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Ranked and how lp works

ThorDoubleYoo··3 votes·1,319 views

Why does personal skill not have an impact on lp gain/loss in solo queue? The point of it is to measure a player's individual skill, not measure a team's skill; that's what ranked 5's are for.

Why do you lose the same amount of points for going 0/12/0 with 80 cs as you do for going 12/4/14 with 300+ cs? That makes no sense. Why does my performance not actually matter?

In SOLO QUEUE your own performance should matter. If I'm the only person on my team with a positive score and my teammates all fed why am I losing 20 points? What possible sense does that make? Why am I being punished if a teammate decided to intentionally feed? And I'm not talking figuratively here, I've had quite a few intentional feeders go 0/16 or so followed by -15 or a loss in a promo to show for it.

All this current system is measuring is your luck in finding 4 teammates from a pool of thousands who are competent enough to play with each other for one game. If personal performance actually mattered you'd be awarding/subtracting points more dynamically and people would be hitting their actual rating.

If there's one person doing well on his team and the rest of the team fed hard and the stats of the game all say he was playing at his current rank or above, give that person a point, don't take 20 away from him for trying his hardest to carry 4 boulders up a mountain and failing. Let him climb for **him ** playing well even if his **team ** did not.

As for the player who did weigh down the team, fed 12 kills in 14 minutes, had no kill participation and low cs, didn't buy or place wards, didn't help sweep for vision; then punish that harder, give a -30 for a terrible performance.

And no, you don't have to only involve cs or kills/deaths. The game tracks a lot of stats by default already. For example: wards placed, wards destroyed, assists, damage dealt, healing done, gold earned/spent, etc. I'm sure the game even tracks more stats, but just doesn't show it.

All these stats are tracked, but why? Does any of it actually matter? Does my kda matter? Do my wards placed per game matter? Does my creep score, my gold earned, matter? No, none of your stats actually matter. All that matters is your win/loss record, which is a boring static way to rank people in a game like this. It makes sense for a team game to rank a premade team on win/loss, but not solo queue.

Make a player's personal skill actually matter in their ranking. I've seen challenger players get stuck in platinum for extended periods of time before. Is that because they're bad? Is that because they're really platinum level and not challengers? Unlikely. I think it's because a player's skill doesn't matter nearly as much as a player's luck in finding teammates in this current system.

tl;dr The current ranking system is inaccurate, static, and punishes individuals for a team effort as opposed to making individual performance shine in _solo _ queue

Make the system dynamic, consider it strategically diversive point allocation.

I really want to hear the opinion of a Riot employee on this.

10 Comments

FyshinaTux2 votes

The answer is simple. Anyone can run around getting kills and go 14/2/xx in almost any game if they're good enough with a single champion and they play that champion over and over.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however, if you're doing this EVERY game, and you're losing consistently, then you AREN'T skilled at LoL.

Winning the game is about pushing objectives, it's about vision, it's about SOOO much more than your KDA and your mechanical skill at CS'ing. If you can't push objectives enough, and you can't win games, that's on you.

Don't get me wrong, there are games that are an exception to this... but it is NOT every single game.

Solution: Learn how to WIN League of Legends games, not how to boost your KDA.

ThorDoubleYoo1 votes

Yes, that is true that the game is objective based. However, is it not true that your own performance, reflected by your stats in various areas, plays a large role in you and your team's ability to achieve these objectives?

It's a lot easier to push a lane when a lane is a full item ahead of their opponent. It's a lot easier to secure a dragon or a baron when a team has a 10k gold lead, right? A lot of that comes from the skill of the players, which the stats reflect. And I mentioned a LOT of stats that aren't based around kda, which would reflect the less carry based roles and their influence on the game.

Now, that's all fine when reflecting a closer game where it goes to late game from two teams battling it out. I like those games, I don't mind losing those games even to a dumb mistake. Those games allow you to learn something new based on the flow of the game over time, initiations, vision wars, objective wars, etc.

But what about stomps? What about games over by 25 minutes or sooner? They're pretty common in solo queue, even in high levels of play (just watch any stream). It's highly uncommon for a game like this to have one team be entirely run over and have everyone lose their respective roles. In general it doesn't matter how well one person plays if the rest of his team is behind 8k gold by the 12 minute mark. So why is that person punished just as hard as his teammates?

It's pretty hard to contest an objective when the enemy lanes are an item ahead on 3 members of their team. You aren't going to be able to guarantee that your teammates will know how to freeze a lane, or make the proper effort to ward and keep vision controlled, or move around the map properly to split push when needed and defend when needed.

All of these factors are very important in respects to winning games, most of them are reflected by the stats of the game rather accurately, and all of these stats are ignored by the current lp system in favor of "Well did you win or did you lose? Oh you lost? -15, play better next time!"

And no, it's not 100% of games, but if a player is unlucky enough that said percentage is high enough to rank them down, then it's a poor reflection of their ability to play the game.

A player that wins their lane but winds up with a team behind by several thousand gold doesn't learn much other than "4 fed players are stronger than 1 fed player, math is power." Not even being able to learn from a game is a bad reflection of the system.

FyshinaTux1 votes

{quoted}

A player that wins their lane but winds up with a team behind by several thousand gold doesn't learn much other than "4 fed players are stronger than 1 fed player, math is power." Not even being able to learn from a game is a bad reflection of the system.

Wrong! A player that wins lane, and finds his other four teammates suffering... should learn to roam and help them out.

League isn't a game of "laning". It's not a game of "teamfighting". It's a combination of all of them (or purely objective based if you play push comps that were popular in the LCS a while back.)

