102 Comments

AquariusGine52 votes

If he reaches 200% ban rate, will Riot finally realize that there's something inherently wrong with the champion?

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/085/283/philosoraptor.jpg

GULAG 4 U29 votes

I know this is memes and games, but you realize a champion's banrate shows their reputation in the eyes of the community, and not necessarily that they are an actual issue?

Velzard of Koz34 votes

We could argue the champion has issues in case they are so massively considered annoying. You'll find someone complaining abut certain champion regardless of their state. You'll find people complaining about Sion and Vel'Koz being unfair and broken. It's the amount of people who complain that matters.

The fact Yasuo isn't fun to play against for so many people is still issue, maybe not him being broken, but it is issue. If Riot doesn't want to fix that issue, okay then, low-elo Yasuo players will buy that new skin for that one game in a blue moon they'd get to play. It's question about whether it is good approach to fix issues like these, but Yasuo definitely is an issue.

GULAG 4 U8 votes

Unfun is subjective. It doesn't tie into balance. It's not a good balance metric.

Hella Kaiser14 votes

oh, ok... the main issue with pre-rework yorick was the "unfun" part, but, ya know... he was also a balance nightmare, that exploited items,ecc. at this point i don't know if there's a difference between pre-rework yorick and yas...

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Well I think it's agreeable that Yasuo is pretty unfun to play against so I'm not going to say anything about that .

-> Balance nightmare

Well it doesn't seem to be the case? He hasn't been changed fundamentally since he was released and riot isn't forced to work on him a lot every season.

Exploit items-> Yeah. That's pretty true.

Hella Kaiser10 votes

nah, it's a balance nightmare for adc items. the double crit passive makes him a balance nightmare, but not for the same reason as other champs. you change 10% in an item and suddently his win rate skyrockets, you nerf one item and he becomes trash...

his passive makes balancing adc items a nightmare. as some items that might be just alright on adc could be broken on him.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Well they balance Yasuo around Crit, not Crit around Yasuo. And this isn't something that is uncommon, assassins are also tied to lethality/arpen just like how mages are tied to AP. Making certain ap items good will make certain mages broken, it's not something surprising.

Also, if you are referring balance nightmare as the same as exploiting items, why not put both points into one argument?

Hella Kaiser6 votes

nope, they kind of balanced crit around yasuo for a year...

and i didn't put both in one arguement because i was talking about yorick, and it kind of felt like i was talking about yasuo because they were so similar on these things.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

It's the opposite? They buff/change crit and then nerf Yasuo?

Hella Kaiser1 votes

they nerfed him now. he hasn't been changed for while, but they changed crit items that were too strong on him. maybe it's just a coincidence.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

PD has been strong on a ridiculous amount of champions? Aatrox builds PD without any other crit item and it's his best build? PD is overpowered as fuck, and still is.

Thilmer3 votes

{quoted}

nah, it's a balance nightmare for adc items. the double crit passive makes him a balance nightmare, but not for the same reason as other champs. you change 10% in an item and suddently his win rate skyrockets, you nerf one item and he becomes trash...

his passive makes balancing adc items a nightmare. as some items that might be just alright on adc could be broken on him.

A passive that duplicates stats like this one shouldn't exists.

Imagine if Mundo has a passive "ítems that give you HP give you double HP". We would see Mundo with 10K HP and he would be unkillable.

Yasuo's passive is basically the same.

Hella Kaiser3 votes

the slight difference is that crit has a 100% cap, while health doesn't. immagine a passive : you get double CDR up to 80%. that would be insane.

FatedSaviour3 votes

wait, what would gargoyle stoneplate do, oh god head exploded

LordGeovanni1 votes

Enemy LeeSin would orgasm soo hard at the sound of that.

FatedSaviour1 votes

wait, does his ult do max health dmg of the original kicked target to the other targets hit, if not, elaborate the joke

LordGeovanni1 votes

Lee sins ult does bonus damage to everyone hit by the person he kicked based on the person he kicked'S max hp. Meant to get lee sin to stop using his ult to 1 shot squishies but they failed to nerf base or scaling damage but in fact buffed his base damage on ult so now he still 1 shots squishies but he also does more damage when he accidentally clicks a tank or uses it to escape a tank or anyone in general because no matter who its damage that wasnt there before or exchanged for any thing.

FatedSaviour1 votes

wouldnt you target the tank then so it does the tanks max health dmg and they are at the frontline so you can angle it right

LordGeovanni1 votes

That the idea but it will never be more use full than deleting the enemy dps because riots nerfs to defensive items make them more powerful as a result.

