The early bird guts the worm

Chaos Milk Tea·Mar 15, 2017·2 votes·2,252 views

You read the title, you know who this discussion is about.

So, Swain has been designated as needing a gameplay update, though not any time soon. There's likely some apprehension from Swain players there though as his current lore only matches his gameplay in half: Plenty of Bird, only a little tactician. That makes me wonder, are swain players happy with their mage who transitions into some kind of AP juggernaut?

Would it be interesting to you if his base gameplay required more forethought and provided his team more utility? Or is bird the only word and if swain isn't murdering he isn't swain?

7 Comments

Viktor Von LazerMar 15, 20171 votes

Good question, I main mid but when i play top I always pick swain cause he's good 1v1, he has ranged advantage, he's hard to kill, he has cc, zone control and great teamfighter, he's got it all. I always thought the lore didn't match with the play, but I don't think I would want him to be changed.

Best of the 3Mar 15, 20171 votes

On the lore side of things, it's always been my opinion Riot should have the lore and the game separate. And I think they're moving in this direction by the removal summoners from the Lore itself. A lot of Swain's lore is old and conflicts with new updated stories. A fresh paint on it would help a lot, but trying to match gameplay to lore is a bad move imo.

Viktor Von LazerMar 15, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best of the 3,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v40ih1kL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-15T19:48:03.112+0000)

On the lore side of things, it's always been my opinion Riot should have the lore and the game separate. And I think they're moving in this direction by the removal summoners from the Lore itself. A lot of Swain's lore is old and conflicts with new updated stories. A fresh paint on it would help a lot, but trying to match gameplay to lore is a bad move imo.

meh I kind of disagree on that slightly. I feel like they should match. When I play an assassin should feel like that. When i play azir (balancing issues with the kit are for another discussion) but I feel like an emperor controlling the battle. The match is good, and it should be there, but of course I wouldn't want it to be forced at the expense of balance and gameplay

Best of the 3Mar 15, 20172 votes

I think you're right, let me rephrase.

I think lore should determine how a character looks and feels. Say if a character with the lore of Karthus, had gameplay and looks of Soraka, that'd be awfully contradictory. But what I mean to say is, I don't think lore should be used to balance gameplay. Taking Azir for example (sorry, I don't know his lore), assume he was the emperor of the army of 10,000 men. Some could argue in game he should be able to summon more than just 3-4. Shite example but it's the best I got right now. In terms of Swain, I think just because he's a tactician in lore, does not mean he should be overloaded with extra utility in game. At least not without completely overhauling him to allow for balance.

Viktor Von LazerMar 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best of the 3,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v40ih1kL,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T20:12:04.095+0000)

I think you're right, let me rephrase.

I think lore should determine how a character looks and feels. Say if a character with the lore of Karthus, had gameplay and looks of Soraka, that'd be awfully contradictory. But what I mean to say is, I don't think lore should be used to balance gameplay. Taking Azir for example (sorry, I don't know his lore), assume he was the emperor of the army of 10,000 men. Some could argue in game he should be able to summon more than just 3-4. Shite example but it's the best I got right now. In terms of Swain, I think just because he's a tactician in lore, does not mean he should be overloaded with extra utility in game. At least not without completely overhauling him to allow for balance.

Yup I agree with you on all those points, It will be interesting to see what they do though. If they added more sophisticated way to get the bonus damage his torment currently gives rather than just point and click... (god is swain easy lol E-Q and they lose half their health), but buff damage outside of ultimate slightly to compensate, that might make him a higher skill cap, not change his overall performance (give and take) and make him match the lore a bit more (cause you'll have to think a bit about how to combo etc rather than point and click then press R for the win)

The Lost MarblesMar 15, 20171 votes

I don't think turning Swain into a support would sit well with his player-base, but that's just a hunch.

I feel like it would've been neat if Swain was an actual dual-mode champion, with his human form having the more tactical utility while his raven form brings the damage. Essentially a variation of Elise that has more disruption and AoE damage and less up-front burst.

Right now, his transformation (not the ult in general, just the transformation itself) just feels tacked on for the sake of making Swain "cool". It doesn't alter his mechanics or gameplay at all, and simply shooting raven familiars could've been done without him turning into a raven demon.

Just a thought.

Chaos Milk TeaMar 15, 20171 votes

I main Orianna, so I have confidence in the ability of a utility mage to transition into late game without just becoming a high damage support like zilean and karma. I think that potential lies in the ult. I don't see it becoming anything else any so as long as he has an offensive ult and at least two other damaging spells he will always be an offensive mage imo.

Unless his transformation becomes a passive? Sort of like "If you meet conditions x and y swain goes bird mode which changes his spells."

He has a lot of flexibility in his concept to explore is the problem.