@meddler can you discus with us what was the obstacle that made Darius rework on "hold" ? please

5 Stacks GG·Mar 4, 2015·25 votes·34,204 views

I really HATE how Darius as been left and I think he should get his rework asap because he is the only champ that didn't only get nerfed with numbers but got his own identity changed, he just feels awful to play for so long now...worst than urgot..

Can we get an updates on whats coming for him or just talk about him so I know something will be done someday?

Edit: Darius does not have mobility or innate tankyness as a trade off for his full reset ultimate but now he doesn't have it anymore so I think a rework would be awesome

69 Comments

RiotMeddlerMar 4, 201550 votes

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value). What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks. We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary. We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

KeevalroyMar 4, 20154 votes

While we wait for the Darius rework, would you mind giving Revive back since you really had no reason and gave no context for removing it? Maybe popping into one of the threads about it to talk to us about it?

DognoliaMar 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

While we wait for the Darius rework, would you mind giving Revive back since you really had no reason and gave no context for removing it? Maybe popping into one of the threads about it to talk to us about it?

beyond newbies who were just starting out, revive has really only been used by people who wanted to intentionally troll in games. it's an outdated spell that no one uses these days outside of that.

KeevalroyMar 5, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maggie Lacivi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vOWcOoEd,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-03-05T02:11:19.499+0000)

beyond newbies who were just starting out, revive has really only been used by people who wanted to intentionally troll in games. it's an outdated spell that no one uses these days outside of that.

You mean like Clarity and Clairvoyance? I may be wrong, but I could have sworn they were staying in the game despite also having an incredibly low pick rate.

not a starburstMar 5, 20152 votes

They're not hanging around for long.

UberNatMar 4, 20152 votes

Can his pull be fixed in the next patch ( or soon ) please

Here is a thread I made about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/2veeds/please_fix_darius_pull_it_is_not_fair_to_play/

Here is a video on how it used to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xLjXMeJQk

Here is how it is currently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiEAwgFHW4

It really is an unfair mechanic that has been there for a long time now.

FafliXMar 6, 20152 votes

Flash is a blink. It is instant. Trist E is a dash, it will get canceled by pulls. That is how this game works. It was always like this.

UberNatMar 8, 20151 votes

You are 100% wrong. It is glitched for flash as well.

FafliXMar 8, 20151 votes

I flashed a Darius E just a few days ago. It works just fine.

5 Stacks GGMar 5, 201526 votes

OMG YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HAPPY YOU JUST MADE ME THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

KingsgraveMar 5, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value). What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks. We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary. We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

Darius has the core issue of 1) you can't duel him because of his W 2) you can't escape because of his W and E 3) he bursts you if you get near him and 4) he whittles you down if you aren't killed by the burst with massive DoT.

He has literally everything a melee needs to murder other melees. Its crazy how overloaded he is.

5 Stacks GGMar 5, 201520 votes

a melee that counter melee isn't fine? why can't tons of ranged counter melee AND counter tons of ranged too is fine?

Darius isn't even overloaded this word is used way too much for no reason

KingsgraveMar 5, 20155 votes

{quoted}

a melee that counter melee isn't fine? why can't tons of ranged counter melee AND counter tons of ranged too is fine?

Darius isn't even overloaded this word is used way too much for no reason

He destroys Melee without counterplay. Countering and Absolutely destroying people without counterplay are used synonymously when they shouldn't be.

Gnar beats most Melees because he has an inherent advantage against them. Darius beats most because his kit was designed to do so without fail.

5 Stacks GGMar 5, 20159 votes

meddler said his lanning phase ult isn't gonna be changed, why are you complaining?

BorigradMar 5, 201510 votes

So Darius doing what he was designed to do, be a strong duelist against other Bruisers and tanks isn't ok. But Gnar or Lissandra being amazing against Bruisers and Tanks is ok? Even though they were designed to do something else entirely and usually end up destroying ADC's as well with their amazing initiation tools. This is why i love Gameplay and Bronze.

Think about what you just said.

