I just played vs a whole team of snowballing assassins, who proceeded to split push the rest of the game. Why would anyone want a meta reliant on these crazy snow ballers?
I'll take a mage/tank/fighter meta any day over assassins thank you.
WoonStruck46 votesThe difference is that nobody is rewarded for an assassin meta outside of assassins.
In a tank meta, juggernauts/ADCs are often rewarded.
In a mage meta, bruisers/assassins are often rewarded.
In a bruiser meta, supports/ADCs are rewarded.
In an ADC meta, assassins/mages are rewarded. (though assassins usually grossly overshadow mages)
In an assassin meta, nobody wins except assassins because they control the single most important aspect of the game. ADCs. In addition, they over-shadow mages to the point of mages defaulting to afk-farming support mids (Zilean, Lulu, etc) just to try to counter-act the assassins.
Llanite10 votesWrong.
In assassin meta, tanks are rewarded, utility support is rewarded, adc is rewarded and of course, other assassins are rewarded. Assassins would die if he messed up, fed or no.
In tank meta, mages are useless, support is useless, assassin is useless, if there are 3+ tanks, adc is also useless. The only one getting rewarded is other tanks, and all they really do are battering into each other for 3 mins then run back to fountain (if losing).
Wimbledofy11 votesagreed with first part disagree with second. Adcs aren't useless in a tank meta since the adc will have tanks on his team to peel. Now that he has good peel he will deal the most damage since that is what his role is designed for.
Llanite1 votesIf 3 tanks charge in and you eat just ONE CC, you die and have zero dps.
Can you peel Mal, Mumu and Sej at once running towards your adc? Even if you manage to catch all 3 of them in one aoe cc, you adc can pull 4-5 hits at most, on one person, which aren't enough to kill a tank in tank meta, and there are 2 more of them.
You end up having to go 3 tanks to help peel their 3 tanks, and the lone adc has to build shitton of defense so he wouldn't die.
AbrahamBaconham6 votesBut surely you have tanks on your team to peel, no? As an adc, shouldn't you be standing behind your frontline?
Shadòw20 votesover-shadow
i see what you did there
KING 5HARK4 votesThe difference is that nobody is rewarded for an assassin meta outside of assassins.
Tanks? Tbh I'd rather have People oneshotting eachother in lane at level 6 than 45 minutes for the adc to farm up in order to get enough damage to kill tanks lategame(because nobody else does damage to anyone)
doombotMECHA15 voteswell, I'd rather play a slower game if it means that mages get to exist, which they kinda don't in an assassin meta.
ViashinoWizard26 votesThe difference between a tank meta and an assassin meta is that in the tank meta the other 6-8 players get to play the game for more than thirty seconds at a time.
Edge of Daybreak10 votesMages want a mage meta Tanks want a tank meta Assassins want an assassin meta
ADC's, Junglers and Supports are always gonna be here but I dont know enough/care enough about the support metagame to know what it entails.
The people who play those champions love their metas and people who dont hate them. Each meta has it's own pros and cons.
Nami in Bush30 votesNo. Tank meta. I do not give a single flying fuck who I play at all, but the tank meta (specifically cinderhulk) actually took skill. The players had to position correctly, they had to work as a team, not qwerujhyrduhytrdujhftgh across the fucking keyboard or right-click/afk like Jax, Yi, Xin, WW, etc etc.
63536895_DEL4 votesWimbledofy5 votesjungle isn't a type of meta. Jungle is a role like top/mid/bot. Note how you said mages tanks and assasin meta. You didn't say mid and top meta.
Aljonau1 votesMage-meta has counterplay: dodging. Tank-meta has counterplay: peeling, adcs and %damage. Asassin meta has no counterplay whatsoever, thats the problem. Season 6 meta was pretty much perfect, season 7 meta is comparable, except that rengar got olafs ulti as w and zeds passive as a scaling-bountyhunter passive, that asassins lategame got buffed and that the jungle-role has become even more important while already being the most important one in most tiers of soloq.
