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Ranked and how lp works

ThorDoubleYoo··2 votes·645 views

Riot ignored my first post, posting again. Will continue posting until a Riot employee responds.

Why does personal skill not have an impact on lp gain/loss in solo queue? The point of it is to measure a player's individual skill, not measure a team's skill; that's what ranked 5's are for.

Why do you lose the same amount of points for going 0/12/0 with 80 cs as you do for going 12/4/14 with 300+ cs? That makes no sense. Why does my performance not actually matter?

In SOLO QUEUE your own performance should matter. If I'm the only person on my team with a positive score and my teammates all fed why am I losing 20 points? What possible sense does that make? Why am I being punished if a teammate decided to intentionally feed? And I'm not talking figuratively here, I've had quite a few intentional feeders go 0/16 or so followed by -15 or a loss in a promo to show for it.

All this current system is measuring is your luck in finding 4 teammates from a pool of thousands who are competent enough to play with each other for one game. If personal performance actually mattered you'd be awarding/subtracting points more dynamically and people would be hitting their actual rating.

If there's one person doing well on his team and the rest of the team fed hard and the stats of the game all say he was playing at his current rank or above, give that person a point, don't take 20 away from him for trying his hardest to carry 4 boulders up a mountain and failing. Let him climb for him playing well even if his team did not.

As for the player who did weigh down the team, fed 12 kills in 14 minutes, had no kill participation and low cs, didn't buy or place wards, didn't help sweep for vision; then punish that harder, give a -30 for a terrible performance.

And no, you don't have to only involve cs or kills/deaths. The game tracks a lot of stats by default already. For example: wards placed, wards destroyed, assists, damage dealt, healing done, gold earned/spent, etc. I'm sure the game even tracks more stats, but just doesn't show it.

All these stats are tracked, but why? Does any of it actually matter? Does my kda matter? Do my wards placed per game matter? Does my creep score, my gold earned, matter? No, none of your stats actually matter. All that matters is your win/loss record, which is a boring static way to rank people in a game like this. It makes sense for a team game to rank a premade team on win/loss, but not solo queue.

Make a player's personal skill actually matter in their ranking. I've seen challenger players get stuck in platinum for extended periods of time before. Is that because they're bad? Is that because they're really platinum level and not challengers? Unlikely. I think it's because a player's skill doesn't matter nearly as much as a player's luck in finding teammates in this current system.

tl;dr The current ranking system is inaccurate, static, and punishes individuals for a team effort as opposed to making individual performance shine in solo queue

Make the system dynamic, consider it strategically diversive point allocation.

I really want to hear the opinion of a Riot employee on this.

7 Comments

Jamaree2 votes

{quoted}

Why does personal skill not have an impact on lp gain/loss in solo queue? The point of it is to measure a player's individual skill, not measure a team's skill; that's what ranked 5's are for.

Because it is a team game and Riot wants you to focus on teamwork and not going off farming your KDA instead of controlling objectives and winning with your team.

Why do you lose the same amount of points for going 0/12/0 with 80 cs as you do for going 12/4/14 with 300+ cs? That makes no sense. Why does my performance not actually matter?

See above.

In SOLO QUEUE your own performance should matter. If I'm the only person on my team with a positive score and my teammates all fed why am I losing 20 points? What possible sense does that make? Why am I being punished if a teammate decided to intentionally feed? And I'm not talking figuratively here, I've had quite a few intentional feeders go 0/16 or so followed by -15 or a loss in a promo to show for it.

Because the flip side, when you are feeding.

All this current system is measuring is your luck in finding 4 teammates from a pool of thousands who are competent enough to play with each other for one game. If personal performance actually mattered you'd be awarding/subtracting points more dynamically and people would be hitting their actual rating.

See top point.

If there's one person doing well on his team and the rest of the team fed hard and the stats of the game all say he was playing at his current rank or above, give that person a point, don't take 20 away from him for trying his hardest to carry 4 boulders up a mountain and failing. Let him climb for him playing well even if his team did not.

So do you get less points if you weren't able to be as activate as other roles?

As for the player who did weigh down the team, fed 12 kills in 14 minutes, had no kill participation and low cs, didn't buy or place wards, didn't help sweep for vision; then punish that harder, give a -30 for a terrible performance.

What about the person who work hard, didn't feed, and had a good kill participation, say a support, but not as much as the ADC or jungle.

And no, you don't have to only involve cs or kills/deaths. The game tracks a lot of stats by default already. For example: wards placed, wards destroyed, assists, damage dealt, healing done, gold earned/spent, etc. I'm sure the game even tracks more stats, but just doesn't show it.

See my first point again.

Make a player's personal skill actually matter in their ranking. I've seen challenger players get stuck in platinum for extended periods of time before. Is that because they're bad? Is that because they're really platinum level and not challengers? Unlikely. I think it's because a player's skill doesn't matter nearly as much as a player's luck in finding teammates in this current system.

