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Black Cleaver proposed change

TecToNiiC··24 votes·2,359 views

While black cleaver is still a good item it seems to be outclassed by ghostblade lately.

My proposed change is to use a giants belt instead of ruby crystal and remove a bit of AD. These changes are geared at making cleaver more of a tank/bruiser friendly item and further differentiate it from ghost blade by reinforcing the hp.

New stats would be Black Cleaver (Brutalizer + Giants belt + 663 gold) 400 hp 40 Ad 10% cdr 10 Armor pen Same passive.

I was hoping to accomplish two things with this.

  1. Make it more appealing to tanky characters so brutalizer has 2 clearly seperate build paths.

  2. Make the final combine cost slightly lower by having a larger component piece.

I am worried that i may be too much health but i like the idea of giants belt having another solid as option as frozen mallet, sunfire, and warmogs have all dropped substantially in popularity leaving randuin's as the main use for a giants belt.

Let me know what you guys think!

Edit: Thanks for the support! Spread the word

28 Comments

1 4m 4 n00b4 votes

How about building it out of ruby crystal upgrade with CDR and a Brutalizer and giving it slightly more health and 10% more CDR. So that AD caster love the item even more.

TecToNiiC3 votes

I was thinking about that too but 20% i think is too easily combined with cdr boots and 5% mastery for max cdr.

20% also seemed really high with all the other stats it gives. It does have some synergy in the fact that more cdr would mean more ability spam and more aoe shred...not sure

ProfDrDeath15 votes

No, manaless AD casters should not have easy access to 20% CdR.

CrimsonRakan1 votes

Then you buyitem 3050

Kuroi864 votes

While I don't think this change is really needed, it could be a good change. Personally BC is more of a bruiser item, good for champs that can dole out fast physical punishment but benefit from having some health and CDR on top of it all. Panth, Garen, Hecarim and Darius would all probably love this change.

Tuss1 votes

Well put!

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Darius This champ's E actually scales better with item 3035, but yes, it would be a nice change~

Sire Hippington1 votes

not really, %pen scales multiplicative. The flat pen part off BC scales better with his E, and he can easily distribute some stacks

Lt Cuddles1 votes

item 3035 is just cheaper for me, its offen what I shoot for :P

Sire Hippington1 votes

'is cheaper' is a valid argument. 'Darius This champ's E actually scales better withitem 3035 ' however is not

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Alright, I was referring to the passives, seeing that item 3071 reduces armor, and is E ignores it, along with item 3035, but item 3071's other stats are probably why you buy it. Oh, and these two items don't interfere with one another, correct?

Sire Hippington1 votes

as i said befor, %pen stacks multiplicativly. that means darius passive + LW is 25%+((35%(1-0.25))=~51% total with a BC, u would have 25%+(25%(1-0.25))=44%, just with 10 more ad, 10 flat pen(an enemy would need ~140 armor for LW to break even in terms of pen with a stacked BC), 10% cdr, 200hp and the 25% shred help ur entire team.

LW and BC inteffer the same way they interfere with darius E-passive

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Ah, just checking~

Kuroi861 votes

Yes and no, he's good with armor pen in any form. But the cdr and health are also VERY nice on bruisers.

7ha7guy7771 votes

why not both? item 3071 item 3035 item 3142 with max rank E, it's like they aren't even wearing armor. probably not a good idea because darius would get melted really fast with those items as part of his build.

Lt Cuddles1 votes

^

Messaiga2 votes

I like this idea, and 10% CDR is definitely enough for Black Cleaver. Any more and this would be waaaaaay too efficient. This could actually be a bit better on champions who don't have such high base HP (looking at champs like Vi, Panth, Wukong).

Hyrum Graff2 votes

I would love building this on my AP corki.

item 3165 item 3020 item 3151 item 3116 item 3071 item 3135

Duke Anax2 votes

Good build, have you thought about replacing Void with WIt's? YO already have a lot of flat penetration and it meshes well with BC, stacking faster.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

I don't think it would be a terrible idea, but it doesn't really suit my playstyle.

  • I don't have much AD (BC is primarily for teamfight utility, and that last 10% cdr), so my AAs aren't really doing much damage.
  • I don't have any other AS, so I'm not getting as much out of wits end as I could be.
  • I'll do significantly less damage against tanks.
  • My playstyle is "Poke a lot from range with ult + liandrylai." Void staff makes that way more effective, especially vs tanks (think of them like AOE nid spears on a lower CD -- the ratio/burst isn't as high, but they can easily do that kind of damage, over time.)
  • BC is primarily in my build because an aoe liandrylai + armorshred from gatling gun is already pretty nice, and the extra armor shred allows my adc to dominate even more.

In the end, I'd probably get more single target damage, but the rest of my playstyle/build is all about that aoe.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

I think Black Cleaver being week compared to Youmu's Ghostblade is a sign of Ghostblade being overtuned, or in my opinion wrongly tuned, rather than Black Cleaver being too weak.

However, I really like the direction you took Black Cleaver, in that it is more of a tanky option for damage rather than a core offensive item.

Quantum Weeb1 votes

This heavily hits all the ranged AD champs that still build the item. You're effectively killing champions like Quinn, Jayce and others when you nerf one of their items while making it better for those they will be facing.

097Aceofspades2 votes

Both Quinn and Jayce benefit more from ghostblade currently

Duke Anax2 votes

The only ranged champ I see it on is a tanky on hit Kayle and she would benefit from the change.

Genova Fearbane1 votes

All you're doing is slapping some more hp on it with less AD. Black cleaver is fine where it is. While I get the idea that you want to make it more oriented to tanks, it's not supposed to be a fully tank item, rather one that is bought if a tank feels he should be more offensive, usually early in game. Having a large amount of health on it would make ad tanks deal alot of damage without having too much of a trade-off in hp.

Samflash31 votes

If they add more health to Black Cleaver, I'm so gonna build it on ADC's.

Seriously, why wouldn't I?

That said, the health is way too low. It should be 250 or max 300 health.

Agidyne1 votes

Black Cleaver -> African American Cleaver

C'mon riot, so racist

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