong...

Mira Arya Enthe··57 votes·3,410 views

She gained: Unstoppable ult HP on ult Power to dragon form E 10% bonus damage to dragons

She lost: Free unconditional armor and magic resist Damage on ult Range on ult Double armor and MR during ult E piercing in both forms E travel Speed Fervor/SotA

She is currently strong because of a meta shift and the new jungle being OP on certain champions. Plus buffs to her core items. The rework only brought her into the spotlight. Riot needs to consider this as they tune her. And if she is nerfed will need to be rebuffed when they remove/nerf her items/the jungle. So we don't get the devourer problem again where she is nerfed for it but never rebuffed after it.

Just clarifying. It was never the rework that made her meta again. I started seeing her do better just from other changes. The rework just made her popular.

35 Comments

Parceval10 votes

She strong right now because of clear speed, simple as that.

Aritra2 votes

{quoted}

She strong right now because of clear speed, simple as that.

well yea isnt that what the op said but not as specific, but still implied

50000000000000002 votes

Specifics are definitely appreciated, as a non Shyvanna player/jungle main.

DunkinNoobs8 votes

This is stupid. Of course the rework is why she's strong. The mythical meta shift you're talking about had absolutely nothing to do with it. They added insane amounts of power to her dragon form and lost very little as compensation. The only Shyvana item that got changed was Botrk which most Shyvana players don't even build anymore.

Ulquiorra9954 votes

I guess that Lee, Hecarim, Zac and Vi are also busted because of their reworks... Oh wait. They had none. I guess it has to be due to a mythical meta shift then.

Ferus and Ferrum2 votes

Lee and Zac were already in the meta when Shyv dropped in. Vi and Hec only showed up to pick up their free LP off of colossus being busted as hell. Her rework is a big part of why she is strong now, the jungle changes did help her but she wasn't a popular pick until last patch, which was incidentally her rework.

Now before her rework she sat below a 50% winrate. This is with the majority of her players being dedicated mains. afterwards her playrate and winrate jumped, which implies that even newbies who are unfamiliar with her are winning. Moreover shes winning in a meta full of bully junglers and early gamers who are supposed to win the game before she even becomes relevant. She's a farm jungler excelling outside of her meta. There was no larger meta shift that caused her to be good.

The OP does a rough job of listing both her losses and gains, as with a bulletpoint list it just looks like it was a net nerf. However when you look at the value of what she actually gained versus the value of what she lost the rework fixed more of her problems. For example

-Shyv didn't have much of an issue being tanky before. She still doesn't but now her passive snowballs off of mid-bot map control which is easy once she gets ahead. -Shyv did have issues not getting stopped mid ulti. Especially with things like Poppy and other cc tanks surging in popularity with colossus being as strong as it is, without her ult being changed she would perform much more poorly than she does now. Losing the damage on ult is meaningless here because half the time you got stopped before it applied to anyone. -Losing missile speed on her e is big, but the speed was exchanged for range, persistent aoe, way more burst on the ability itself, and still retained its capability to mark multiple targets for her autos and q.

Yes her clear factors, and yes Botrk factors (even though it's the only core item on her that changed), but the meta shouldn't favor her at all, having a larger playrate almost always results in a lower winrate due to people first timing her. You can't just blame this on item synergy and a metashift where she should be hard punished for waiting for her midgame.

Funny how in a meta full of cc tanks, bruiser carries, and bully junglers abusing a mastery, the one rose to grow out of the concrete is a jungler with no cc or gapcloser pre-6, who farms and hits you with a sack of gold midgame. By that logic my girl Evelynn should feel right at home here. Looks up win-rate oh...

Zerana7 votes

I concur and frankly even the worst jungler can counter her hard, the support junglers are the best at this. Nunu takes her dragons and Ivern takes her camps. If you actually take the dragons and don't let her have more than one you should have no issue with her passive.

Xonra1 votes

Which is amusing since Riot swears she wasn't balanced around it, yet if she gets no dragons, she is SOL

Salron7 votes

Yes it was the rework The preseason patch Dropped her winrate by 2% in 6.22 it only went back up by a whopping 5% because of the rework in 6.23 http://puu.sh/sLxvU/2dd0dda11d.png

The only "core item" of hers that got buffed was bork, and even despite that, bloodrazor and titanic are still the 2 most popular core damage items on her, making bork a non-factor

You're acting as if she lost more than she gained Ult not being interrupted by a light breeze is a massive buff that is worth more than anything else she lost there

"Losing passthrough on Dragon E" doesnt mean anything anything when the damage total is hilariously overtuned as a result compared to what it used to be

Gotta love how people blindly listen to OP just because he's a Shyv main when a simple look at patch notes and the massive WR spike tell you everything you need to

Yes, the new jungle is good for her, but it's not the main reason why she's strong The jungle as a whole needs tuning regardless, role is way too strong atm

Keira Helsh3 votes

Indeed, I've noticed a lot of focus on her strength w leven though I've seen other sources causing her power growth

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

her dragon E is fucking ridiculous.

japan hate acc3 votes

Yeah, but since she is strong, she should still be tuned/nerfed as such. If it only is a meta shift, then once the meta does shift again, then she can be recompensed.

Attticus Finch28 votes

This sort of pendulum-balancing is why we have these issues in the first place.

