There's ONE type of champion that annoys the (excuse me) ever living shit out of me

Malicious Metal··111 votes·7,119 views

Champions that are BOTH HYPER MOBILE and have a shit ton of DAMAGE

And I know I might be biased here, playing the one class whose entire justification for having a lot of damage is being IMMOBILE.

But stuff like Lucian Ahri Fiora Graves and co never fail to piss me off because they're so fucking slippery and have a ton of damage packed into their kit with not very obvious drawbacks except being "squishy", which most of them really aren't if you think about it.

I just had to get this off my chest, I never really feel outplayed by them, knowing they just have the advantage of having a million dashes loaded into their kit.

//end rant

282 Comments

Big Lincoln62 votes

Fiora Graves being squishy LUL

Jet Sett31 votes

Graves Being hyper-mobile, lul.

Hunted900010 votes

Camille created to be a tanky, mobile, assassin

Raiyza11 votes

{quoted}

Camille created to be a tanky, mobile, assassin

And yet she also has true damage, healing, an inescapable ult, probably the longest ranged gap closer in the game? Really now. Camille is absolute bullshit and everyone knows it. No assassin should be tanky like that.

Ralanr32 votes

Usually this is countered by them being squishy.

Then some asshole builds tank on them and breaks the game for two weeks at least.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Being squishy doesn't matter if no one can hit them to begin with. It's why the ranged vs melee issue exists, if a melee has no tools to close the gap then it doesn't matter that the ranged person dies faster since the melee character will never get close enough to hit them anyway.

Ralanr9 votes

{quoted}

Being squishy doesn't matter if no one can hit them to begin with.

That's literally the goddamn point of being mobile.

PermabannedGaren32 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v1ErAWcP,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-29T20:04:52.958+0000)

Champions that are BOTH HYPER MOBILE and have a shit ton of DAMAGE

And I know I might be biased here, playing the one class whose entire justification for having a lot of damage is being IMMOBILE.

But stuff like Lucian Ahri Fiora Graves and co never fail to piss me off because they're so fucking slippery and have a ton of damage packed into their kit with not very obvious drawbacks except being "squishy", which most of them really aren't if you think about it.

I just had to get this off my chest, I never really feel outplayed by them, knowing they just have the advantage of having a million dashes loaded into their kit.

//end rant

There are more levers of balance than mobility, damage, and durability.

Spoofghoul14 votes

but oooh how convenient that all those champions only have damage, mobility, durability to balance them around

since they are packed with mobility and damage i guess they got to take a hit to durability

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/020/253/gravescigar.jpg

Bladerunner777722 votes

you act like Graves permanently walks around with a free 120 Armor and Magic Resist

His durability only works in extended fights aka it works as intended

Melledoneus17 votes

His durability is basically a third granted when he jumps into a fight, and he doesn't need to have an extended fight with you to blow your ass up.

Terozu3 votes

But in an extended fight he'd have to cycle through his skills, giving you multiple points of vulnerability to hit him in.

Melledoneus2 votes

You mean the ones that he blocks with his resistances, his Death's Dance passive, and heals back in a single auto?

Jet Sett1 votes

It sounds like whatever you're taking to fight him shouldn't be fighting him.

Melledoneus2 votes

You mean normal champions who don't one shot people with a jungle item?

I'm sorry if my champions of my pool aren't their own brand of broken.

Jet Sett2 votes

If Graves can one-shot you with a jungle item Shen can win both top and bot lane consistently.

Except neither of these things are true and you're just hating on a champion because it does well against what you like to play. Should I also talk down to assassin mains since they can kill Twisted Fate so easily?

No I shouldn't because that makes me an ass. No one is better than anyone here, and no one should be lying about their counters to get them nerfed. I could tell you that LeBlanc chained me from the her fountain to mine and killed me, but that wouldn't be true.

Neither is anyone being one-shot by a Graves with only a jungle item, you either mean to say they ate a full rotation and some autos or you mean to lie and gather all the people who ever fed a Graves to get him gutted. And I don't think I need to explain the irony of a Shen main trying to gut something for being good to you.

