The counterplay to divers is focusing them down once they jump into the enemy team

Malicious Metal·Jan 24, 2017·22 votes·1,957 views

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a7/Courage_of_the_Colossus_mastery_2017.png/revision/latest?cb=20161031094649

And you know what's happening next patch?

The shield is getting flattened by the nerf hammer.

40 Comments

Sahn UzalJan 24, 201721 votes

Keystones shouldn't make up for a Champion's weakness. Remember when building Trinity Force second on Vi was a risk because you could get blown up? CoC: Hold my beer.

Marksman with a shitty laningphase? Warlords: Hold my beer

~~Building full tank would leave me with too little damage on High damage characters?~~ ~~Grasp and Fervor: Hold my beer.~~

How long will Warlords last? I'm curious to find out.

RalanrJan 24, 20172 votes

It shouldn't make up for weaknesses without sacrificing a decent amount of power if you go that route imo.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 25, 20171 votes

They shouldn't completely negate a weakness. However, (IMO) they should provide some insurance against it.

CotC on a diver isn't a big deal provided it's balanced. A few seconds of a shield for your single CC. In theory, it should give you a few seconds to either get out or get the job done.

However, because of how strong it is, it just makes divers able to survive the diver 9/10 times.

Big LincolnJan 24, 201713 votes

you know what should happen?

direct nerfs to the 2 biggest offending divers

RalanrJan 24, 201711 votes

But what if CoTC still caused problems? Then they'd just be Sejuaniing them.

This is like Cinderhulk except nobody is having much fun.

Big LincolnJan 24, 20171 votes

it's been nerfed twice and they maintain absurd win rates despite it

LankPantsJan 24, 20177 votes

Maybe you should look at the champion you're referencing.

Sejuani is one of the main champions that should benefit from CotC right? But right now, she's bad. The same can be said for other jungle tanks.

I don't think CotC is particularly far out of line, all it needs is to be bonus HP rather than base to hit abusers. Vi and Hec are out of line.

what you deserveJan 24, 201720 votes

"Sejuani'd" refers to a time when a champion is abusing something so hard that both the champion and the abusive strategy (item, mastery, etc) get nerfed and then the champion itself doesn't get buffed to compensate. It happened to Sejuani in season 5. Of fucking course Sejuani is bad, because she's been Sejuani'd and Riot has never made up for it.

LankPantsJan 24, 20177 votes

I'm aware, I was one of the main people argueing against Riot if you go back to the 'time out of the spotlight' thread.

The thing is on champs who the mastery was intended for it's really not that insane. That was the point that I was trying to make, it's mostly just Vi and Hec abusing CotC at this point, Poppy was last patch but was nerfed back into line at least somewhat, funny how she doesn't get that consideration isn't it?

ModAcademy KaynJan 24, 20172 votes

I mean, she may be underpowered atm, but before Preseason, she certainly wasn't half bad.

Big LincolnJan 24, 20172 votes

sej is underperforming because of her slow clears making it hard to keep up and establish early leads

she's quite OP in teamfights

LankPantsJan 24, 20174 votes

sej is underperforming because of her slow clears making it hard to keep up and establish early leads

She's losing because of her weak early ganks and overall weakness to invades, she can't afford to lose a camp and she can't duel for it either, so she has no way to actually deal with invades at all.

Contrary to popular belief Sejuani has reasonably fast clears, they're not Shyvana level, but they're on par if not a little quicker than someone like Lee Sin. I can full clear the jungle at around 3:53 with no leash, that's a reasonable clear time.

she's quite OP in teamfights

And? Taric's a great teamfight support, that doesn't change the fact that he's subpar in the current meta because he can't reach that point. The simple fact is that teamfights are devalued right now, being strong in them means little, especially if that comes at a cost of getting into that fight with a lead.

WoonStruckJan 24, 20171 votes

What's the point of talking about situations that don't actually arise in game?

Teamfights 'don't actually arise in game'?

Were you dropped on your head as a child?

LankPantsJan 24, 20172 votes

Teamfights where Sejuani can have a large impact don't arise in the game. She doesn't have the early game impact to actually reach a point where her and her team can teamfight without being at a huge gold/level disadvantage. This is more what I meant, but I'd certainly agree that it wasn't super clear. I'll edit the last post to clean it up a little with a better analogy.

Either way though, teamfights are rarer, less impactful and less important in this season than they were prior. I've played more games this season already that I won without a single teamfight than I had half way through last season. It's so easy to break the game open with splitpushes and small skirmishes currently.

RalanrJan 24, 201712 votes

Hopefully this will tone down Hecarim and Vi.

xWatersJan 24, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully this will tone down Hecarim and Vi.

Then rip other champions who use it. Why can't we just nerf the two biggest abusers instead of the keystone...

RalanrJan 24, 20173 votes

Because that leads to the Sejuani effect.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 24, 20178 votes

If a champion is balanced around a keystone, then you might as well just incorporate that keystone into their kit and balance them around it. Like if Nami is REALLY strong with Rylai's, so you nerf Nami under the assumption she's going to build Rylai's... at that point you might as well just give Nami slows on her abilities. Silly example but yea. And at that point there's no reason to have masteries or items.

SinlaireJan 25, 20171 votes

you dont understand. it actually is built into Vi's kit.

Passive: Blast shield; when Vi strikes an enemy with an ability she gains a shield for 10% of her maximum health lasting for 2.5 seconds. cooldown 8-16 seconds, scales with level. That's why CotC works so well with her. it's literally just a triple down on her passive. 10% shield on hit + another 10% for every 2 champs nearby. Throw in a Steraks for 30% when she falls under a certain point and Vi is all dive and fight.