If you're winning lane, there's no excuse for a loss. You can ALWAYS do SOMETHING to affect the outcome of the game if you're stomping your lane opponent.

If you're midlane, then there's ABSOLUTELY no excuse, push your lane out and roam, help the lane that's behind which, from midlane, should be both side-lanes.

If you're toplane? Well... there's a reason 90% of toplaners take Teleport. Use it.

ADC? Surely the most important person on the team doesn't need to roam at all! WRONG! If you're the ADC and you're winning lane, push it out, take the turret ASAP (if your other lanes are behind) and start roaming.

If all your lanes are losing, end laning phase early and jump to the teamfighting, staying in losing lanes across the board will just put you into a situation that gets worse and worse with each passing minute.

Bottom line? YOU, are responsible for winning your games. If you're skilled, you'll climb, if you're not, well...

ThorDoubleYoo1 votes

Oh yes, let's completely ignore the fact that the role of the picks that are snowballing matters just as much as your role when you're winning. For example if I'm lucian winning lane, but my mid lane loses hard to an akali that's farmed enough to kill me in one rotation then what's the plan to roam and have an impact there? What about that fed Irelia that has an early triforce and just dives onto me with a 2 second stun? It's not always possible to roam and come out ahead, I roam every game where I'm in the appropriate position for it, it doesn't work too well if you get one shot in the process. It really doesn't work well when your teammates aren't on the same page and you wind up with 2 players half committing to the gank while the members of the enemy team focus you down.

Sometimes games are too far gone too fast. The current system doesn't reflect who did well and who did poorly in those games. One person roaming is generally not able to make up for 4 people feeding, and not warding, and not freeze farming when behind, and pushing up too much, sometimes it's too much.

A damage carry that does less damage than a melee support in a 30 minute game should be punished harder for it, by 30 minutes that player has had more than enough time to deal damage and get involved in the game and the stats will reflect that. The stats aren't used for anything other than vanity right now, they should exist for a reason.

FyshinaTux1 votes

Irelia's Stun duration is 1 second at level 1, and 2 seconds at max rank.

If you're talking about an Irelia that has an "early" tri-force, this would be WELL before level 9, at which her first skill has JUST hit max rank.

Pro Tip: Irelia maxes W first.

So she wouldn't have a 2 seconds stun.

After that, it's taster's choice as to which you max second (between Q and E). Typically, Irelia will max E second under two main circumstances (not always this way, but it's the way I typically play Irelia):

  • If they're behind in lane, and the increased Stun duration could win them the trade

  • If the first item they get is more of an Auto Attack based item (such as BoRK) and the stun duration increase would allow more auto attacks off before the Q execute

Again, Irelia can absolutely max E second outside of the two scenarios above, but that still only gives her a 2 second stun duration at what... lvl 12?

Your argument is that of an uneducated player that is floundering for an excuse as to why they lose, instead of looking at what they can actually do to get better and win.

The onus is on you to win the game, not your teammates.

It's not the enemy's job to lose, it's your job to win.

EDIT:

On a side note, the stats aren't there for "vanity". Take a champion like Akali, she does hybrid damage, a good amount of both.

Post game lobby, you check the damage stats, and you see that she does something like 75%+ damage in magic damage, now you know to build MR against her.

If you're planning on playing her, you can discern that maybe you should go with MPen runes on her, instead of Hybrid Pen.

You can do SOO much with the stat info, they're not JUST vanity, and this was just ONE example.

Hangsterr1 votes

here something for you that everyone had heard it

"Match making will never be balance"

there you go

Rabid Husky1 votes

i can feel ya on the rage i was in silver last season and cuz im doing what i can while everyone's either not trying or purposely feeding i got pushed from silver 3 to 5 it sucks but i doubt riot would do this they like to put emphasis on team game

1 Wing1 votes

Because not every champion is played "right" by scoring kills. Maokai is best used by giving kills to other champions. Should you get fewer points for playing Maokai perfectly?

Often what really happens is hard to find out from the points. You execute yourself to take a tower extremely low. Later, minions wipe it out. That's far better than dying and giving gold to the enemy team, but much harder for a computer to judge what the advantage was there. I would rather have that player on my team, than one who took a tower died themselves, but died to the enemy team while doing so.

Just don't do dumb things. If you see your team is losing, accept that it could happen. You need to play matches where your team has an advantage, and matches where your team has a disadvantage, to grasp your skill.

ThorDoubleYoo1 votes

And as I mentioned in my post, the game tracks a very wide variety of stats over the course of the game that reflects that. I mentioned far more stats than kda that can be used.

You need to play matches where your team has an advantage, and matches where your team has a disadvantage, to grasp your skill.

Playing the game well, even extremely well where your team has a disadvantage does not equal a win. You can be the best player in the world, play perfectly throughout a game, but wind up with 4 people who can't win that game even with the best player in the world on their team, and you lose lp because the only stat the game counts is W/L.

I hardly even see the point in trying to play the game out when you wind up with teammates that are behind several thousand gold in a short period of time and continue to misposition and feed into a deeper hole (oh no how toxic of me). Those kinds of games are horrible for the current system. If you get an intentional feeder, your performance suddenly matters 0% cause that player is almost guaranteed to win for the enemy team. You get a rage quitter or a random d/c? Oh sorry you worked so hard to win your lane, good luck winning 4v5!

The current system accounts for nothing other than how lucky you are to find 4 people that can either play well enough or by some miracle will listen if you ask them to achieve a couple of tasks that will go a long way. But no, it's fine.

I'll just go lose another 15 lp to 4 random chucklefcks who can't keep from feeding a 3k gold lead in lane to their opposing role (the current system is great for toxicity too).

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