PermabannedGaren6 votes

{quoted}

you act like Graves permanently walks around with a free 120 Armor and Magic Resist

His durability only works in extended fights aka it works as intended

Tbh.

Late game especially Graves tends to die a lot because he can't stack his E without getting blown to pieces.

Kukan Seishin14 votes

Ahri... has a ton of damage packed into her kit... Dude... Have you looked at her actual statistics before? http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ahri She has the lowest base damages and scaling of any other mid laner (dont give me that if she is fed she can kill anyone, if ANYONE IS FED EVER they can kill anyone)

ACENOX31 votes

lowest base damage?

Q 280 base damage W 224 base damage and cannot miss E 200 base damage i admit that this one is low but has 2 sec stun tied to it R 450 base damage

W+Q alone deals 500 base damage, it doesn't matter if other mages can do more 500 base damage is definitly not low especially if she uses ult+buys morello and maybe luden

OP didn't say that mobile champions have more damage than immobile champions, he said that mobile champions STILL do a lot of damage and he is right

Kukan Seishin7 votes

You jsut aren't fond of looking at things are you?

Ok, lets do this,

Q has to hit twice for it to work, also 35% ap ratio

W, 1st hit does full damage, last two deal 35% of that, also 40% ap ratio

E, thin line skill shot, 50% ap ratio, the highest ap ratio ability in her kit can only be used once and is not guaranteed to hit in her burst combo.

R, Ap ratio is 30% the WORST AP SCALING in her ENTIRE kit is her R

W+Q 500 Since you think it is so great, lets compare it to oh I don't know Leblanc, another mobile mid laner Mage. Her W + Q Will do (at max rank as base damage) 100 from W + 195 from Q + 300 from passive, which is 595, and guess what (she was just gutted and she still does more base damage) You can't make the argument that Ahri has high damage after you look how her kit's damage and her horrendous scaling works.

"A 7/0 Ahri one shot me" Any mid lane mage 7/0 will one shot you.

legionnaire999 votes

Ahri mid damage is 25/189

the reason there 189 is like Karthus is on there 2 time one for mid and one for top. http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=ascend

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Wat?

crippler386 votes

that's a list for damage dealt by champions mid, karthus is on there twice despite making it 189 instead of 188.

karthus is of course #1 because of obvious reasons that are still not announced with a global laugh.

ModAcademy Kayn12 votes

Those base damages are late game. Add that all up, and you have about over half someone's HP, while she's on the lower end of Scaling ability Ratios.

Compare to Syndra:

  • Q: 230 damage while only needing to hit once (Ahri's needs to hit twice to get 280).

  • W: 230 Base damage (While also doing 20% bonus true damage at max Rank) 276 damage

  • E: 250 Base

  • R: 540 damage with only the 3 Orbs from her normal ult. A single Q pushes that up to 720.

Meanwhile, let's note the diferences. Syndra can do all her abilities from 750+ Range away when level 18 (675 before). Syndra has 75%, 70%, 50%, and 60% (with 20% more per orb to her ult) scalings on all her abilities. Syndra can hit you with a stun from 1100 range away, with a high projectile speed (2500 speed on her E and Orb follow up), and stuns for 2.25 Seconds base.

Ahri has all her scalings only has a 70% on Q (IF you hit both parts), 64% on her W (IF you hit all the bolts), 50% on her E, and 30% per dash on her ult (90% total IF she uses every dash Offensively.). Ahri's highest range ability is her E at 975 range, with Q following up at 880. Her undodgable abilities W-R are 550-600 Respectively. That is incredibly low range for a Mage. Ahri's E speed is 1600, and can be blocked by minions, and Charms you for 2 seconds at max rank, but only 1 second at 1st rank.

But that's late game. Let's look at how much damage they do at level 6.

Ahri does 514 damage total with both hits of Q, W, E, and all three hits from R (which means she used all her dashes offensively)

Syndra does 640 from a Single Q, W, E- and a 4 sphere Ult.