Tank meta is the only meta in which asassins need planning.
brisker69 votesPeople don't know what they want. They have a tank meta, they kick and scream and bitch their heads off about the tank meta. They get an assassin meta, they flail their arms and yell and bitch until riot nerfs assassins.
That is just how league operates.
There has never been a steady balance and there never will be because people will always go kicking and screaming to riot with their complaints and bitch to high hell until riot does something to change the game. Then, a different group of people will repeat the same process. This is how this game operates.
Ralanr6 votesI can't really argue against this. I made this post after being relatively salty, but you are spot on about how the forums operate.
GodSupport Katie8 votesI want a meta where there is room for all types of roles.
Ralanr5 votesThe dream.
Jeddy0177 votesWell,if mages are brok-I mean strong after their roster update like Juggernauts & Marksman were after their respective updates, then that means any roster update makes that specific class strong. This means that if Riot choose assassin as the next class for a roster update........oh Urgod no.I'm going to abandon ship the second they announce it.
But that's if Mages are OP next patch. If all the mage changes turns out to be fairly balanced besides a few outliers (which I doubt,Mages in every lane,time to play Galio) then that means Riot has learned how to do these roster updates without turning the updated champs into OP picks. In which case, the idea of an assassin update wouldn't be so terrifying.
Troll for Trump6 votesThing is it's usually not just pure assassins in general.
Mostly just this guy
the "assassin" has almost always abused tank items ever since release ekko got nerfed
has to fall back to going tanky to be significant
is more of a fighter/tank rather than glass cannon
is kinda a worser version of zed
is either useless or hyper dominant, but weak in teamfights and lategame, and has generally had a low winrate while still being annoying to play against, unlike Zed which has relatively high WR and is annoying to play against
goes Tank/Bruiser, and Riot's buffs support that style
: Uh
:Semitanky
Basically all assaassins that don't have a ton of utility or safety fallback have to buildtanky, so that leads them to abuse the tank items whenever they are dominant. Zed gets by with glass cannon because of how safe he is, Ekko just abuses the tank items as mentioned, making full use of the utility given to help an assassin like playstyle as a tool to cc with as a tank. Talon passes by too with his ult, but that has been nerfed.
Wimbledofy2 votesYasuo isn't really a tank and Talon is definitely not a worse version of zed. Talon has had a consistently higher winrate than zed in higher elos.
Voluug131 votesyeah but at whatpickrate?
The 3 diamond chumps that pick Talon know even the underside of his balls, so no wonder they inflate his winrate. Same with literally every high winrate low pickrate champion. Mains of years inflate the entire thing.
Handin Out Naps2 votesInstead of constantly talking about pickrate as if its the answer to everything you should actually look at better facts like winrate by games played.
Zed 1-5: 46.19% 5-15: 49.06% 15-50: 48.88% 50-125: 51.38% 125+: 54.44%
Talon 1-5: 48.47% 5-15: 50.02% 15-50: 51.48% 50-125: 56.13% 125+: 56.33%
It really doesn't matter how many people play Talon when after a certain point of games every player will know a champion very well no matter how many players there are. Talon is just straight up a lot more reliable than Zed after a certain point in the game. Talon has always been a more reliable choice than Zed as an assassin because of how his kit works. Look at things like Winrate by Game Length aswell, it tells the story pretty clearly.
http://champion.gg/champion/Talon http://champion.gg/champion/Zed
HazyCloud75 votesAny meta is better than the "build sunfire/IBG/visage, be unkillable for most of the game and do a crap ton of damage" that we were in post GP/Fiora nerf and are only just recently exiting with the nerfs to sunfire/IBG/maw/grasp. Tank ekko is still pretty busted post-nerf as well.
I don't want an assassin meta, but champions building straight tank and (effectively) outdamaging everybody until adcs get to late game is as obnoxious as it gets.
Voluug135 votesTank Ekko is busted because he is 2 champions in one, utility assassin is 100% badly designed cancer, the problem with the items is minor (IBG is only a problem on Ekko and Ez, and Sunfire is not a problem on champions that lack Ekko's ridiculous stickiness), they always existed, its Ekko the problem.
