Why does Hecarim have such a weak early game?

Brascus·Jul 11, 2017·2 votes·2,179 views

I just picked him up and it's really strange to me. Nothing about his kit sticks out and says 'this is the power budget sink hole', his damage never really spikes that much, especially since you must 100% build tanky or die from anything, and even if you do build damage, all your scalings are mediocre at best so building damage isn't very gratifying either.

Your ult does some damage and applies a finicky-to-land 1 second fear, your E is way better and significantly more useful and practical, it's a shyvana ult on a lower CD with a speed buff, it's good at catching people out and displacing team fights.

Is his E really that powerful? I'm not so sure what's that great about him, used to see him at worlds when I first joined, Huni did a nice flank and won the game, I wonder if he was nerfed since then.

http://imgur.com/tGR0VMY

19 Comments

Its All SkillzzJul 11, 20172 votes

weak early lol buys item 3057 Takes 3/4th your hp with E

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

At max rank with item 3742 item 3009 item 3078

Bonus movespeed AD 345 Base 55 Swiftness 60 Deadmans Total 460

At full charge you get 75% more movespeed 460/10 = 46 46*7.5 = 345 460+345 = 805

Sounds amazing, but then at max passive Hecarim only gets 30% of that as bonus AD 80.5*3 = 241.5

And then the ability only uses 50% of total Bonus AD 25 Trinity + 241.5 passive = 266.5 266.5/2 = 133.25

and the base damage of max rank Devastating Charge? 180 180 + 133.25 = 313 (rounding decimal down)

Let's add the Q combo and the DMP damage 160+50 = 210 210+313 = 523

This will do:

470.7 @ 10% mitigation 418.4 @ 20% mitigation 366.1 @ 30% mitigation

This is with 3 items 7533g @ level 13 and you're not buying anymore damage after that

To lose 3/4 of your health from hecarim EQ comboing you because he bought a sheen, he'd have to be ahead and you'd have to be feeding, and even then that's still an exaggeration.

Hecarim just doesn't do that much damage with this combo.

EndlessSorcererJul 11, 20171 votes

Bonus movespeed AD 345 Base 55 Swiftness 60 Deadmans Total 460

Trinity Force provides movement speed (as a stat and a passive).

Also, Hecarim's standard rune page includes movement speed quints.

At full charge you get 75% more movespeed

Movement speed has a soft-cap. After certain points, you only receive a certain percentage of movement speed increases.

And then the ability only uses 50% of total Bonus AD 25 Trinity + 241.5 passive = 266.5 266.5/2 = 133.25

and the base damage of max rank Devastating Charge? 180 180 + 133.25 = 313 (rounding decimal down)

The ability's damage (base and ratio) increase as you charge it (up to 2x).

A fully charged E at max rank would deal 360 + 100% bonus AD.

Let's add the Q combo and the DMP damage 160+50 = 210 210+313 = 523

Hecarim's Q deals 50/85/120/155/190 (+ 60% bonus AD). You can cast the ability before E lands, benefiting from the bonus AD provided by your passive.

Deadman's Plate deals 100 bonus damage at 100 stacks (which you'll usually have when you initiate). I'm not sure why, but it looks like you are adding an extra three damage.

It doesn't look like you included the damage from Spellblade or damage amplification from masteries in your calculations either.

Basically, there are a lot of issues with your calculations.

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

It was a rough calculation, the damage is still negligible, I tested his movespeed and it can go past 1k in practice mode shrug

IllegalBagelJul 11, 20171 votes

"Why does Hecarim have such a weak early game" cause he shoves his giant pickle in your face late game.

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

Hes not that durable late and his damage doesn't scale that well, hes not terrible but he's not that special either

IllegalBagelJul 11, 20172 votes

To be fair if he gets a good e/q off he cant easily take out 3/4 of a adc health

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

http://i.imgur.com/Gi0W0Ov.gif?noredirect

IllegalBagelJul 12, 20171 votes

D: It does though

AnnoxisJul 11, 20171 votes

He looks weak, and maybe he is at high elo, bit in the lower tier, he got a quite insane snowball if you can get some kills on him. But stealing his first blue means his game is over.

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

he eats through mana like no tomorrow, is he part of the older roster from pre rework poppy's time? pre rework poppy ate through mana like a fat kid on a bbq platter

makkiiJul 11, 20171 votes

his biggest strength is his ganks, his **backside tower dive gank **to be exact, especially effective mid against people who play backed up near their tower. im almost never the first one to die in a game, and i play very safe during laning, but that shit still gets me.

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

if they're low you can get an E Q R, but plenty of champs can do that with less risk

BLACK REALM GODJul 11, 20171 votes

whatever your reasoning - movement speed is the answer.

The Leo CatJul 11, 20171 votes

Because hecarim becomes a god damn nightmare of a jungler a little later.

Imperial JapanJul 11, 20171 votes

He scales pretty well. I tend to play him with either warriors > triforce or warriors > Youmoos but they both spoke hard after the second item. (And even the first)

BrascusJul 11, 20171 votes

I'm finding item 3800 works really well on him, a lot of the guides trumpet getting triforce first even before jg item, but it's too expensive for a first buy on a jg budget

Its All SkillzzJul 11, 20171 votes

His damage is busted on a squishy, i can easily find clips of me being nearly 1 shot as ezreal by a hec E Q and moment i E away from him he just R over the wall an i die everytime. most time hes not even fed maybe he finished triforce or has sheen early. the problem i have with his damage is its fucking to reliable, it is impossible to fuck up running into a squishy with your E an taking over half their hp with a targeted skill. he is one of my least favorite champions when ahead to have to deal with cause he moves so fast an his ult can follow you over walls.

UnpaladinJul 12, 20171 votes

He's a fantastic snowballer. His kit has everything he needs to show up to the party and his item and passive powerspikes are great at working on that. It may not be obvious where his power comes from, but everything comes together well enough.