FatedSaviour1 votes

well, i just realized the 10k hp can happen with cho and sion (way more likely cho), gg lee

jama6553 votes

R.I.P OLD YORICK & ATMAS IMPALER

Hella Kaiser1 votes

i actually prefer the new yorick, but i miss the old ult...

jama6552 votes

I will trade you new yorick with old yoricks W&ult... (that wall is garbage to me)

FatedSaviour1 votes

never understood old ult, i got it used on me as sion, i died, then was alive, kinda, but then i died again out of nowhere and my passive didnt go off

Glomps You UwU1 votes

{quoted}

oh, ok... the main issue with pre-rework yorick was the "unfun" part, but, ya know... he was also a balance nightmare, that exploited items,ecc. at this point i don't know if there's a difference between pre-rework yorick and yas...

No one played yorick tho is the thing

Poske2 votes

With that approach League would become dota2

Where global hooks, Pernament stealths, 5 second stuns exist

Oblivious Denial2 votes

Global hooks were just for a special game mode. 5 sec stuns are situational. The longest point and click one is around 3 or so sec but take into consideration the BKB is a thing in Dota so that doesn't really matter that stuns last for so long.

Also, perma stealth is manageable because of items of gem and the fact blue wards last for 4 minutes.

Poske1 votes

Pudge global hook is just for a special mode?

Literaly every single Champion in dota2 HAS AOE HARD CC 5 sec was EXXAGERATION

There is virtually no diffrence between 2.5 - 5 seconds stun if it hits multiple people in any moba you ll die Fights in dota2 are decided by whoever engages

Great so you are forced to buy an item not to be permastunned. GREAT COUNTERPLAY

there are literaly champions like evelynn who stun you from stealth

Oblivious Denial3 votes

You've never played Dota, then. There's about 4 heroes that can overlap their stealth cds; Invoker, Clinkz, Bounty Hunter, and Riki who has perma stealth but a long fade duration which he can't take dmg or it cancels the duration.

Invoker has a high skill floor and he's naturally hard to play. His stuns come from his QWE ability, but that is weak if you want to have perma stealth.

Clinkz is basically an ADC, similar to Twitch but with fire instead of poison.

Bounty Hunter doesn't have any cc, either, except for a very very short stun on his Q, but that can't be spammed or used a lot because of it's high mana cost and the fact BH is an agility carry that doesn't build a lot of intel of mana items.

Riki has an AoE silence similar to Twitch W; step outside the smoke and you aren't silenced anymore. Riki doesn't have any escapes besides his ult, so hard cc from any source destroys him since he's squishy.

There's nothing bad about having to buy an item to counter something. Dota is all about countering, whether it be counter-picking or itemizing against someone's abilities (like MKB and PA). Dota doesn't really care about counterplay as much as league does since counterpicking is a viable strat to be utilized. You could say that a meepo has no counterplay vs an Earthshaker, but that's because the person was dumb enough to pick Meepo while earthshaker wasn't banned or picked by their own team.

Dota's picking phase holds a lot more weight that League's as the fate of the game can be decided there if you are dumb with your picks or pick orders.

While we're on the topic of Dota, DOTA 2'S 10 BAN SYSTEM IS SOOOOO MUCH BETTER THAN LEAGUE'S SYSTEM.

Poske3 votes

Dota2 doesnt have counterplay

Put any dota2 champion in league and it ll be deemed unhealthy regardless of winrate

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

every single hero in dota has counterplay

there are some RARE heroes that do not have counterplay and are outdated, and keep being reworked by icefrog (ie: faceless void or necrophos recently)

unfortunatly a single man working on an entire game while keeping it fresh makes the rework comming slowly

also, you talked about pudge, but pudge is healthier than everyone in this game his hook if he misses makes him unable to do anything for nearly 2 sec as the hook takes time to come back unlike blitz in league where the hook completly disappear he can hook his allies making it harder to aim for enemies his W is an aoe that you can stay out of it his ult is a channeling ability that can be stoped by items or spells his W deals damage to himself which is increased by magic shred

Poske3 votes

He can literaly hook a hero across 3k range and then stun him for 3 seconds?

What do you consider unhealthy then?

And hooking allies is a potentional benefit...