That is a 126 damage difference, and Syndra can do all that from 675 range away, while Ahri had to be within 550 range to confirm all of her damage (not to mention her W has range for each individual flame, so if a minion is within 550 range behind you, you could quite easily lose damage, once the flames start to move).

At level 6, Ahri leaves 316 health left on a 830 health target squishy, while Syndra would leave 190, which puts a huge margin of how much more it would take to kill the person. If we include level 6 ignite damage (170) , Syndra needs a single Auto attack to kill a target, while Ahri would need to land both parts of her Q, without access to her dashes or E, (or 3 basic attacks at .66 Attack Speed)

Not to mention, due to the 1 second static CD on her dashes, her time to kill is lengthened by 2 seconds alone due to needing to hit all 3 of her dashes. Syndra's Time to kill with a Basic 4 sphere combo, can be done at optimal range within those 2 seconds alone. Ahri would need to stick around for either another Q CD, or 1.92 seconds for 3 autos (assuming they're not auto'ing during Combo, but that still adds in Time for an Auto to complete).

So yes, in context of how much effort, Ahri does do less damage than most mages, and has to hit every single aspect of her kit to do so. A missed Syndra Q still contributes 90 damage to her Ult. At level 6, there is no way for Ahri to 100-0 you within the time for Charm to wear off, so you can actually react and fight back while she stays WELL withing any Mage or Assassins range, since she is using every single Dash Offensively.

SzGamer22725 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v1ErAWcP,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-03-29T22:07:22.666+0000)

Compare to Syndra:

Hold it right there.

{quoted}

OP didn't say that mobile champions have more damage than immobile champions, he said that mobile champions STILL do a lot of damage and he is right

That will be all.

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

Well fucking course they do damage. They're mages, fighters, ADCs. Why the fuck wouldn't they do damage? The difference being, is when Mobile people do not pay for their mobility, and Ahri clearly does pay for hers with less damage than Immobile Mages, and less range than other mages.

And what the hell are you comparing Mobile people too, if you're not comparing them to immobile people?? Minions?

SzGamer2271 votes

It's not a comparison to any other class at all. It's just being stated that the combination of burst damage and mobility is frustrating to play against. That is all.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

But to say that it's frustrating means you're comparing it to the idea of non-frustrating damage. And then, how do we define non-frustrating damage? If the Constant variable here is Damage, with Mobility being the trait that's the difference between some damage dealers, than you're comparing Damage to people without mobility, who instead have range/other traits.

You can't say "This does too much damage" without having a baseline to compare that too. Because I've shown the difference between a Champ with mobility and a champ without mobility. One can actually one shot you within a CC's duration. The other can't unless fed. How is that Ahri doing burst damage.

SzGamer2272 votes

Non-frustrating damage exists. Damage from an immobile juggernaut for example is not as frustrating because you know exactly where it's going and to stay away from it.

Getting 100-0'd is frustrating simply because you got 100-0'd. Having a large portion of your health bar destroyed by a slippery hypermobile champion is frustrating because they're hard to lock down if you survive the encounter, and you're likely going to have to back if you survive.

It's not comparing "too much damage" to "fair amount of damage". It's comparing "this feels fair" and "this is frustrating".

DrCyanide12 votes

Comparing to my main, Xerath:

Q: Ahri's deals 40 more base damage, at the cost of 5% AP scaling. So when both champions are at 800 AP they'll do the same amount of damage, except even then Xerath will do less because half of Ahri's will be True Damage.

W: more or less a draw, reliant on hitting the target a certain way. Ahri landing 1 tick does 40 base, 20% AP less than base Xerath. Ahri landing 2 deals 2 base damage more, still 8% scaling less. Ahri landing all 3 deals 44 base more, 4% AP more. If Xerath can hit a target dead center he deals more again, an extra 46 base and 26% AP.

E: Ahri deals 5% AP more, and the duration is going to be longer unless the target is at max range.

R: Xerath out damages if he can use it and land enough shots, while Ahri gets auto targeting if she's in range. Comparing shot to dash, Xerath deals 110 base, 13% AP more. A lot of the difference here comes down to mobility and usability. Ahri can use her ultimate to escape and reposition, helping all her other abilities to actually land. Xerath has to stop everything else to use it.