KingsgraveMar 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

So Darius doing what he was designed to do, be a strong duelist against other Bruisers and tanks isn't ok. But Gnar or Lissandra being amazing against Bruisers and Tanks is ok? Even though they were designed to do something else entirely and usually end up destroying ADC's as well with their amazing initiation tools. This is why i love Gameplay and Bronze.

Think about what you just said.

Darius was designed to straight up always win against Melees, not be "strong duelist"

Liss and Gnar are doing what they are supposed to do. Just because they are ranged doesn't make this any less true.

BorigradMar 5, 20157 votes

A lot of melee champs can Duel Darius, but sure.

SpecterVonBarenMar 5, 20153 votes

Such as? And I'm not being snarky, I genuinely want to know who I should be using to make the bastard cry.

Jimmy TohsakaMar 5, 20154 votes

Well I know Irelia can duel with Darius, probably Riven too, not too sure though.

Raid Boss MordeMar 5, 20152 votes

Mordekaiser can! I've never had trouble with Darius as him :D

Mordekaiser is melee, but he's also a mage. I'm not sure if you would count him!

Focus TeemoMar 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Such as? And I'm not being snarky, I genuinely want to know who I should be using to make the bastard cry.

Here's a couple good ones for you(doesn't include ranged champs).

Tryndamere Nice ultimate... it would be a shame if i had 5 seconds of immortality to completely ignore it. Jax Got 3 items.. gg Pantheon Spear, Spear, Spear, Spear, Spear, mana pots, Spear, Spear, Spear, Spear, Ignite and heartseeker strike... GG not even trying. LeeSin Do i even need to state how this works? Lee's early game is so cheese, he could start a cheese factory. Zed Poke, Poke, Poke, Poke, Poke, Poke, oh you pulled me? Shadow away then Poke, Poke, Poke, Poke, AND all in for my kill easy gg.

Then there's always Fun Police Shen for the lols...

JunkοMar 5, 20152 votes

Yorick, Pantheon, Tryndamere, Jax, Kayle(if she counts)

Focus TeemoMar 5, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Darius was designed to straight up always win against Melees, not be "strong duelist"

Liss and Gnar are doing what they are supposed to do. Just because they are ranged doesn't make this any less true.

Darius will always win against melee champs... you know except except like half of the melee roster.

Focus TeemoMar 5, 20153 votes

Just dodge Liss ult... it has counterplay i swear(Please note that i'm being sarcastic)!

Nice to see you and Charles Barklius from the old boards btw.

BorigradMar 5, 20152 votes

Just tilt her.

Champion SkinMar 5, 20152 votes

Just get a tank to be "out of position" and get Lissandra ult him/her and then she has now engaged for your team

BeatzBoyFTWMar 5, 20152 votes

Yorick : You're so cute

AkeneroMar 5, 20151 votes

Thing is... Darius is difficult to build against, if you try to go armor, he has innate penetration. Going MR to weaken the bleed just makes him kill you with other attacks If he goes tanky, he STILL has the armor penetration to keep him deadly. And ffs, his kit is PERFECTLY designed to ignore build paths vs him, and unless he messes up on his ult (rarely happens) he becomes unstoppable because he can farm with massive waveclear... Let's narrow this down some shall we? Potentially difficult to build against for reducing damage: Akali Corki Darius DrMundo Evelynn Ezreal Fizz Gnar Jax Jayce Katarina Kayle Kennen KogMaw Mordekaiser Nidalee Pantheon Rumble Skarner Teemo Thresh TwistedFate Varus Yasuo Yorick Zed How Many can be/are tanks? Darius DrMundo Gnar Jax Rumble Skarner Thresh Yorick How many have a DoT? Darius Rumble How Many are able to do executes? Darius

MaingoSevenMar 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thing is... Darius is difficult to build against, if you try to go armor, he has innate penetration. Going MR to weaken the bleed just makes him kill you with other attacks If he goes tanky, he STILL has the armor penetration to keep him deadly. And ffs, his kit is PERFECTLY designed to ignore build paths vs him, and unless he messes up on his ult (rarely happens) he becomes unstoppable because he can farm with massive waveclear... Let's narrow this down some shall we? Potentially difficult to build against for reducing damage: How Many can be/are tanks? How many have a DoT? How Many are able to do executes?

