Quick question for mage players: Did you take the ferocity tree because it's the "offense tree"?

Ralanr·Nov 12, 2015·1 votes·1,009 views

Basic question really.

21 Comments

FredgerdNov 12, 20156 votes

Ya people who don't like deathsfire apparently don't know that Stormraiders is amazing on mages, also intelligence, holy shit.

YuGiHoNov 12, 20151 votes

intelligence on orianna is life, also Stormraiders on talon finally gives him the escape he needed after assassinating someone so maybe he wont just suicidal bomb them

FredgerdNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

intelligence on orianna is life, also Stormraiders on talon finally gives him the escape he needed after assassinating someone so maybe he wont just suicidal bomb them

Wha? Since when is Talon a suicide bomb? His ult gives him fantastic escape. Not that Stormraiders is bad on him or anything, but Talon wasn't bad to begin with.

EndlessSorcererNov 12, 20154 votes

No.

If you are DoT/poke-oriented, you probably want to take Deathfire Touch in the Ferocity Tree.

If you are burst-oriented, you probably want to take Thunderlord's Decree in the Cunning Tree.

RalanrNov 12, 20152 votes

You see that's what I was thinking! The ferocity tree isn't the "go here for damage" tree like its predecessor!

FredgerdNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No.

If you are DoT/poke-oriented, you probably want to take Deathfire Touch in the Ferocity Tree.

If you are burst-oriented, you probably want to take Thunderlord's Decree in the Cunning Tree.

Thunderlord's seems better on champs with some on hit incentive to build attack speed.

Stormraiders is great on burst mages because it lets you blow your load and then run to the back of the line while your cooldowns recover (5% faster than previously possible with intelligence)

RalanrNov 12, 20151 votes

Really the cunning tree is great for mages. I don't see why people don't just try 18 cunning/12 ferocity. What are they ashamed of sharing masteries with a support or something?

MartyrofsandNov 12, 20152 votes

Some are probably concerned with losing the 7% spell pen you get as well as the fact that a number of the earlier choices in Cunning are pretty bleh, I mean you don't get damage boost from that tree until tier 3 with Merciless and that is just 5% when they are below 40% HP.

The tree has it's merits and you can still pick up some decent talents from Ferocity but it isn't as simple as Cunning > Ferocity by any amount.

Hell some burst mages will actually enjoy Deathfire, I do on Annie for example where I can R-W-Q someone with ignite and the burn from ignite and deathfire does a good bit to burn them down, not to mention the occasional Q poke I get in when they come to CS. All it all it adds up.

RalanrNov 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Hell some burst mages will actually enjoy Deathfire, I do on Annie for example where I can R-W-Q someone with ignite and the burn from ignite and deathfire does a good bit to burn them down, not to mention the occasional Q poke I get in when they come to CS. All it all it adds up.

This right here is the point. Some mages will enjoy one thing, some may enjoy another. When I see these keystones, I see people building based on preference rather than what's more powerful (I'm an optimist in this game...I don't know why since I'm a pessimist IRL).

As for the magic pen, the cunning tree gives some and item 3020 and item 3135 still work on base resistances instead of bonus resistances like item 3035 .

EndlessSorcererNov 12, 20151 votes

Depending on how Deathfire Touch interacts with Tibber's AoE damage, she may be considered an odd case.

StoningtonNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Some are probably concerned with losing the 7% spell pen you get as well as the fact that a number of the earlier choices in Cunning are pretty bleh, I mean you don't get damage boost from that tree until tier 3 with Merciless and that is just 5% when they are below 40% HP.

The tree has it's merits and you can still pick up some decent talents from Ferocity but it isn't as simple as Cunning > Ferocity by any amount.

Hell some burst mages will actually enjoy Deathfire, I do on Annie for example where I can R-W-Q someone with ignite and the burn from ignite and deathfire does a good bit to burn them down, not to mention the occasional Q poke I get in when they come to CS. All it all it adds up.

IMO you have to compare 18/12/0 to 12/18/0. So really, we have to compare the highest two tiers with the other highest two tiers. It appears Ferocity favours early game power and poking while Cunning favours scaling and unloading all your spells onto one target. You have to consider at level 13 you'll have the same %pen on precision as you would with piercing thoughts. From then on it scales better. The 5% increase on the CDR cap is clearly a scaling spell.

With all of that said I think we'll be seeing players taking 18 in Ferocity over Cunning due to the shorter game times and snowball potential.

RalanrNov 12, 20151 votes

Or because, "Damages!"

J EevoNov 12, 20151 votes

Deatfire is ridiculous on dot and complete ass on everyone else.

Thunderlord's decre is for combo centric burst but has a long cd and scales better with levels than with ap (Had a sion game where i picked wrong masteries and thanks to the level scaling i got about +190 damage on my weqw combo)

Poke mages atm don't get shit (thunderlord's decree needs 3 hits) so they're kinda effed (and don't stormraider, if you poke from a distance you don't need that)

Also, cunning tree overall is subpar when compared to ferocity with the exception of the last keystones and merciless mastery.

As for people getting up in the air about the Intelligence: Great for AD casters since the itemization is great in regards of ad+cd Subpar for Mages since the CD reduction items are kinda bad when stacked: To reach 45%, you need 2 items with 20%, which for AP mages are Morellonomicon, Athene's and Nashor's tooth

Most mages will ignore nashor's as don't AA and building both Morello and Athene's is really awkward ESPECIALLY if you already have something like Roa or archangel in your base build.

RalanrNov 12, 20151 votes

Runes?

ProfDrDeathNov 12, 20151 votes

Deatfire is ridiculous on dot and complete ass on everyone else.

Poke mages atm don't get shit (thunderlord's decree needs 3 hits) so they're kinda effed (and don't stormraider, if you poke from a distance you don't need that)

So, why not go Deathfire on pokers, then? If you hit something, you get an additional 20% (single-target poke)/10% (AoE) AP scaling on your skills. Which is not too shabby, all things considered.

StoningtonNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, why not go Deathfire on pokers, then? If you hit something, you get an additional 20% (single-target poke)/10% (AoE) AP scaling on your skills. Which is not too shabby, all things considered.

There's no reason not to. Your logic is sound.

ProfDrDeathNov 12, 20151 votes

An interesting question for me now is:

Does the of Deathfire proc Rylai's/Liandry's?

StoningtonNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

An interesting question for me now is:

Does the of Deathfire proc Rylai's/Liandry's?

Probably not, I know it doesn't proc spell thief.

J EevoNov 12, 20151 votes

There's no reason not to, because there's no better option, that does not mean the option is good. It's "something" insert gif, but most cases I've seen Xerath Ziggs It's so negligible that it makes you wonder if it does anything at all - in comparison to stuff like and Malzahar on which it's visible CLEARLY because of how much it adds to their damage.

SlytherinUmbreonNov 12, 20151 votes

I actually run CDR/Lvl runes. Is nice. But I guess I might need to switch to flat now, since reaching level 18 is a bitch task now. :/ Gotta go do math, damn it.