All in all, Ahri doesn't seem that far behind, and what she is behind her mobility easily makes up for.

Kukan Seishin3 votes

Poke mage vs kite mage you are comparing there bud... Good comparison though I like

DrCyanide10 votes
  • Both Q's are for poke (2 second CD difference max, negated a bit because Xerath charges up to ౩ seconds)
  • Both W's provide additional damage
  • Both E's are single target hard CC that deal damage on impact
  • Both Ults are multi-shot damage dealing spells
  • Both passives are even for sustain (Ahri's for health, Xerath's for mana)

It's about as close a comparison as you can make. Besides, there was no specification made about comparing Ahri to a kite mage.

Edit: In fact, comparing Ahri to a kite mage would have been pointless. There OP is about comparing mobile champions damage vs immobile champions damage.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Ahri is a kite mage as it stands Only can she act as an assassin when she gets a lead, as her abilites scaling doesn't normally allow her to burst people in one combo

DrCyanide12 votes

Xerath is an artillery mage that can act like a burst mage when his AP gets high enough, what's your point?

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Any mage can act like an assassin at one point, just that assassins usually have mobility, but Ahri is kite mage unless fed where she can act like both Xerath is artillery mage unless fed then can be an artillery mage AND an assassin... Did I have to have a point? I don't know if I can find a point. Uhhh.... People are downvoting me without commenting and joining in the conversation cause if they said anything they would sound stupid like my math skills. There :)

Terozu3 votes

People aren't joining in because, I don't think any of them actually know what the argument is, which one are you guys saying is stronger?

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

Wan is talking how Ahri doesn't do Burst Damage (Like 100-0 before the CC wears off), unless hilariously ahead, while Cyanide is arguing the same applies to anyone.

The original argument idea is that Xerath has the same base damages, but has more range. Ahri has the same base damages, but has mobility. Cyanide argues that her mobility makes up MORE than the offput should be for having mobility, while Wan argues that isn't the case.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Except Xerath has a lot of nice Range with his abilities (700-1400, 1100, 1050 Q,W,E respectively). If you're fighting her from your Max Q length distance, she'd need two dashes alone to get near you.

DrCyanide4 votes

She has the lowest base damages and scaling of any other mid laner

That was the claim I was looking at addressing, and on that point they're comparable on their basic abilities. You could argue that Xerath loses some damage as well as any mobility in exchange for his extreme range, but that's another topic all together.

GorillaBearz14 votes

Yasuo fuck this guy

Terozu8 votes

But he is so fucking squishy, once his shields are down he dies in 3 hits to just just about anyone.

Votable Jester16 votes

Once his shield is down and his windwall is down and he's still in range of you and he hasn't engaged on you and he doesn't dodge anything with his E.

Then he dies easily.

Horse Grenades2 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo fuck this guy

he will forever be my ban until reworked or deleted

Micbran11 votes

Is this the hidden Ahri circlejerk

Bladerunner77779 votes

So champs that kite your mains are your least favorite?

k

WinTheWarOnPants9 votes

Ahri get's a little unfair hate when it comes to mobility. Aside from her Q ms, boost(which needs to be looked as for sure) she is completely immobile pre 6 and even after 6 her mobility is on an ult's CD. I don't even play ahri so don't give me the "ahri fan boy" crap. I'm an Eve one trick(she's immobile FYI).

i agree, but find it odd that you list Ahri and not LeeSin Camille Katarina Leblanc Riven Shaco Talon Yasuo Zed who all have multiple dashes pre 6 and some get more dashes or self peel after 6

Fur Fox Sake3 votes

THISSSS

TyrekGoldenspear8 votes

Your rant has some truth to it...

But then we remember you're playing Morde, and Brand is hypermobile compared to him. :P

######kappaplsdontkillme

aqours fanboy7 votes

Ekko

shrug

Erractic Eick5 votes

OH MY GOD. MALICIOUS METAL CHANGED HIS ICON.

IT'S THE END OF AN ERA, BOYS.

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