@Meddler: Would Weaver's ultimate (from DotA) be acceptable in League or not?

darkdill··4 votes·1,406 views
Weaver

For the unfamiliar, Weaver's ultimate is as follows:

Weaver warps backward to whatever position it was in five seconds earlier--regaining the HP and mana from that time. No effect on cooldown, gold or experience.

Now, I'm not suggested that such an ultimate be in League in its exact form, but the mechanics of it sound like it'd be interesting. Warping yourself back in time a few seconds (I'd go with 2-3), resetting your position and health (if your current health is lower) to what it was at that point. Sounds like it'd be pretty handy if you got yourself hooked by a Blitzcrank.

But would it be broken? Not just in gameplay balance terms, but in terms of design, would it be a rule-breaker?

22 Comments

Old Man Teeto5 votes

I doubt Riot's code is stable enough to even attempt an implementation of such caliber.

Also, it would totally be Chronoshift for Zilean.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

I've actually been thinking of something like that for Zilean, something that could be used on a teammate or something.

doublelift fg1 votes

yea he could do it on his teammate

Verreus4 votes

It's in dota..... it's inherently broken as hell. That's how the game is balanced. Everything in it is just insanely broken, and you just pick the broken hero that counters the most broken heroes on the enemy team.

Epilogue of Life2 votes

And we're the exact opposite here lol. I predict that within a few seasons we're gonna be dealing 40 dmg with an entire rotation+ignite.

SLangedEdge3 votes

{quoted}

It's in dota..... it's inherently broken as hell. That's how the game is balanced. Everything in it is just insanely broken, and you just pick the broken hero that counters the most broken heroes on the enemy team.

Nothing is "broken' per se, you just are too used to kits from LoL that you lack some creativity and imagination. Also, if you think all the skills are broken then it must be kinda fair in that sense.

Weaver ult could be balanced by taking away alot of the champs base dmg to balance it. It prolly wont' be that exciting in LoL, u dont wanna play a champ with amazing escape but no dmg at all. Weaver is normally dealt with by stacking cc and silence (there are items like orchid that silence for 5sec) long enough to kill him before the ult.

Verreus2 votes

{quoted}

Nothing is "broken' per se, you just are too used to kits from LoL that you lack some creativity and imagination. Also, if you think all the skills are broken then it must be kinda fair in that sense.

Weaver ult could be balanced by taking away alot of the champs base dmg to balance it. It prolly wont' be that exciting in LoL, u dont wanna play a champ with amazing escape but no dmg at all. Weaver is normally dealt with by stacking cc and silence (there are items like orchid that silence for 5sec) long enough to kill him before the ult.

I played dota before lol, game is imba as fuck. MvC3 has less bs in it then dota.

SLangedEdge3 votes

{quoted}

I played dota before lol, game is imba as fuck. MvC3 has less bs in it then dota.

When the entire roster can be picked and played in various situations i think the game is in a pretty healthy state.

If it were truly broken, couldn't you just pick any 1 hero and get yourself to pro status? There are broken heroes that need to get patched up and fixed, but weaver isn't even close to one of 'em. I mean the last notable ones are sniper and troll that took huge nerfs. I dont think game health is any different from the champs here, their skills just sound more grandiose compared to the utility you get in LoL

Verreus1 votes

{quoted}

When the entire roster can be picked and played in various situations i think the game is in a pretty healthy state.

If it were truly broken, couldn't you just pick any 1 hero and get yourself to pro status? There are broken heroes that need to get patched up and fixed, but weaver isn't even close to one of 'em. I mean the last notable ones are sniper and troll that took huge nerfs. I dont think game health is any different from the champs here, their skills just sound more grandiose compared to the utility you get in LoL

I'm not saying the game is imbalanced idiot, I'm saying it's full of bullshit. sereiously, it's not about being balanced, it's about being hard counter balanced. if you cannot pick any hero and win against any other hero, the game requires not actual skill. like I said, dota has more bs in it than MvC3, and that game has zero, who will kill all three of your characters with a single combo if played correctly.

SLangedEdge3 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying the game is imbalanced idiot, I'm saying it's full of bullshit. sereiously, it's not about being balanced, it's about being hard counter balanced. if you cannot pick any hero and win against any other hero, the game requires not actual skill. like I said, dota has more bs in it than MvC3, and that game has zero, who will kill all three of your characters with a single combo if played correctly.

You literally said "I played dota before lol, game is imba as fuck."

There's no such thing as picking 1 hero to completely shut down another. There are obvious advantages, but there are many counter play routes and items to help. The game is more about strategy and positioning...your argument is similar to "i can't pick a pawn and beat a queen, fuck this game". I guess stick to checkers, its more your IQ wheelhouse.

Centuros1 votes

Well, if there was a game where you only controlled ONE chess piece, that argument would be extremely valid...

Hellpyre2 votes

In terms of design it REALLY steps on Zilean's toes. And it wouldn't work well mechanically for Zilean unless he was heavily redesigned.

