Caitlyn "had her time in the spotlight"

Bronze II Yasuo ·Dec 24, 2016·47 votes·2,789 views

Gut please.

It's been nearly a year dealing with this oppressive as fuck champion. But nope her winrate drops during the mid game so it's completely fine xdddddddddddd

45 Comments

RocketRelmDec 25, 201611 votes

Well, that depends. Is Caitlyn a Sejuani or a LeeSin ?

The answer to this question'll determine her fate.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoDec 25, 20167 votes

well for the last half of last season the 3 adcs with the highest win rate and most played was Jhin Lucian MissFortune due to the broken armor pen build. they gut that and it makes auto attacking crit based champs stronger

the adc with the highest win rate right now is Twitch who has stealth, true damage, armor pen steroid but lets complain about Caitlyn

Dolph1nDec 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jGHHw8Q7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-25T01:12:01.495+0000)

well for the last half of last season the 3 adcs with the highest win rate and most played was due to the broken armor pen build. they gut that and it makes auto attacking crit based champs stronger

the adc with the highest win rate right now is who has stealth, true damage, armor pen steroid but lets complain about

Twitch has no armor pen, true damage or stealth? He has a no-reset kalista rend with camouflage and he's super immobile.

KaRniVooL13Dec 25, 20162 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Twitch

Twitch's basic attacks each Poison icon poison his target with a Deadly Venom stack, dealing 6 / 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 true damage over 6 seconds, stacking up to 6 times for a maximum 36 / 72 / 108 / 144 / 180 true damage over the duration.

ACTIVE: Twitch becomes camouflaged for a duration after 1 second, gaining 10% bonus movement speed while stealthed and gaining bonus attack speed for 5 seconds upon becoming breaking it. STEALTH DURATION: 10 / 11 / 12 / 13 / 14 BONUS ATTACK SPEED: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% Ambush's cooldown is reset if an enemy dies while affected by Deadly Venom.png Deadly Venom. Entering stealth cancels Twitch's current basic attack. Ambush's bonus movement speed is increased to 30% when Twitch moves toward nearby enemy champions who cannot see him.

ACTIVE: Twitch gains bonus attack damage and 300 bonus attack range for 5 seconds. BONUS AD: 20 / 30 / 40 Additionally, Twitch's basic attacks travel across their full range and skewer every enemy they pass through for the duration, dealing 20% less damage per enemy hit (down to a minimum of 40% damage) These attacks apply on-hit effects to all affected enemies and can Critical strike icon critically strike against each individual target.

why not exactly a arm pen steroid the damage passes through champs so it is in effect a version of armor pen

chipndip1Dec 25, 20162 votes

That isn't armor pen. It's piercing. -_-

KaRniVooL13Dec 25, 20161 votes

arm pen armor piercing what da fuk ever ... its similar

but ok MR FUKIN TECHNICAL

LemurKickDec 25, 20161 votes

It's not even close at all

Maligaro SpikeDec 25, 20161 votes

dude are you serious? Armor piercing means the autos goes through people instead of stopping on hit [zombie-brand-facepalm]

RavenMagusDec 25, 20161 votes

Twitch is honestly pretty bullshit right now but his deadly venom isn't really something that matters that much. His stealth is quite a big deal.

KaRniVooL13Dec 25, 20161 votes

but there are post after post about Caitlyn Vayne not Twitch kinda seems stupid if you ( the community ) wants to cry about adcs why not start with the one who is the biggest issue ?

RavenMagusDec 25, 20161 votes

I mean, I agree, but personally I actually just think it's a problem with ADCs in general, and those just happen to be some of the most oppressive of the bunch. I think there's a problem when the best assassin in the game is an ADC.

KaRniVooL13Dec 25, 20161 votes

well they get protected all game, build some of the best damage items in the game how would they not take champs down? that is what they are designed to do

RavenMagusDec 25, 20161 votes

They're supposed to be sustained damage threats, and I'm actually pretty okay with that. There does need to be a way to kill tanks after all.

But then their damage gets so incredibly high that they are not only sustained damage threats but also burst damage threats. That's when Twitch starts being a problem - when he pops out of stealth and three shots you in under a second.

KaRniVooL13Dec 25, 20161 votes

any fed adc with items can 3 shot

RavenMagusDec 25, 20161 votes

That is true, but only one of them has long term stealth that allows him to pop up from anywhere without warning.

Tik115Dec 25, 20161 votes

Twitchs issues are an Item issue

Caitlyns issues are Kit issues

yoshi2790Dec 25, 20161 votes

Twitch 's ultimate Gives him all his power, which is a kit issue.

