@Meddler is it still possible to see Darius rework this year?

5 Stacks GG·Jun 18, 2015·19 votes·8,918 views

I thought Darius would be fine once he got his full reset back but o boy I was so wrong,

Recently I got to master and it made me realize how awful Darius current state is, Darius rely 90% on enemy mistakes and 10% on teammate.

Playing Darius at master level was a painful experience since people play around him so easily I couldn't be able to do anything, outplay anybody unless my jungler camped me which was very rare. I think Darius state is bad for the game, He can't build damage and carry, he can't be full tank or people ignore him and deals irrelevant damage and he can't be a mix of both since he has 0 innate tankyness which make him explode to anyone who is a little bit fed.

The only time Darius is relevant is when he get's fed and has items advantage and even then he still can't outplay his opponent..

It would be cool what is Riot opinion on this, thanks for reading.

54 Comments

RiotMeddlerJun 19, 201511 votes

It's likely, though not guaranteed, that we'll do some more work on Darius sometime this year. Odds are that'll involve making him less of a lane bully, but giving him a better late game presence. Something else we'd also like to get to, and might bundle with that work, are some adjustments to fighter itemization, both in terms of a new item or two and some revisions to existing items.

NemeBroJun 19, 20157 votes

{quoted}

It's likely, though not guaranteed, that we'll do some more work on Darius sometime this year. Odds are that'll involve making him less of a lane bully, but giving him a better late game presence. Something else we'd also like to get to, and might bundle with that work, are some adjustments to fighter itemization, both in terms of a new item or two and some revisions.

When you say "less of a lane bully", will he still largely be an early game bully, in the vein of Garen, Riven, or Renekton (all of who more or less scale a bit better into late game IMO)?

edit: Oh, and is this an extensive rework ala Sion, or more of a mini-rework like Ashe's?

edit 2: Why did I get downvoted for asking a question?

RiotMeddlerJun 19, 20157 votes

Disclaimer: This is far from set in stone. At a guess though, I'd expect him to still be a fairly dangerous laner, but not to the current 'dominate you completely in lane otherwise he's failed' extent. Scope wise probably smaller than Ashe. Something along the lines of changes to the effects on some skills, but not complete replacement of anything.

And, just to keep expectations appropriate, this wouldn't be just a bunch of buffs. We do want to get Darius to a spot where he can better contribute in team fights, whether through kit changes or better itemization. We also want to fix some of the laning problems he creates though, where some opponents are left without options apart from 'lose a lot of farm or get heaps of jungler help'.

NemeBroJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Disclaimer: This is far from set in stone. At a guess though, I'd expect him to still be a fairly dangerous laner, but not to the current 'dominate you completely in lane otherwise he's failed' extent. Scope wise probably smaller than Ashe. Something along the lines of changes to the effects on some skills, but not complete replacement of anything.

And, just to keep expectations appropriate, this wouldn't be just a bunch of buffs. We do want to get Darius to a spot where he can better contribute in team fights, whether through kit changes or better itemization. We also want to fix some of the laning problems he creates though, where some opponents are left without options apart from 'lose a lot of farm or get heaps of jungler help'.

All right, thanks for responding. I think that's great then. My biggest worry when people talk about reworking Darius is the idea that he might have his identity completely changed. Knowing that is not what you guys are considering doing takes a load off my mind. Thanks!

AdaloreJun 19, 20151 votes

As long as (at least as far as I am aware) the identity of a long term brusier/tank that you don't want to stand to for extended amounts of time remains intact and possibly enhanced.

I know I have read you guys do want to make his stack count go WAY higher.

Oh one possibility is that as he gains R ranks maybe while his W is active but unspent he gets a fair speed buff. Sorta like how a decent chunk of gnar's late game power is all tied up into his ult changing his stats.

Duke AnaxJun 19, 20151 votes

as long as you fix the bug where it is impossible to dodge his hook. or ratehr dodging is pointless as you get teleportet back to where you were.

5 Stacks GGJun 19, 20151 votes

that's nice! Im fine with Darius trading some early power for more into his late game.

I am really looking toward it!

DormidonJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

that's nice! Im fine with Darius trading some early power for more into his late game.

I am really looking toward it!