Kouga1 votes

I think it would be hard to find a state of balancing it where it would feel acceptable at all levels of play. Its one of those abilities where the utility alone is so strong that it would always be strong in the right hands (re: Thresh, Blitz grab)

The biggest concern would be allowing players to reliably correct what should be lethal mistakes; getting caught out of position, ganked, or going up against a significantly stronger duelist. They can just warp back before the mistake.

There are things the could be done to balance it. There could be a delay between activating the ability and the "time warp". This meant that if the player is out of position and gets jumped on, they could still be killed in time before the player can warp out of it. This would be like a Reserve Tryn ult. With Tryn the trick is to not die for 6 seconds and then kill him when the ult ends. This way, the trick would be to kill him before X seconds so he can't get away.

Or, have it be something where it drops an item like a ward that you can destroy.

Player drops a Warp Beacon at their current location. For the next 10 seconds, the player can recast Warp to return to the Warp Beacon, assuming the same health and mana levels they had when Warp was cast. This does not reduce any Cooldowns of ability or items.

The Warp Beacon can be seen by enemy units and can be damaged by basic attacks. After 5 basic attacks, the Warp Beacon breaks, and Warp immediately goes on cooldown

That's just off the top of my head but its a way that you could have the same effect (cool time traveling ability) and if you plan it right can still be very powerful, but there is some kind of counterplay element to it, and reduces possible abuse.

There are plenty of other ways the ability could be done but that's just one example

darkdill1 votes

I imagine the proper means of preventing the user from using this ultimate would be to CC them or instakill them. A typical player will want to hold the ultimate until the last second to maximize its use, but this can backfire hard if you take unexpected burst damage.

I'd also have it warp you back 2 seconds at most. This way, you're still screwed if you're being bled out by a DoT effect like Ignite.

But that's just my opinion.

Verreus1 votes

you obviously haven't played dota, and just so you know a pawn can take a queen, it's just not easy.

SLangedEdge1 votes

I do play dota (much more than this game), and i know a pawn can take a queen (just like any hero in the dota pool can take any other one, tho it may not be easy).

I admit there are counters that make it very hard to play, hence their draft protects the most dangerous picks, which is why flex positions and supports are picked first. If you pick a broodmother into a axe, u'll have a really bad time, u can switch lanes and force him to follow u around. You may not farm very well due to this, but you keep each other busy, which is space created for the rest of the team.

Verreus1 votes

{quoted}

I do play dota (much more than this game), and i know a pawn can take a queen (just like any hero in the dota pool can take any other one, tho it may not be easy).

I admit there are counters that make it very hard to play, hence their draft protects the most dangerous picks, which is why flex positions and supports are picked first. If you pick a broodmother into a axe, u'll have a really bad time, u can switch lanes and force him to follow u around. You may not farm very well due to this, but you keep each other busy, which is space created for the rest of the team.

If it's not the warcraft 3 mod it's not dota, I'm not sure about this but I think the only original ip valve has is Half life, everything else they stole from a mod or an idie dev.

SLangedEdge2 votes

{quoted}

If it's not the warcraft 3 mod it's not dota, I'm not sure about this but I think the only original ip valve has is Half life, everything else they stole from a mod or an idie dev.

Iono if you can really say "stole"...i mean Blizzard has no claims to the mods made, just the resources they used (models and character names). I'm sure much of the champ/hero name and design changes were due to copywrite and/or appeasing the chinese fan base. Also, at the very least valve hired on the last dev/creator of dota to recreate it for them. Sure they could have redesigned the model and updated the art (i would have personally liked this), but its a pure f2p game. Its even more f2p than LoL.

(super thread topic change)

Verreus1 votes

{quoted}

Iono if you can really say "stole"...i mean Blizzard has no claims to the mods made, just the resources they used (models and character names). I'm sure much of the champ/hero name and design changes were due to copywrite and/or appeasing the chinese fan base. Also, at the very least valve hired on the last dev/creator of dota to recreate it for them. Sure they could have redesigned the model and updated the art (i would have personally liked this), but its a pure f2p game. Its even more f2p than LoL.

(super thread topic change)

(I know lol)

I never said who they stole it from. I don't care if they hired the guy.

SLangedEdge1 votes

{quoted}

(I know lol)

I never said who they stole it from. I don't care if they hired the guy.

Well you can't really say steal (at least in this situation). They don't need to pay blizzard and the 1 guy that still has claim to the game was hired. I won't begin to defend their other business practices, they could just very well steal from devs. Tho they've gained a lot of credit buy pulling their pay structure for mods. They still remain the good guys of gaming...

Verreus1 votes

{quoted}

Well you can't really say steal (at least in this situation). They don't need to pay blizzard and the 1 guy that still has claim to the game was hired. I won't begin to defend their other business practices, they could just very well steal from devs. Tho they've gained a lot of credit buy pulling their pay structure for mods. They still remain the good guys of gaming...

doesn't change the fact that they can't make an original game that is any good to save their lives.

The Aqua Snake1 votes

I think you MIGHT get your wish OP. :P

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