Tik115Dec 25, 20161 votes

Except that power was never overwhelming till late game (as it should being a hypercarry) back before the ADC itemization changes

Old Twitch built BOTRK and Ruuans which gave him alot of attack speed but zero crit which meant the power his ult gave was weakened by its lack of crit

Now with IE Ruuans being basically the go to items he now has crit in the mid game giving him all the power

Which makes it an item issue.

yoshi2790Dec 25, 20161 votes

Not really, as it scales with a stat in the game, it's a kit issue.

Tik115Dec 25, 20161 votes

You are completely missing the point. if it was a kit issue then no matter what the items he builds it would still be a problem (See; Ekko, Pre-rework+Pre-gutting Poppy), as shown before the ADC update, hell go as far back as his VGU he was NEVER a problem, however when the ADC items got changed and the armor pen build got nerfed he suddenly becomes an issue? how is it that after over 2 years of VERY minor changes (no seriously look, a few Mana tweaks and slight changes to stealth duration/activation is pretty much the only big ones) he became a problem? Because Twitchs problem was that he needed attack speed for his passive and Ruuans to get it onto multiple people but he also needed his crit meaning he wouldn't get an IE till 3rd or 4th item which delayed that massive power, now he gets them 1st and 2nd its made him a problem which points to an item issue, not a kit issue.

ÇhåryzårdDec 25, 20164 votes

Tbh I think just doing some work on her traps would really help.

Some suggestions I've seen:

-Cut their duration while under turret, they last way too long and it is way too oppressive under turrets. Stuff like shaco boxes and jhin traps are revealed and can be destroyed, and nidalee traps don't root you, but having multiple traps that not only root you, but apply a headshot which I've seen half health people is way too much.

-Don't allow her to place traps directly under people

-Make them targetable, although that might make them completely useless. They're a problem but they should still do something

-Maybe reduce the damage from trap-caused head shots? The only way to get rid of the traps is to step on them, and you can't step on them if you're reduced to half health from the headshot she gets. It's way too much, no adc should be able to half health the other adc with 1 ability early in the game. Like maybe reduce the damage 25% or something? Idk I'm not good with numbers but something THAT oppressive should NOT do the amount of damage it does early in the game

DarkRitualDec 25, 20161 votes

I think a start would be either cutting her range on trap laying, or force a slightly higher max distance between traps. If she can't lay them as far away, she can't sit outside turret range and zone the area off, she needs to first push your team back behind it and get under it herself. If she can't completely lock off a jungle path, she'll need to be more strategic in placing, to make the enemy waste time going around them.

Another option to go is to change max trap count from 3/3/4/4/5 to 2/3/3/4/4 (I think is preferable to 2/2/3/3/4)

RavenMagusDec 25, 20163 votes

-Don't allow her to place traps directly under people

Oh my gosh yes please

Literally the worst part about her IMO. People complain about the cancer turret siege, or the hidden traps behind towers, and I definitely get that. But nothing's worse than getting hit by a Morgana snare or Alistar's knockup and having her pop a trap right beneath you, making sure you get auto hit by the extra snare and insane trap damage.

And that's not even counting how Caitlyn's mere presence in a game makes Zhonya's a literal death trap.

Reducing the damage would be okay too. It would make it a bit more bearable if they didn't do 1100+ damage late game.

LeetriDec 25, 20166 votes

I mean, every single piece of CC in the game can be chained. How is Cait placing a trap under you any different than say a Nautilus sitting next to you waiting for the CC to wear off so he can use his? To me it sounds like the actual issue is the extra damage she gets from hitting trapped people, not that she can chain CC like everyone else.

MelledoneusDec 25, 20161 votes

It would be fine if the CC wasn't tied to a giant extra range stackable crit that grants true sight.

RavenMagusDec 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

To me it sounds like the actual issue is the extra damage she gets from hitting trapped people, not that she can chain CC like everyone else.

Honestly, yes, that is a huge part of it - Cait traps give her a free, long range headshot that destroys half your health bar in one hit. That's part of the reason they're so horrible to play against now. I just assume that Riot's never going to back down from the rework that's giving her insane headshots on trapped targets now.

SociopathFriendDec 25, 20163 votes

Draven Can use his stand-aside as you're CC'd Jhin Can root you as you're CC'd Jinx Can throw traps under you just like Cait Anyone can chain CC- Cait does not deserve to be specially punished for doing so.

ÇhåryzårdDec 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Can use his stand-aside as you're CC'd Can root you as you're CC'd Can throw traps under you just like Cait Anyone can chain CC- Cait does not deserve to be specially punished for doing so.