Vi was a good/mediocre jungler until CotC and new jungle. she rushed defence and did no damage, or rushed damage and blew up because blast shield is nice, not good. Now she clears jungle better than half the roster because Rito buggered the jungle again and now Vi can actually fight in team fights instead of saying "I pressed R on the thing and left again."

It's both of these that is making Hecarim and Vi strong. Both jungle changes and CotC. which is why Riot keeps changing jungle and CotC before nerfing the two. Both of them just clear much better than everyone for a better lead, and CotC works with their kit to enable them to do their jobs.

Vi and Hec aren't good. everyone else in the jungle is just too damn bad and unable to apply as much pressure as them to counter balance.

BooleansJan 24, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Hopefully this will tone down Hecarim and Vi.

Iirc the shield duration is going 4 >>> 3 and the base shield is going from 180 >>>90 at level 18. The duration is to make it more "window of opportunity" while the base amount is to make non-tanks unable to abuse it as much. Anyone who stacks health is barely gonna notice the -90 shield when its still gonna hit upwards of 600+ come late game.

Glory ln DeathJan 24, 20172 votes

The base shield is 54 at level 18, but it's per nearby enemy champion. With 3 enemies, it's only 18 weaker, with 4 it's 36 stronger, and with 5 it's 90 stronger.

Colossus is getting buffed for its intended uses.

PiVoRxJan 25, 20171 votes

Wont change shit since both insta burst you down at lvl 6.

DanjengJan 24, 20174 votes

they jump into the enemy team

The shield is actually stronger when around multiple enemies, but weaker with only a few. It's just not as powerful in laning now (and it shouldn't be a powerful trading keystone, it's for team fights).

Let's be honest CotC was broken on release. Nerfs are only leveling it down. I think it defensive capabilities is fairly on par with Thunderlord's offensive.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 24, 20172 votes

What's the problem? CoC is insanely strong right now and covers up an entire class' weakness. Deserves to be nerfed, no keystone should warp gameplay that heavily.

Blue Moon WolfJan 24, 20171 votes

Not to push the Diver update agenda... but a Diver update could help solve some issues with facing Divers >.>

RalanrJan 24, 20171 votes

Well yeah, but a vanguard update could potentially fix the durability problem.

Blue Moon WolfJan 24, 20171 votes

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4xmeb6Ei41qj3ir1.gif#hug%20cat%20gif%20500x270

JVlasterQuinnJan 24, 20171 votes

Its weaker even in teamfight, only person who can really use it to the maximum is AoE crowd control user in a perfect ult and it mean 5 man ult. Think of Amumu,Malphite etc. Otherwise its not even worth to take any longer.

Baron of BreadJan 24, 20172 votes

The shield strength is based on how many enemies are nearby (large range on that nearby), not how many you hit with your cc.

SadKillJan 24, 20173 votes

If you actually look at the numbers with the nerf, you'll have almost the same as the current shield amount when three enemies are nearby and a little bit more than the current shield amount as live when 4 or 5 enemies are nearby. So, more or less, as long as you're ulting or cc'ing with three enemies nearby you'll be getting close to the same shield amount.

This happens because the base 3-54 shield is per person as well as the 5% per person (so 9-162 with three people and so on). Instead of the flat 10-180 and 5% per person shield in 7.1

Wînter FoxJan 24, 20171 votes

It's not even worth it for Amumu, Malph, Sejuani, etc. Why would they need a 3 second shield when their stun lasts 2 seconds?

Cotc is now useless

SadKillJan 24, 20172 votes

In the case of Amumu, your bandage toss only stuns one person, so engaging with that, you'll get a 3 second shield to shrug of the damage from the teammates of the one you stunned, letting you have more time to set up or call of using your ult. As for abilities like Malph and Amumu ult where you (want to) cc everyone it is certainly less effective.

Glory ln DeathJan 24, 20171 votes

The shield is getting buffed for its intended uses, though... 20% increase to the base amount if there are 4 enemies nearby, and 50% increase if there are 5. With 3 enemies, it's only a 10% decrease to the base amount.

The shield is weaker in duels and small skirmishes, but is stronger in teamfights. Basically, it will tone down early duels and ganks, but make its users a bit stronger in teamfights.

RalanrJan 24, 20171 votes

How many seconds is Sion's RQ combo?

Glory ln DeathJan 24, 20171 votes

If he hits both at full power, a 4 second stun.

RalanrJan 24, 20171 votes

So effectively it is going to expire before he finishes the perfect combo.

Glory ln DeathJan 24, 20171 votes

Even before the duration nerf, it would have expired at the same time. But, let's be honest - how often have you hit more than 2 or 3 people with a fully charged (4 seconds of charging) Sion ult? There will be at least 2 or 3 people left over to retaliate while you wind up your Q.

Twitch ChatJan 24, 20171 votes

Rengar is the most oppressive diver in the game and he isn't going to be touched at all by the patch. The only thing that might be bad for rengar is people will be encouraged to build shitty lethality items on him now that they got buffed.

PiVoRxJan 25, 20171 votes

Rengar is considered assassin and just got a (failed) update.

Twitch ChatJan 25, 20171 votes

I know rengar is in theory an assassin but when the main difference between an assassin and a diver is whether your ability to survive depends on elusiveness or raw defensive stats it's hard to not call rengar a diver. Battle roar's heal is one of the best durability skills in the game and his optimal build path involves cleaver and 3 defensive items.