Yup.

tl;dr The current ranking system is inaccurate, static, and punishes individuals for a team effort as opposed to making individual performance shine in solo queue

Make the system dynamic, consider it strategically diversive point allocation.

How would you do that while making it fair for all roles, a system like this would heavily reward mid and jungles because the get the ability to roam the most and punish tops and supports because tops can only really afford to TP to roam, and supports would be robbed of the kill stat (for the most part).

Telegraphi1 votes

It matters because the better team will win. If you are way better you can carry people who are less skilled its been shown in every game its why a ranking system exists. The people that think stats or whatever are everything to the game you are wrong. You could be 10-3 and still not help your team or do anything in fights to win them to win the team the game.

Strat2 votes

Why does personal skill not have an impact on lp gain/loss in solo queue?

Because it is literally impossible to measure personal skill in this game. CS, KDA, warding, assists, damage dealt, healing done, gold earned and so on are NOT sufficient to measure your impact on the game. This is a strategy game, not a free for all deathmatch.

Consider, for instance, a top lane Singed. He farms all day, dies 0 times, but does nothing to impact the map. Later at the end of the game he joins some team fights and gets 10 assists with his poison or something. His team loses anyway because he wasn't there to contest dragon, baron, and didn't defend any towers or other objectives. He blames the team, pointing to his score and saying he had 300 CS in 30 minutes and was 2/0/11 at the end of the game. Did he contribute to the game, though? No, of course not. He played horribly, even if he didn't die.

This is just one of many, many examples of people with "good" stats who do nothing, and there are many many examples of people with "bad" stats who have a huge impact on the game.

At the end of the day, the best way to measure performance ON average is whether or not the team wins. Sure, sometimes you'll lose when you didn't deserve to lose. On the other hand, sometimes your team mates will carry you even if you sucked balls. On average, though, if you're contributing to wins you'll win more, and that's how the ranked system measures skill correctly.

ThorDoubleYoo1 votes

Your logic is flawed on massive levels. The system can measure damage dealt to dragon, damage tanked, etc etc. The data is available to measure the things you talk about.

The only excuse Riot has is "cause it's hard to program and it won't make money." As they sit there shoving more of their own shit into their gaping maws just to spew it back out to their "valued playerbase"

Strat1 votes

Your logic is flawed on massive levels

Really? Can you explain where I've used bad logic?

The system can measure damage dealt to dragon, damage tanked, etc etc

The problem is, how do you weight all of this fairly? How do we know what objectives have the most impact? How do you know there isn't some unique style of play that won't be accounted for with these stats and yet will still impact the game?

The data is available to measure the things you talk about.

No, it doesn't. I already gave an example of ways in which data can be "tricked." The only way to ensure an accurate measure of a person's ability to impact games is win or lose. Statistically speaking, it's perfectly fine, as long as you play a large number of games.

The only excuse Riot has is "cause it's hard to program and it won't make money."

Do you have a source on this? Where did Riot say this?

ThorDoubleYoo1 votes

Here, let me respond with a request. For your next 10 games I want you to pick a role for bottom lane, support or carry, your choice. When you hit level 4, run into the enemy lane and feed. Do this 5 more times, then feel free to stop. Spend the rest of the game 2 levels below your opposition, especially if you chose the adc role.

Of those 10 games please record how many you won and how many you lost. In addition ask your teammates when you lose if they feel the system is fair and balanced to take their points from them when they had a teammate perform like that.

Strat1 votes

But that wouldn't be a fair experiment, now would it?

Let's think in terms of simple statistical/probability math. Stuff you should learn in high school, so hopefully you'll understand it.

On the enemy team, there's 5 "slots" - that is, randomly chosen players. On your team, there's 4 slots (also randomly chosen players). Then there's you.

Now let's consider this. You never intentionally feed (let's hope not) and you never lose lane by more than a kill or two.

Now, let's name a theoretical percentage for each random player to be a feeder (intentional or not). I dunno, maybe, say, 15% chance.

That means that, on average, the enemy team has 0.15*5 == 0.75 feeders each game, and your team has 0.14*4 == 0.6 feeders each game (you can change the 15% to the real probability statistic, whatever it is).

Now, what happens if YOU intentionally feed on purpose each game? Suddenly your team has 0.14*4 + 1 == 1.6 feeders each game, and the enemy team still only has 0.75! What does that mean? Well, of fucking course you're going to lose a lot of games if you intentionally feed.

Now you can just as easily change the probability to X.

The enemy team has 5X feeders per game, your team has 4X+1 per game. Since X < 1.0 (not everyone in the game feeds) then the average number of feeders will be higher on your team than the enemy team if you intentionally feed. Similarly, if you never feed, the average number of feeders will be higher on the enemy team (5X > 4X).

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