Do you really believe him? : D

5 Stacks GGJun 19, 20151 votes

Yes, also it's better to have hope than being down and sad

DormidonJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, also it's better to have hope than being down and sad

Dude you're master tier player. Who cares about Darius at master tier? Just play with meta champs. Hihi

5 Stacks GGJun 19, 20154 votes

I do, Darius is my main since he was on pbe back in april 2012. I also don't like playing meta champ it's boring for me i'd rather not play at all than have to play meta champ.

DormidonJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I do, Darius is my main since he was on pbe back in april 2012. I also don't like playing meta champ it's boring for me i'd rather not play at all than have to play meta champ.

Yeah same

Ariel the CruelJun 19, 20154 votes

Shyvana you JarvanIV mean Leona I'm Nasus allowed Olaf to Trundle farm Volibear again?

JonnersJun 19, 20151 votes

Still think Shyvana needs a rework (or I need some coaching on how to play her this season)

Ariel the CruelJun 19, 20152 votes

Shyvana's really good for what she does. She's innately tanky, decent mobility (I remember when she was considered high mobility), mixed damage, %max health damage, AoE damage, ranged poke. Her lack of and susceptibility to CC (which is currently running rampant) are a major trade-off. She's not top tier, but she has a history of coming and going. Overall, I'd say she's in a good spot.

(I wouldn't complain about fixing her ult though.)

JonnersJun 19, 20151 votes

Actually I like how her ult works, you can scare the crap out of your opponent because they wouldn't know when it's on it's way to being used, however I'd like to see maybe some buffs to her passive a bit maybe.

Ariel the CruelJun 19, 20151 votes

Her fury bar exists for the sole purpose of letting the enemy know when her ult is up. (>_>)

My complaint is how her knock-back is inconsistent. In addition to carrying enemies a fraction of the travel distance, it also occasionally drops enemies off at a fraction of that distance. So the only CC in her kit is entirely unreliable for anything more than a disruption.

JonnersJun 20, 20151 votes

I've noticed that while I play her. It's not a very reliable way to keep the enemy guessing. As well as the CC not being reliable.

NVDaxJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

** Something else we'd also like to get to, and might bundle with that work, are some adjustments to fighter itemization, both in terms of a new item or two and some revisions to existing items.**

Where have I heard THAT ONE before :P oh, maybe two-three seasons ago?

WullfJun 19, 20151 votes

Already this year I thought that Poppy and Taric will be this year, or you can manage to do all?

MaeggesMCJun 19, 20151 votes

then do some more work on taric and i wont pester u rito guys anymore gg surrendur gibe teric or i gonna use a spam bot

Old Man TeetoJun 19, 20151 votes

Please remember that currently he's more of a bully to melee champion, try to make it so he can fight ranged but where he doesn't just stomp all over melee's when playable.

XxxLumberJackxxXJun 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's likely, though not guaranteed, that we'll do some more work on Darius sometime this year. Odds are that'll involve making him less of a lane bully, but giving him a better late game presence. Something else we'd also like to get to, and might bundle with that work, are some adjustments to fighter itemization, both in terms of a new item or two and some revisions to existing items.

weve heard about this fighter rework fighter item rework for two years.... 3?

Sweet FluffyTailJun 27, 20151 votes

As a Darius Main, I have to say i'm happy to finally see a project on him. The first problem is he's better with a lot of AD but too squishy. And so easy to kite that if people flash out from the grab or blink/dash, he's not able to kill them, just being kite while being squishy. If he's too tanky, people don't care about him.

Too many AD ratio, on the passive and 3 abilities. Not a single tank abilities, not a single hard CC (except Grab but not a stun), no sustain, he's like an Assassin without mobility. But i'm a bit afraid that if he's more a beast tank than what he is, he won't be an insane dunkmaster. But hey, when I see that Irelia is a monster with an insane sustain, a natural CC resistance with a 2sec stun and able to erase a squishy ennemy, what could possibly goes wrong ?

MadDoughnutzJun 18, 20155 votes

Darius is confirmed for a rework, just don't know when.