Kuroi863 votesPeople complained that last season games were lasting too long.
Riot gave them what they wanted.
Now they realize their mistake.
Eunson2 votesBecause an assassin has a higher skill cap then tank meta?
LatetotheRace16 votesYes, but it's such a small amount..... I don't think it matters. Lining up zed's shadow shurikens are about as skilled as assassins get. The majority of assassins right now have gap closers and lots of AOE damage.
Malicious Metal19 votesLet's be honest here, there's a certain degree of mastery/skill with every champion. Sure, Lee Sin/Azir/Zed have higher mechanical requirements but chaining CC properly, knowing how to peel, how to engage, when to fight, etc. Are crucial to succeeding with Tanks, it's more of game/strategic knowledge versus mechanical skill requirements.
Hell, I suck mechanically but playing someone like Mordekaiser to his maximum potential does not require simply knowing how to use your skills. Hell, Mechanically Morde's at the bottom of the barrel.
charcharmunro2 votesThe mechanical skill for Morde is "Walk at somebody, bash faces in. Or get kited to oblivion."
Voluug139 votesWhich means you have to rely in your mental and tactical ablities instead of muh mobility.
charcharmunro5 votesIndeed, I was hoping that was implied. He's like if Yi/Kat were slow, really, since him, Yi and Kat all can wreak huge havoc on an enemy team but they have to get going at the right time.
YCitizenSnipsY2 votesAnd then you realized game knowledge is also required on assassins as well, and things like knowing when to fight how to engage, are just as important on them as well. You just don't get to be a point and click brick wall with them.
The reason people loved the tank meta is becasue it was easier to play. Hell the face of the cinderhulk meta was Sejuani, whose ult actually rewarded you for missing it at the time.
But by all means, if it is really as black and white as you say, can't wait for your unranked to diamond stream using one of those champions.
KING 5HARK5 voteswhose ult actually rewarded you for missing it at the time.
What the fuck did I just read? Do you mean not hitting the desired person(huge splash) or did you mean not hitting anything at all(in which case, care to tell me why thats rewarding)?
RoodToob3 votesI have to agree and disagree at the same time. To perform decently as an assassin require as much skill as you just said for sure. But for Faker level Zed plays, or LB, you have to get really good at that champion and the game, and assassins have a higher ceiling (in some cases by far, in others very little) than tanks because they are squishy and have to know when to go in and out of fights perfectly to kill someone and live. Tanks also have this of course, but to a lesser degree because the tanker you are, the more mistakes you can make without dying.
Ackelope2 votesI think the meta still does, and probably will for a while, revolve around tanks. No specific role actually counters them. Assassins do damage, mages do damage, ADCs do damage, and supports CC and provide other utility. The closest thing to countering tanks there is support, to be honest. Tanks are designed to take damage, and even if one role takes down tanks faster than most others, that doesn't make them a counter. Tanks are still very strong, and they take teamwork to kill, CC and damage. Tanks can 1v1 almost anyone in the game, unless they're behind or building improperly.
My point of view on the situation might be a little skewed, but that's how I see and interpret it...
Ralanr4 votesDPS counters tanks. Enough sustained damage will kill a tank and many sustained damage dealers do it quickly.
Ackelope3 votesIt is the thing that deals with tanks the best. However, as I previously stated, that doesn't make it a counter. Plenty of the time tanks can shrug off damage from a couple of threats for quite some time, and while assassins are even less powerful against them, tanks still do what they're supposed to do; absorb damage. They don't have any specific damage counter for a reason, they're literally designed to be killed more slowly... and i just destroyed my own arguments of tanks being the meta and constantly strong.... welp, thanks for your time.
Ralanr2 votesExcept they do have a specific counter, DPS. DPS deals with them the best because they counter them.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying, but this is how I see it: Tank beats burst, burst beats DPS, and DPS beats tank.
Ackelope1 votesWhat I'm saying is that DPS doesn't really beat tank. I'm saying it's the most effective type of damage we have to deal with it, but tanks still tend to fare pretty well against dps characters unless it's a very prolonged setting, in which case everyone fares badly against dps characters. It's entirely possible the people I see/me don't build properly to deal with tanks, but I do see people say the same thing pretty frequently.
