I think Draven is horribly designed

Bronze II Yasuo ·May 15, 2017·8 votes·1,870 views

Why?

Because ADCs damage DON'T fall off at any point of the game, they get stronger as the game goes on and are the best with six items. "Oh but Draven is immobile" yes this is true, but when Draven snowballs, he snowballs quite hard and gets bonus gold from his passive, why is he allowed to be strong at all stages of the game? Bullies you out of lane then two shots you late.

Seems like the only way you can win against him is to to pay your jungler for a tent, and ask for other roles to pick something with high CC. I no one really gives a shit about Draven but his design is honestly so dumb.

27 Comments

LostFr0stMay 15, 20177 votes

I think the opposite. His design is smart since he telegraphs where he is going to be, which makes it easier to land aoe cc on him (especially during teamfights). People need to look less at Draven and more at the axe indicators.

MalfectiousMay 15, 20172 votes

This, just do this...

Bronze II Yasuo May 15, 20173 votes

His axe indicators mean nothing, people already have a hard time following Orianna ball in teamfights.

junglerboy16May 15, 20172 votes

And that is where you see the distinction between lack of skill and poor design.

General awareness of your environment in the game is on you, and is not indicative of his balance in any way.

LostFr0stMay 15, 20173 votes

Please tell me you're joking. Ori ball's indicator is quite a bit less obvious, and tells you nothing about what she will for sure do (besides communicating her threat range until the next ball movement). Draven's Axe indicators do the opposite, they tell you what he'll do before he does it.

Bronze II Yasuo May 15, 20171 votes

NoI'm not bexause he'll dish out damage before you get to him and a good ADC aim general will know how to kite or stay behind their tanks.

LostFr0stMay 16, 20171 votes

He's 550 range with telegraphed movement. Force him to drop his axes and then run him down since he won't get the reset on his W.

I also highly suggest trying him out for a few games once he hits free rotation. The best way to learn a champ's weaknesses is to play them a bit yourself.

Bronze II Yasuo May 26, 20172 votes

You're not my main point he bullies people out of lane and snowballs off that without his damage not falling off.

You using his axe drop is just a poor excuse as to why "he's balanced", you can't force him to drop his axe when he chunk something you in one hit already forcing you to retreat.

LostFr0stMay 26, 20171 votes

Draven wants you to retreat. He wants you to fear him. He wants you to run. Yeah, sure he chunks you--then what? He walks to his axe to catch it and reset his W to chase you. If he doesn't get that axe caught he doesn't reset Q or W, and then has no speedup or damage. He's stuck there; a sitting duck until his Q comes back up.

Seriously, just try him out when he's on free-week next time. It'll help you beat him, I promise.

JackMcSnipeyzMay 15, 20172 votes

He does fall off, falling off isnt just about raw numbers of damage. Draven doesnt scale well with attack speed, he has to juggle his axes, they are his only source of damage, that is a cap on his DPS, he cant juggle the axes as fast as he can attack. His range is very medicore, that means late game any hyper carry can burst him from longer range, when they have much higher attack speed and crit.

Early game, when the enemy adc has no attack speed or crit, Each draven's axe hurts a lot, later game, you can out heal his damage

Bronze II Yasuo May 15, 20171 votes

ADCs damage don't fall off at all, what kind of joke is this.

His range is fine with RFC.

JackMcSnipeyzMay 16, 20172 votes

Draven has to juggle his axes, because of that, he has a cap on how fast he can auto attack with his empowered AA (his only real damage ability). Other adc's dont have that artifical cap, they can auto attack as fast as they can and usually have spells to help them kite or survive, draven doesn't.

Of course, if you let him snowball he'll outscale everyone and reach "lategame" faster, but if you dont feed him in lane and gank or catch him alone, he's ez pz

PermabannedGarenMay 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He does fall off, falling off isnt just about raw numbers of damage. Draven doesnt scale well with attack speed, he has to juggle his axes, they are his only source of damage, that is a cap on his DPS, he cant juggle the axes as fast as he can attack. His range is very medicore, that means late game any hyper carry can burst him from longer range, when they have much higher attack speed and crit.

Early game, when the enemy adc has no attack speed or crit, Each draven's axe hurts a lot, later game, you can out heal his damage

This is accurate.

Draven's raw damage does not fall off, but his safety does. He has the same range as Vayne but with less tools to keep him alive and with worse itemization.

IA9hRfpP5qMay 15, 20172 votes

Syndra whats a draven? Yasuo what's falling off ?? Riven whats mana? Camille extremes are easy, its the balance that is difficult

undesirable teamMay 15, 20171 votes

and if he gets behind he does nothing

Bronze II Yasuo May 15, 20172 votes

If he gets behind he can still 1v1 a squishy given if tyler1

archerno1May 15, 20171 votes

Well he has highest skill floor and skill ceiling out of all ADCs. So naturally players who are able to pull off Draven should be rewarded for it. And there arent that many who can.

MrHaZeYoMay 15, 20171 votes

I'd almost say he has one of the highest skill floors of any champion. If you want to shit damage you need to always be catching Axes while having two spinning.

archerno1May 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'd almost say he has one of the highest skill floors of any champion. If you want to shit damage you need to always be catching Axes while having two spinning.

Well Azir is probably highest skill floor champ. But Draven is close 2nd.

Magical ZoeMay 15, 20171 votes

Aurelion Sol I'd say is mechanically harder to play well than Azir but...

PermabannedGarenMay 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well he has highest skill floor and skill ceiling out of all ADCs. So naturally players who are able to pull off Draven should be rewarded for it. And there arent that many who can.

Would you use the same reasoning for Yasuo, Riven, or Lee Sin?

rework trundleMay 15, 20171 votes

Because ADCs damage DON'T fall off at any point of the game,

cough cough Corki

StandgroundingJun 25, 20171 votes

Ashe outscales him HARD tho... but she is a hypercarry

Rock MDMay 16, 20171 votes

Draven doesn't fall off because his damage gets worse.

Draven falls off because he's significantly harder to play in proper 5v5s due to his Spinning Axes dictating his positioning and how he's fairly easy to catch out and kill.

Look at Caitlyn. Caitlyn is good because, on top of the tools she has in her kit, she has range and mobility to deter a lot of offensive plays and so she doesn't need to work as hard to be effective 40 minutes in.

It's the same reason Zed falls off. Yeah he can kill a Ziggs over and over again and he has so much more raw burst than Ziggs but in an organized teamfight all Ziggs has to do is press R and Q on the enemy team while his does all the work peeling Zed off him.

l Dárius lMay 16, 20171 votes

except draven has more depth than walking backwards and not auto cancelling so...

VoraciousXMay 26, 20171 votes

Problem is most of the time when CCed unless it's a stun(and even when it's a stun) it usually happens when he's standing still, and when Draven stands still usually the axe drops right on top of him. I literally got 2 shot as an assassin getting the drop on a Draven with item 3812 item 3139 item 3193 item 3156 item 3094 item 3031 while only being able to do 50% of his health. He literally almost had as much MR as he had AD. He wasn't too squishy to physical attacks either.