I love Darius, but as you said, higher up it gets harder and harder because people know the match up more and more which translates into 'Abuse Darius with ganks and avoid his early power'. You pick Darius for the same reason you pick Renekton: To win lane and shut down the enemy laner, but Renekton is 1: Manaless and 2: Has Gap closers that aren't reliant on the enemy positioning bad. The most a Darius can do against an opponent that knows how to respect Darius' early power and play safe against him is zone them from farm, and even if they trade, Darius will always push lane because of his Q and that opens him up to his biggest weakness: Ganks.

To sum it up in a few words, "Darius doesn't win lane, people just lose it to him."

Neo CyrusJun 18, 20152 votes

Be careful what you wish for. When you get your eventual Darius rework by 2030, you'll probably get a new character named Darius that looks like Darius, but doesn't play like anything you would want.

NemeBroJun 18, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Neo Cyrus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v4TF22vA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-18T20:42:39.271+0000)

Be careful what you wish for. When you get your eventual Darius rework by 2030, you'll probably get a new character named Darius that looks like Darius, but doesn't play like anything you would want.

This is probably my biggest fear.

I once saw someone suggest turning Darius into a sissy skirmisher who can't 1v1 manfight but hit and runs and I wanted to kill myself.

Morello's suggestion also sounded profoundly terrible. Making him less bursty and more reliant on building stacks of his passive to do any real damage would only make him even worse at team fights as an immobile fighter with no tank steroids.

5 Stacks GGJun 19, 20151 votes

Im taking the risk

Serge THE GREATJun 18, 20152 votes

I played Nasus recently against a Darius and it was pitiful. Darius supposedly counters Nasus, but I had almost no trouble at all just ignoring him and farming away. And I'm not even a huge Nasus player.

alfavhunterJun 18, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serge THE GREAT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v4TF22vA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-06-18T22:24:43.750+0000)

I played Nasus recently against a Darius and it was pitiful. Darius supposedly counters Nasus, but I had almost no trouble at all just ignoring him and farming away. And I'm not even a huge Nasus player.

The Darius didn't know how to bully then

Only Play DariusJun 19, 20152 votes

Did you get any help from your jungler? Because if the jungler camps Nasus, he WILL win lane against Darius, despite being his hardest counter.

Jeddy017Jun 19, 20151 votes

Ok dude,I hope you realize that was likely against a player who was likely not great with Darius.Try playing against an experienced Darius player with Nasus & you will see what's really pitiful. And I'm someone who plays Nasus & top lane a lot (meaning that I played against several Darius) & I can say that matchup is Hell for Nasus.

VarindranJun 18, 20152 votes

I do think Darius is kinda weak now, most people pick Jax into him and just 1v1 him with just a cutlass at any point in the game. my luck with him is a win lane - lose game scenario where the toplaner i killed 3 times in lane gets 4 kills when teamfights start then hes even with me and all the work i did up toplane was meaningless.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20151 votes

Im sorry did you just say tank darius deals irrelevant damage? i didn't realize 500 true damage on a reset was irrelevant

5 Stacks GGJun 18, 20152 votes

you act as if the reset happened everytime. and that's the only good damage he has, what mostly happen even when full tank is you either go on their carries and realize you can't kill them with all the peel and kite or you peel for you adc and you dont do enough damage to kill them fast and you ult without the reset trying to save your adc or ult before dying to theirs.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20151 votes

im only silver 5 though so what do i know, im a young darius main i havent played him and mained him for 3 seasons like you have.

The TrentJun 18, 20151 votes

AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT DOESNT GET HOW TEEMO COUNTERS DARIUS?

NemeBroJun 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT DOESNT GET HOW TEEMO COUNTERS DARIUS?

I don't really have much trouble with Teemo as Darius, tbh.

I approach the match-up differently than others. I run more defensive masteries and use teleport (Darius doesn't need ignite to kill Teemo). The key to beating Teemo is movement speed. Starting boots gives you immense early trading power, and a phage will be necessary. Kill a minion, then use the movement speed boost to get within hook range.

I suppose it's possible that the Teemos in silver are bad though.

The TrentJun 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't really have much trouble with Teemo as Darius, tbh.

I approach the match-up differently than others. I run more defensive masteries and use teleport (Darius doesn't need ignite to kill Teemo). The key to beating Teemo is movement speed. Starting boots gives you immense early trading power, and a phage will be necessary. Kill a minion, then use the movement speed boost to get within hook range.

I suppose it's possible that the Teemos in silver are bad though.