LordGeovanni8 votes

Not to metion that they take forever to touch every champion that they want to balance this way

Ulquiorra99512 votes

Unfortunately Rito is not known for showing love to Shyvana. Last time she lost half of early Q damage and once the item that made her problematic was gone they "compensated" her by giving her increased AP ratios. If she gets an actual compensation once jungle gets fixed I'll be happy, but that's just not very likely I'm afraid.

Xonra1 votes

Except she won't be, because Riot rarely does that. I mean look at Sej. It has to take some REALLY dedicated players to make her worth even looking at. She is the poster child for why this is a terrible idea.

invisiblecat13 votes

I still think they only real thing strong about her kit is the dragon form E that can deal a quick and easy 300-400 burst damage mid-late game and apply the mark The rest of why she is strong isn't her fault

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Reworks and buffs to a loved main are a double edged sword it seems.

They feel much better to play.

But they also get taken from you a lot by the meta people. :(

VexingRaven2 votes

When will Riot learn that any sort of on-hit jungle item will always make certain champions problematic?

Troll for Trump2 votes

Basically why Hec is seen as "strong" right now. Same is true for many other champs. When the conditions are right, certain champs will be successful. Some champs have broader niches. Lee has the broadest one, Shyv and Hec also have relatively large pools.

And yes, Riot said Hec was strong right now, but their justification for it can also be applied to shyv.

chipndip12 votes

She became strong because her ult becoming unstoppable is significantly more useful than a number of things she lost, given the champs that are strong now.

Penns1 votes

Idk, her win rate wasnt that good before her rework..

Mostro Gallo1 votes

She's been strong, it's just that no one played her. She got a random-ass rework, so people started picking her. It's as simple as that.

There are a handful of strong champions that are lowkey right now, all it takes is some pro deciding to play/do well with them and then boom , the champion will eventually be nerfed

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

A meta shift would take some time, at least you should assume so. Her winrate jump is really odd, it went from 48,33% to 53,82% in just one patch. That's an increase of 5,49% in just one patch and it was the same one her rework was introduced. You really want to tell us that is coincidence and the rework isn't the reason that she is strong now?

Sry, but this data clearly tells me her rework was overtuned and Shyvana is in need of nerfs for her kit.

Shifue Draven1 votes

Honestly i this point i am getting so disgusted with league it's not even funny all shyvana has is strong clears going for her that is her identity. They gave her a lot of a small buff and took more from her and now it's hey lets gut her clear speed so ones like lee and others can now just invade and kill her cause she can't duel early granted you can fight and win if they are low.But shyvanna has always been a power farmer and a counter jungler. So now what is she going to be? everyone else that falls in to the tankyish jungle meta does it better then her but the clearing speed. Vi has better mobility,damage,and cc. hecraim better mobility,damage and cc as well. ammu better cc and mobility. volibear better cc mobility and damage. see where i am going? i can keep listing others to take over her even going with nasus jungle ffs. So now where is shyvanna going to fit when she can't clear?

RaiokuMoonscar1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shifue Draven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vbPcKlei,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-12-11T09:38:24.774+0000)

Honestly i this point i am getting so disgusted with league it's not even funny all shyvana has is strong clears going for her that is her identity. They gave her a lot of a small buff and took more from her and now it's hey lets gut her clear speed so ones like lee and others can now just invade and kill her cause she can't duel early granted you can fight and win if they are low.But shyvanna has always been a power farmer and a counter jungler. So now what is she going to be? everyone else that falls in to the tankyish jungle meta does it better then her but the clearing speed. Vi has better mobility,damage,and cc. hecraim better mobility,damage and cc as well. ammu better cc and mobility. volibear better cc mobility and damage. see where i am going? i can keep listing others to take over her even going with nasus jungle ffs. So now where is shyvanna going to fit when she can't clear?

Your problems with the jg clear nerf is misplaced a little bit, it barely changes her clear speed, tested it several times and its only a matter of 10 or less seconds compared to b4.

Foxstep1 votes

Riot should dumpster those power farming junglers. Every time they are strong playing against them is a pain in the ass. Thinking also of Yi, Udyr etc.

When they got an idea how to continue with those champions I'm fine with seeing them again.

NoDaddyItHurts1 votes

I wouldn't say she lost Fervor, given that it is still the best mastery on her and pretty strong regardless.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

Fervor? Why the hell do you run that on her?

Kubox1 votes

Because most other stuff sucks. That and it completes her kit pretty well, increasing her damage for sticking to targets.

Warlord is okay, but not that amazing either. Stormraider has potential but only if you go full damage. Thunderlord is average. Grasp is a safe option, but is not amazing either. Colossus is not worth it. Bond of Stone can work, but she doesn't really need that jungle damage reduction.

NoDaddyItHurts1 votes

{quoted}

Fervor? Why the hell do you run that on her?

Because it's perfect for bruisers that like to have AD but at the same time have to itemize as a tank? It's by far the best damage mastery and going Courage of the Colossus on her is a huge waste.

Takua Nuva1 votes

is always the same before season ends the jungle is too easy everyone can jungle pre season comes and only early game clear champions can do it well and shy always gets op, them she is nerfed and in next new season she is op again

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Unstoppable ult was a huge increase in power.

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

You're objectively wrong. It's the rework, especially the part where her ult now has a 100% uptime from the instant she hits 6.

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