How many of those that "can be/are tanks" have a defensive steroid? ALL OF THEM EXCEPT DARIUS! ITS LIKE A TRADE OFF OR SOME SHIT.

Teridax68Mar 5, 20153 votes

It's good to know Darius is getting updated, even if it's still a ways off. One question: will you change his kiting paradigm, and if so, what general ideas do you have in mind? Right now, one big problem I feel Darius has is that his power's really binary with respect to his range: anyone close enough to take damage from him will die very quickly, but he also feels like he has too few options against champions with a certain amount of range and mobility. I imagine he'll always be kiteable, but would you consider giving him more things to do against champions out of his immediate reach?

Fomorian27Mar 5, 20151 votes

While you are looking at him, is it possible to fix the bug where he can pull even when people flash? One of the biggest issues with playing against darius is how unfair it feels to play against him, and this doesn't help that.

Troy242621Mar 5, 20151 votes

May I ask if that Shaco change that used to be #1 priority is on the backburner? I was really excited but it seems like it was also put on the soon™ list.

picfluteMar 5, 20152 votes

but other things we feel are higher value).

What is nerfing Kassadin to the ground such a big priority that your balance team can't spend one hour just trying to address Darius? Or are you still trying to address the fact fighters in top lane haven't had their major overhaul.

The day Riot tackles their laundry list the whole community will have moved on

ExecutorDillMar 5, 20152 votes

Darius too OP! Why not work on shen :'(

Jolly RogeredMar 5, 20151 votes

Yea, this.

A good Daius can dunk a Shen like nothing. If you're within vorpal range you get hooked then smashed.

Focus TeemoMar 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yea, this.

A good Daius can dunk a Shen like nothing. If you're within vorpal range you get hooked then smashed.

You forget the part where Shen uses shadow dash to completely negate the pull(if he didn't just simply side step or bait apprehend in the first place), and heals off any damage taken with red pots, health regen, and the increased healing from his vorpal blade.

But he can't beat Darius in a duel you say? You're right, and hes not supposed to. You pick Shen to farm safely, outscale, and peel him off later. Which in turn makes Darius a liability to his team. Furthermore Darius will almost always push against Shen, and leave himself open for extremely easy ganks, as he has no escapes and Shen can set them up with shadow dash.

RaxistaichoMar 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value). What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks. We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary. We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

Meddler, why is it you responded so promptly to this post but you never responded to my simple questions about whether Elise would be getting any attention along with the tank junglers?

AHeroNamedHawkeMar 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value). What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks. We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary. We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

I love you

Edit: Please give this a look sometime, I'd greatly appreciate it

EDIT EDIT LOL WRONG LINK

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/FmAXTfyR-darius-rework-fixing-his-bullying-of-melees-and-making-him-actually-useful

Here we go

Final Raid BossMar 5, 20151 votes

plz make it so that darius' ult extends the period of time he can use it even if he didn't specifically kill someone with that ability, it makes no sense for you to not get the extension just because you ended up finishing them with an auto attack or a q. more often than not they end up living with a sliver of health because it's not always easy to judge whether it will be a guaranteed kill or not

EyrgosMar 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long.

What about Quinn? Sorry to hijack but I'm desperate at this point... 300 up-votes on front page for days & nothing, we've been trying to get some sort of attn for years.

HeroSaitamaMar 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value). What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks. We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary. We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

remove true damage ty.

hashinshinMar 5, 20153 votes

Darius had his E trainwrecked with nerfs and his ult obliterated over 2 years ago. He has not been competitively viable since season 2, and sat at a terrible win rate. You're just now starting to think "we might have overdone it..."

You've reworked Ryze TWICE in that time. Cass went OP, then nerfed, reworked, then overbuffed, and is OP again. Kassadin got TWO reworks since then. Your priority for fighters is basically "should we help them? ... mmm... mmm... ehh.... maaaaaybe..."

g7UAcie5s6Mar 5, 20151 votes

Major Darius player here. At least 1000 games over the course of two years. Not on NA, though.