The big difference is, they don't get an applied passive that half healths you pre 6 from that cc, their cc doesn't last as long as hers (except for Jhin traps, but the actual thing that roots you is something in which you can dodge. It's a skillshot), and overall it is not as oppressive

You can't really compare them

hallfroDec 25, 20161 votes

I agree that you can't compare them, but not because Caitlyn's is SO STRONG.

Jhin's traps are invisible, targetable, apply a slow, explode after a delay, give him vision of you, and can be chained well with his W, which isn't too hard to dodge.

Caitlyn's are visible, untargetable, root you, increase her auto range against you for one auto attack, make her next auto against you do a ton more damage, chain well with her Q and E, and give her vision of you.

Both of them have clear differences, and are designed to do very different things. It'd be unfair to try and say one is stronger than the other, and thus, one champ needs to be nerfed.

warmcorntortillaDec 25, 20164 votes

All these qq adc threads are so boring. Her winrate doesn't drop during the midgame, her ability to compete in any serious way with any other adc that's not in dumpster tier is what drops.

You win lane, then get roamed on while you're weak and do no damage. I've been playing Cait since before her mini-rework as pretty much my only adc, and while the traps might need a nerf, she's NOT that OP OP, she's just not getting shit on by better adcs anymore. The only reason that these champs (cait, jinx, twitch) are coming back into the meta is because they nerfed armor pen adc builds. 'Oppressive' does not mean op. 'I don't know how to play against them/refuse to play champs that are good into them' does not mean op, either.

She has a solid 15 minutes of uselessness unless she gets ultra fed, which I would go so far as to say is her lane opponents' fault, not the champion's.

Brain Errör 404Dec 25, 20162 votes

Try telling that to all the Vayne QQers.

TimerClockDec 25, 20163 votes

Another adc to gut ...? Come on... She's a bully yes, but that's her identity! And the cooldown on her traps is huge early game. Caitlyn can only punish you if you over extend and go in her space or if you walk on a trap (If you do and get killed, I mean, you deserved to die...). If you can manage to fight her in your range and you're in your minion wave, you'll kill her easily. Why? She won't be able to land her net and combo you to death. Simple solution to a simple problem! :)

GayFluffyUnicornDec 25, 20161 votes

Funny. Back when Zed was actually a viable option i also told adc mains that when they farm solo on a lane and get killed 1v1 you deserve to die. Adc mains downvoted me to -10+ because somehow they must be able to 1v1. So don't tell me those traps are okay or not cancer. I just played her four games straight eventhough i don't play adc at all and her traps ARE opressive and need a significant nerf. Vayne btw too. No adc is gutted. All adcs were busted, arpen adcs got nerfed so the busted AS/crit champ are left.

Genocide VictimDec 25, 20162 votes

Bro, adcs are irrelevant. They all need massive buffs to bring them in line with other champions.

Maligaro SpikeDec 25, 20161 votes

lul

DengedenDec 25, 20161 votes

She was p/b for a very short period, yes. Just like Sej was [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

AkabaneKunDec 25, 20161 votes

She has CertainlyT seal of approval.[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

yoshi2790Dec 25, 20161 votes

Caitlyn currently has 49.47%, from 1,399,191 games With those statistics she has the 42nd highest winrate.

that's not alot

source: http://euw.op.gg/statistics/champion/

MunchCrunchLunchDec 25, 20161 votes

op.gg is the least reliable source of winrates on the internet.

try champion.gg

Maligaro SpikeDec 25, 20161 votes

lolalytics is better since it takes in account up to 20.000.000+ games opposed to 2.000.000+ of champion.gg

Maligaro SpikeDec 25, 20161 votes

lolalytics lists her as 51% winrate with 30% playrate over 30.000.000 games in platinum+

only adc played more than her is Ezreal with 33% playrate.

That's definitely strong

The TrentDec 25, 20161 votes

maybe make it so caitlyn can trap things like daisy, tibbers, maokai sapplings, shaco boxes, etc. That way so they're easier to deal with, but in return, Caitlyn might be able to save herself from that Maokai baby.

Baby GhoulDec 25, 20161 votes

Riot needs to do something about the Zyra and Caitlyn combo.

One of them is bad enough, but both is complete hell. I'm so tired of seeing her or both of them almost every game. There is nothing to enjoy from that lane and at best it becomes boring.

CowseedDec 25, 20161 votes

She wasn't bad all year. When Sivir 'had her time in the spotlight' ie was okay enough for everyone to spam her Caitlyn was considered trash tier almost. Now because the better adcs are out of the spotlight you are all begging for a gut on a champ that everyone could have dealt with before.

But yeah sure. She's popular and everyone (or just the people who like asking for nerfs) is saying she's a headache. When she get's nerf the only thing that's going to happen is the champion that she counters is gonna go up in play rate people get tilted and think they are OP because they are popular and the cycle continues.