PEOPLE PLAY TEEMO OUT OF SILVER

alfavhunterJun 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I don't really have much trouble with Teemo as Darius, tbh.

I approach the match-up differently than others. I run more defensive masteries and use teleport (Darius doesn't need ignite to kill Teemo). The key to beating Teemo is movement speed. Starting boots gives you immense early trading power, and a phage will be necessary. Kill a minion, then use the movement speed boost to get within hook range.

I suppose it's possible that the Teemos in silver are bad though.

Teemo will trash Darius if the teemo knows how to kite and stay out of pull range/ bait the pull, by the time Darius hits 6 teemo should be 8 with double the CS due to forcing Darius out of lane by hp, that or teemo gets kills and is ahead

Jungler ganks can chance the result of corse

terkmcJun 19, 20151 votes

Teemo AA range: 500 Darius Aprehend range: 550 See the problem here? The one safe spell that Teemo has vs Darius is his Q. ou ranging by 30 unit. If Teemo try to harass with poison aa (which is how he most of the time win lane), he gets pulled, where Darius wrecks havoc on his low hp pool. Darius pull have one of the most lenient window there is. Once the animation started you are gonna get pulled. This is a comparison between Teemo move quick (which he max last) and Darius Crippling Strike (which he max second) Teemo: ACTIVE MOVEMENT SPEED: 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52% Darius: SLOW: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40%

LICENSED HOOKERJun 18, 20151 votes

If darius gets a rework before Yorick then screw you riot.

DormidonJun 19, 20151 votes

"Darius is fine. He beats every melee matchup". - typical comment

Only Play DariusJun 19, 20151 votes

Yea, I just picked up Darius and turns out I really like him. He is fun as hell to play, his skills feel satisfying to use, and sometimes, I like being obnoxious to the enemy team.

But now I realize just how shitty he is. He gets destroyed in lane by anyone with the slightest bit of ranged harass, and he is trash at getting in range to do anything to his opponent, it's unbelievable how difficult it is to get near your target even in 1v1 scenarios. For example, the only time I can ever land apprehend in lane is if my enemy fucks up and doesn't pay attention to the vectors as he moves around the lane. And don't even get me started on trying to get in range during teamfights. For whatever reason, people also like to camp him, and since he has no mobility or defense steroids, it usually results in his death (right now i'm on extreme tilt because I am getting camped and shutdown every single fucking game.)

I want his kit to stay obnoxious, but I also want it to be better for him at the same time.

NemeBroJun 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v4TF22vA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-06-19T03:56:46.270+0000)

Yea, I just picked up Darius and turns out I really like him. He is fun as hell to play, his skills feel satisfying to use, and sometimes, I like being obnoxious to the enemy team.

But now I realize just how shitty he is. He gets destroyed in lane by anyone with the slightest bit of ranged harass, and he is trash at getting in range to do anything to his opponent, it's unbelievable how difficult it is to get near your target even in 1v1 scenarios. For example, the only time I can ever land apprehend in lane is if my enemy fucks up and doesn't pay attention to the vectors as he moves around the lane. And don't even get me started on trying to get in range during teamfights. For whatever reason, people also like to camp him, and since he has no mobility or defense steroids, it usually results in his death (right now i'm on extreme tilt because I am getting camped and shutdown every single fucking game.)

I want his kit to stay obnoxious, but I also want it to be better for him at the same time.

The idea that any ranged champion shits on Darius is something of a myth, IMHO.

Teemo isn't as hard as people say (he's more difficult than most opponents though and requires a different train of thought going into it). Gnar is pretty easy. Even Jayce is a winnable lane (take ghost instead of flash).

Some ranged champions are admittedly exceedingly difficult for Darius though. Quinn, Lulu, Kayle, Kennen, etc.

NixtarmaJun 19, 20151 votes

I have always seen Darius as a huge bully. I really hope that his early-game is not removed, because I think bullies have a place, especially on teams focused on early dominance. This sort of goes out the window in blind queue, but I do not think that the game was designed around blind pick. Essentially, an early-dominance team wants to force so many objectives early on, and get the enemy team far enough behind on gold, that they cannot recover before the game ends. This has different levels of difficulty, depending on the match-up, but that means that well-planned teams can make use of this sort of strategy and all skill levels.