{quoted}

Fair question, we've been silent about Darius for too long. Someday we'd like to work on Darius a bit, give him a longer combat pattern (bleed stacks higher, bigger eventual reward for 10 stacks, not as easy to get to max stacks quickly etc).

What sort of rewards? Because right now I'm happy with the true damage he has. So long as you don't remove the true damage, then it'll be fine. Don't change the way the true damage stack increase works either, 160 - 320min/max with basic stats should always be the same at 5 stacks. If you spread it out to ten stacks needed to get 320 damage, you'll fucking gut him. Don't change how the bleed works either. We all know that destroyed Draven for a while.

Maybe the more stacks he has, the more the cool down is reduced? 1/2/3/4/5 stacks is the standard 20 second recast, 6/22, 7/24, 8/26, 9/28 10 is full reset which is rewarding prolonged fights in top lane, which should also give enough time for an enemy jungler to intervene if they're near by.

That's not one of the projects we're currently working on though (not lack of desire, but other things we feel are higher value).

Good, he's not in need of a full rework yet.

What we are going to try in the short term as a result, potentially in the next couple of patches, are some experimental changes to his ult at higher ranks.

I would love to see what these are.

We removed the full reset because of how heavily it shut opponents out of lane if they died to it once. That change was needed, but came at a cost to Darius' post laning play that we think might have been unnecessary.

The same could be said for champions like Riven, Yasuo, yadda yadda, champions that have low cool downs on their ultimates. Get back to lane, their ult is back up and you get pounded on again. Darius' was different, he used to and still does punish sloppy/careless players which is a good thing.

We're going to test out ways of giving Darius more access to his ult mid to late game as a result, with potential options at higher ranks including lower mana costs, lower CD, longer recast window, possibly (note: this one's pretty experimental) a full reset at max rank etc.

That would be nice. Not really an experimental change if his ult used to have that before, though.

TL;DR: Veteran Darius player. Darius is fine if you wanna say that. He needs something to spice him up a bit. Experimental Ult changes could be fun.

Darius Woad King Out.

Michael C137Mar 4, 20153 votes

Darius is the man! Master of the DUNKS!!!! What could you possibly do to make him cooler?

5 Stacks GGMar 4, 20158 votes

a full reset

Surr20plzMar 5, 20153 votes

FULL RESET!!!! THE RETURN OF THE DUNKMASTER!!!!

chumblerMar 5, 20152 votes

Sometimes I wonder if anyone at Riot actually even does anything.

kayakninjaMar 5, 20151 votes

Personally, I think one of the biggest problems with Darius's pattern right now is that his ult doesn't do anything on assists. On the one hand I can see it, but on the other? Darius does the most damage he can if he's getting every kill in the fight, but there are plenty of reasons that you don't want him to be doing that. I wonder if they could make it more like Kat's current reset, even if they had to nerf the damage a bit to compensate.

DemothHymsideMar 5, 20152 votes

My issue with Darius is that he feels like a super niche pick; He's a good pic against other champs who aren't all that good.

If anyone top lane has range, mobility, or sustain, they're going to beat Darius unless they are incredibly bad with their champ.

This means that Darius is good again.... Fiora? Because I can't think of any other champ I've used against Darius that made my laning phase difficult.

TheLastBaron88Mar 28, 20151 votes

I love when people complain about Darius being too strong or impossible to play against. Yeah, it's oppressive and obnoxious to deal with, but far from impossible. The most aggravating thing he has to offer is his easy waveclear, which is also his harass skill, which will demolish you if you let it. Trouble is, this is as much his weakness as his strength. Try aggressively harassing a smart enemy without pushing your lane as darius. As with most lane bullies, the counterplay is typically having a jungler. That, or playing around the overconfidence they are sure to act on based upon their character choice. I frequently stomp this guy with Garen, and I think Darius is a MUCH better bruiser overall than Garen. That is, he does way more for his team, having a pull and a slow, and not needing to itemize as much into damage or penetration.