Ralanr3 votesHonestly I have similar feelings towards tanks supposedly countering burst. Sure a tank may survive a combo, but they will not have the ability to survive the combo again after it comes up in my experience. So they need to punish the burst champion, but that punishment becomes null and void if their damage output is crap.
Now tanks (like 
, not tanky champions like 
) are pretty powerful right now due to some items and masteries making them so, but I think that more offense based champion than benefit from tank stats (the entire juggernaut class) are benefiting from this a whole lot more and that leads people to blame tanks.
And to be honest, they aren't fully wrong. Anything good for tanks is abused by tanky damage champions. 
's preseason dominance proved this very well. Course this isn't the fault of the champions (well it sometimes is) but rather new things added to it. 
wasn't a powerful pick until ADC's started showing up in every lane.
A part of me wants tanks to be reworked before assassins as there are too many tanks that feel more item dependent for a role that isn't suppose to grant you a lot of cash. Even 's health stacking doesn't mean shit if he can't buy items to help support his defenses. But cheaper defensive items can lead to tanky damage champs abusing those items for more straight power. Or leading to assassins building tanky because the damage from everyone else is too crazy.
I feel we are in a crazy damage race right now. The damage stats just increase so much that the bare base states don't seem to work well against it. The sorcery mastery probably amps up level 1 abilities beyond what the base level one defenses are used to, leading to an increase in snowballing (and even then I might be wrong since sorcery existed before I think).
Plus tanks need to do damage for minion clearing and jungle clearing (as someone who likes tank junglers, they suffer a lot when they can't clear well). So nerfing their damage just makes it harder for them to be tanks as the game goes on.
Granted I am a tank main (specifically , but I also like 
and 
(who was nerfed so hard that champion.gg doesn't even have her listed in jungle or support and has a 47% winrate in top)) so I am most likely biased. I try to see through my biased though.
Snowplosion1 votesAssassin meta. Why do people still think half way through the season it is an assassin meta. The best top laners are tanks the best junglers are tanks and the best supports right now hard cc/peel. Getting blown up by tank Ekko isn't fun but I mean it is not the assassins being opressive right now.
Voluug132 votesEkko in particular gets to be balanced as an ''utility sustained damage assassin'' which is why he gets to build tank and do damage: he has ridiculous CC and was made to be tanky... with an assassin's mobility.
Snowplosion2 votesIt's stupid but he isn't an assassin. Right now it is a meta where the tanks that can do the most damage win, so Ekko, Maokai, and Nautilus are fucking everyone right now.
Voluug131 votesMao and Nautilus have always done damage?
The difference is that they have a burst of CC instead of being able to glue themselves to an enemy, on top of having actually way less sustained damage that Ekko does.
PROJECT Katarìna1 votesId rather vs a fizz leblanc and zed in the same lane rather than lulu any day completely cancerous.
DrDiaga4 votes[{quoted}](name=God of Ascension,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vV90TuLf,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2016-04-30T16:39:39.966+0000)
Id rather vs a fizz leblanc and zed in the same lane rather than lulu any day completely cancerous.
Lulu lane us meh. She has so.e good utility and poke but her base and scalings are nothing impressive.
Voluug133 votesYeah Lulu is only good at not dying and tilting you into tryharding kills.
Play the passive farm game, outscate her by minute 20, win.
D3m37r11 votesPeople want a tank meta because it doesn't matter how much u fk up early. When the game stalls out so long , everyone gets 6-slotted. In the cinderhulk meta there was no reason to pick anyone that wasn't a late game champ . Winning early meant almost nothing.
KETSU02 votesthis sums up why i hate tanks with a passion, there little to no reprecaution to picking them and it feels like you were losing from the second the game start. and not to mention how extremely forgiving it is to make mistakes on them as opposed to assassin where if they make 1 small fuck up in an assassination they die and the target lives . you my friend deserve an up vote.
