Is it a good or bad idea to make a Champion over-reliant on their ultimate?

darkdill·Sep 23, 2014·1 votes·831 views

When I think of "over-reliant on ultimate", I think of Champions like Ahri, Ashe, Twisted Fate, Katarina, etc. Champions who, if their ultimate is down, they are almost-completely worthless. This DOES NOT include Karma, Nidalee, Elise or Jayce, since they don't have real ultimates anyways.

Ahri's case, she basically cannot fight without Spirit Rush, or she's a slow, easy kill for the enemy. Without ECA, Ashe's utility kinda sucks. If Katarina blows it with Death Lotus, she's dead. Twisted Fate without Destiny has nothing someone else couldn't do better. The list could go on, but you get the point.

Should Champions like these be made less "ult-dependent"? Or does Riot claim "Good design, stop b!tching!"?

8 Comments

12talesSep 23, 20141 votes

I don't really see any issue with being ult reliant, any more so than being passive reliant or Q reliant or item reliant. It's just another power curve to play with.

The MormonatorSep 23, 20141 votes

Ult dependence is a bad thing, simply because you're saying that they useless until level six and then only useful every minute or so. However, none of the champions you listed are reliant on their ultimate in any way in my opinion. Ahri has never had any problems bursting down opponents without her ult, having a strong form of crowd control and even true damage. Twisted Fate has a stun and long range poke, etc etc etc. All champions are designed so that their ultimates give them more power and prepare for bigger plays, save the few that don't have legitimate ultimates with cooldowns.

KillzerzSep 23, 20141 votes

There is a reason why a lot of champions that are being played in World's are NOT ult reliant.

Lucian's R is awesome, but it usually is used now for poke or wave clear.

Caitlyn uses her R to poke, but it really isn't used in teamfights (looking at you Imp).

Kha'Zix is certainly way more powerful with his evolutions, but his ultimate isn't what makes him a beast (it helps, but I wouldn't call him ult reliant).

Maokai has a low enough CD on his ult that it doesn't matter.

Ryze is like Maokai.

Xerath can snipe you with R, but really his power lies in infinite poke and waveclear.

Tristana can murder you without her ult, although it does help peel.

HI I'M NIDALEE AND F*CK YOU.

THAT BEING SAID, there are some healthy champions being picked in worlds FOR their ult.

Orianna's ult can completely turn a fight around. (She is currently picked for this and the fact she can waveclear relatively well, she is a lane bully, and her shield is for the ADC).

Rumble can 1v1 you without his ult, but damn he would suck without his ult in a teamfight.

ALL SUPPORTS BEING PLAYED NOW.

Lee Sin doesn't need his ult for the first 15 minutes of the game to make your life a living nightmare, but lategame slaps him in the face if he doesn't have it.

Soooo what I'm trying to say is that ults are really bad for 1v1s because you can't choose your time to go in; you have to wait for cooldowns. However, for some people are picked because their ults are so ridiculously powerful in the right situations that you cannot afford to not take them.

Knight SoIaire Sep 23, 20141 votes

its not about being just reliant on your ult buut the over reliance on the ult champions like twisted fate whos only good point is his ult, or champions like akali and kata who just wait till 6 and can 100-0 anyone they find

diferennt champions show diferent types of ult reliance like you just shown in the popst above, but there are some champions who dont realy have anything good about themselves besides their ult, or are realy strong but the only thing that allows them to use this force is their ult and thats what op wanted to point out

i personaly consider the over-reliance on ult a bad thing because it causes a lot of toxicity (champs akali and fizz, you have to bully them early but its not like one mistake will allow them to kill you even at lvl1) or it causes the champion to become one trick pony (hey im tf and i can teleport, oh wait its late game and im useless in 90% of the cases) and all of those champions who are over-reliant on ults arre usualy realy hard to ballance, (imagine if akalis dmg or sustain wouldnt be so insane, she would either feed early because she is meele, or she would get rekt at 6 because mages can actualy trade wit her )

darkdillSep 23, 20141 votes

This.

Though with Akali, if you burst her too much, she can't stay to spellvamp or you'll kill her.

Knight SoIaire Sep 24, 20141 votes

there i not much of a burst pre 6 in this game also the most basic akali strategy is to go back when she hits 6 then she has full hp while you didnt want miss cs (akali is not a farming type so she does not care for cs ) usualy i see akalis just blindly charging (im gold atm but i played in plat for a little while) and scoring kill with ease despite being bullied early

LstrikeSep 23, 20141 votes

Only roles picked for their ult in the current meta are supports and mids..

Current Mids have ults that burst ppl down while supports have ult that is used to engage/disengage..

I think this is perfect balance where 2/5 in your team are reliant on their ults and the other 3 are not...

Knight SoIaire Sep 23, 20141 votes

ult reliant champions are bad imo because either their kits without their ults suck (look at ahri tf) or their kits are strong but their ults remove the only thing that their kits lacked before 6 (akali, fizz, kassa, kata) meaning insta snowball just because i have 6