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=sYw8X6mq,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T20:21:55.285+0000)

He can literaly hook a hero across 3k range and then stun him for 3 seconds?

it's 1400 range to begin with it isn't instant but actually takes 1.4 seconds to reach max range can hook allies making it harder to hit

also, he can't stun you instantly after hooking there is a delay of nearly 0.5 sec where he can't do anything before casting ult and this leaves many heroes able to CC him/dash out/casting BKB

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=sYw8X6mq,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T20:21:55.285+0000)

What do you consider unhealthy then?

jesus, dota was made BY ICEFROG SON the godfather of every mobas

he was one of the 2 original designer of dota with ginsoo, and only ginsoo can step on his level of design

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=sYw8X6mq,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-21T20:21:55.285+0000)

And hooking allies is a potentional benefit...

depends, are we talking about competition? in competition if pudge wants to save an ally enemies will block the hook and kill him as he's squishy as fuck with 2 base armor

Poske1 votes

alright then he used to have a semi global hook

Atanchan3 votes

Pudge never had a hook that was remotely global. You might be thinking of Clockwerk's Hookshot ... which is more of a reverse hook, as it brings him to the enemy, not the enemy to him.

It's basically a Nocturne ult that you have to land a skillshot to use, in exchange for having a stun attached too.

Seriously, the only time Pudge's hook had anywhere close to global range was for Global Skillshots ... a custom game mode made by fans.

Dextix LT2 votes

Dota has a lot of counterplay, also a lot of counterpicking too.

And yes, dota champs and lol are different because they use different power levels and balance systems.

FuhrerRico8 votes

The main reason people play this game is for fun.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Not wrong, but do take note that this game is a competitive video game.

Oblivious Denial1 votes

The competitive scene doesn't compare to the number of players that just play for fun. There's millions of players on NA alone that just play for fun. Since when is it our job to bend to the wishes of the minority?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

No competitive scene, ladder; competitive play. Basically climbing ladder and pretty much plat3+.

Oblivious Denial1 votes

Still the minority. Plat III+ is like top 10%.

3TWarrior2 votes

well actually, a lot of that has to do with the worst types of players occupying lower ranks and then when you get to higher ranks, it's hard to climb because the game becomes different altogether when someone is pressing every advantage they can get

league is a competitive game and every rank is competitive, just the lower ranks have more crud to deal with and often don't want to stick with only (EDIT: I typed urgot instead of Yorick, I fUrgot his name apparently XD )or Illaoi or yasuo or etc to climb to silver or gold so they can really play

Nilok13 votes

Unfun is subjective, but it directly ties into good design. Any good game designer would use play testers and metadata to see exactly where and why a player isn't having fun at their game. Using this subjective information, they make the game more fun without the player understanding why. Valve is famous for doing things like this.

https://youtu.be/_HmtmoGwpZc

https://youtu.be/6op8eV5OBwE

Honestly, Extra Credits should be recommended watching for the gameplay board.

IPromiseTomorrow2 votes

The number of people that give their opinion shouldn't be a factor

It should be the individual one by one, select the one who's really good who really knows what he's talking about. No action forwarded by peer pressure alone caused Remarkable results and good value.

(If you belive my statement shows I follow the oppisite than you've not gotten the point straight)

(Mainstream stuff now is rap about money,sex, drugs. This is all directly related to following what "everyone says, everyone does" Why follow a mass like that.)

Thilmer2 votes

{quoted}

The number of people that give their opinion shouldn't be a factor

It should be the individual one by one, select the one who's really good who really knows what he's talking about.

That is like saying most people shouldn't vote in the elections since they know nothing about politics.

If 80% of the player base have a problem with a champion, then the problem is that champion.

IPromiseTomorrow1 votes

Well look you want someone with no knowledge about politics to vote. It's going to turn into this.

"Bad president gets elected by people with no idea who they even voted they just listened to Enright they did know. Like his Kick ass movie, opinions but never knew what he did and how unproductive grew actually was." -Daily news (that 18/20wants to say no good news. I got that from watching it a lot)

So do you want that for America or any nation that elects?

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

Well look you want someone with no knowledge about politics to vote. It's going to turn into this.

"Bad president gets elected by people with no idea who they even voted they just listened to Enright they did know. Like his Kick ass movie, opinions but never knew what he did and how unproductive grew actually was." -Daily news (that 18/20wants to say no good news. I got that from watching it a lot)

So do you want that for America or any nation that elects?

What I want doesn't matter. The sistem works basically like you have described; if we use that for a serious issue like governing a country, I think we can use that for a less serious matter like the balance in a videogame.

IPromiseTomorrow2 votes

Ya dude I made it reached onto other subjects pretty quick my bad.

And yea educating people of what they're voting/rooting/supporting for would be a great system.

Pretty sad it's coming along slowly. But yea it's coming ^-^

As for LoL. Ehh I think it's people should have the option to make them community better. All there needs to be is someone some group to do it.

But that's all to my statement mate have a nice day. ^^

FormationX45 votes

He will get the "honor" he deserves.

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