Why the new jungle is harder

JC DarkOmen··7 votes·1,348 views

There are a lot of people complaining about how hard the new jungle is, saying "junglers can't get ahead" or "only sustain junglers are good" or "razorbeaks killed me". While I do have to agree that Rito went a little too ham on the razorbeaks, let's think about what it means to have a harder jungle.

First off, it deters laners from stealing jungle farm to do some gimmicky strat for xp. Coming into lane lvl 2 simply because you're on blue side isn't fair.

Next it does increase diversity. Compare Warwick to Evelynn in last season. If she so wanted, Eve could stay in the jungle farming all game because she had enough sustain to do so. However, she is much better suited for walking into a lane and ruining her enemies' days. Meanwhile, Warwick, whose only strength was sustain and a 1.5 second lockdown, could also farm in the jungle all game if he chooses. But his ganks without an ultimate were poor compared to Eve's. No gap closers, no speed steroids, no cc, no damage steroids, no resistance debuffs, nothing. Either come in with an ult or just go back to the jung, because you're relying on your laner to set up the kill and if it's that easy for them to do so, then why do they need you? Why use sustain junglers in the first place if literally anyone can farm the jungle? Fast forward to this preseason. Warwick still has ridiculous sustain. You can literally spend the entire game in the jungle, and maybe you'll use both of those health pots. Meanwhile Eve was so weak she was singled out for an armor buff. Why is this? Because she's not meant to be a sustain jungler. Now, the Warwicks and Udyrs and Aatroxes and Fiddlestickses and... you know, all of them, are singled out because of their ability to do one simple thing: farm. Now what about the Eves and the Elises and the Akalis and the Kha'zi- wait, why are you jungling Akali? GG, ff @ 20, report Akali for trolling. Anyway, junglers such as them are now forced to do what they did best: gank. Now sure, they need to farm as well, and they can. Wolves, Gromp, and buffs are all pretty easy, and that scuttler is a tasty snack. And eventually you'll be able to kill doubles and razorbeaks by yourself. But the simple fact of the matter is a champ shouldn't be able to sustain infinitely in the jungle and still gank well. With the new jungle, it separates gankers from farmers.

To further that point, look at the new items. You've got two choices: if you're a farming jungler, you can focus on farming your side item 3713 or farming their side item 3711 . If you're a ganking jungler, you can either stick to enemies more easily item 3706 or do more damage to them item 3715 . Then there's the upgrades which are basically like last season: feral flare item 3726, SotAG item 3725, SotEL item 3723, and SotSW item 3724.

The only real problem I see with the new jungle is noobs. Until you hit lvl 20 and get full rune pages the jungle will be hard as hell. Thankfully most of the jungle stuff is in the first couple of rows in masteries so you should be good by the time people start using junglers.

Anyway, thoughts? Additions? Contradictions?

14 Comments

Jamnon7 votes

the simple fact of the matter is a champ shouldn't be able to sustain infinitely in the jungle and still gank well.

LeeSin

Joe Dredd4 votes

He doesn't sustain infinitely early, and if he maxes W first then he isn't ganking well.

Kingsgrave2 votes
Leti the Yeti2 votes

I'm bothered by the fact Junglers have problems but Riot goes outa their way to make changes to Jungle because of laners....

Wheatloaf1 votes

Part of it was laners stealing their jungler's stuff. Not cool, man.

causeimdabatman1 votes

{quoted}

Part of it was laners stealing their jungler's stuff. Not cool, man. I honestly don't see a problem with that. If the jungler gives the ok and a lane wants to use one of their resources to get ahead i don't see why rito is FUCKING EVERYTHING UP.

junglerboy161 votes

TL;DR: Because Riot made it harder.

On a more serious note, I have to agree. The jungle is RIDICULOUSLY hard when you are sub 20 with no runes (I started preseason at 18 and decided to just play a crapton of games to get up to 20 after playing for a year because of how brutal the new jungle was). After that point, if you main jungle or have half a brain to figure out stuff and experiment, it becomes easy, with or without sustain junglers. If you pick a ganker, expect the jungle to hurt—A LOT. If you are a sustain jungler, then good for you, but you still have to make sure the other jungler doesn't counter snowball your lanes while you are farming. Riot has actually done a whole lot of good with this new season so far, and with balance issues getting ironed out rapidly and consistently (they have a bunch of buffs for Hecarim, Nautilus, and Skarner on the PBE since they are currently having a harder time than they should). Of course there will be a lot of imbalance and stand out junglers that need to be addressed (4.20 WW, Lee sin, Evelyn, etc.), but as of right now, Riot is addressing every issue as it arises and is keeping largely on top of things.

causeimdabatman1 votes

{quoted}

TL;DR: Because Riot made it harder.

On a more serious note, I have to agree. The jungle is RIDICULOUSLY hard when you are sub 20 with no runes (I started preseason at 18 and decided to just play a crapton of games to get up to 20 after playing for a year because of how brutal the new jungle was). After that point, if you main jungle or have half a brain to figure out stuff and experiment, it becomes easy, with or without sustain junglers. If you pick a ganker, expect the jungle to hurt—A LOT. If you are a sustain jungler, then good for you, but you still have to make sure the other jungler doesn't counter snowball your lanes while you are farming. Riot has actually done a whole lot of good with this new season so far, and with balance issues getting ironed out rapidly and consistently (they have a bunch of buffs for Hecarim, Nautilus, and Skarner on the PBE since they are currently having a harder time than they should). Of course there will be a lot of imbalance and stand out junglers that need to be addressed (4.20 WW, Lee sin, Evelyn, etc.), but as of right now, Riot is addressing every issue as it arises and is keeping largely on top of things.

naut was just nerfed....

junglerboy161 votes

I guess that depends on how you look at it, I thought they were supposed to be buffs for his shield, but I could be wrong. Nerfing the base scaling but giving it a huge max hp scaling seemed like a big buff to me when I read it.

causeimdabatman1 votes

{quoted}

I guess that depends on how you look at it, I thought they were supposed to be buffs for his shield, but I could be wrong. Nerfing the base scaling but giving it a huge max hp scaling seemed like a big buff to me when I read it.

Hes shiled was lowered which is a huge nerf for naut

Kingsgrave1 votes

{quoted}

Hes shiled was lowered which is a huge nerf for naut

it scales with Total health instead of Bonus health so you effectively have the same shield early and 150+ more shield mid to late game. Its a buff at all levels and ranks.

causeimdabatman1 votes

{quoted}

it scales with Total health instead of Bonus health so you effectively have the same shield early and 150+ more shield mid to late game. Its a buff at all levels and ranks.

yeah but early game that puts him at a huge disadvantage unless you rush hp but if you rush hp you sacrifice tankiness or a little bit of ap. When i jungle naut i usually get item 3027 as like my 3 or 4th item, now you can't do that anymore because your shield doesn't scale off ap. But not only that the values were lowered too

junglerboy161 votes

His shield never scaled off of AP, so it doesn't nerf ROA on him at all. The DoT effect did scale with it, but they have only changed how the shield itself scales, not anything else as far as I have seen.

The Ellimiist1 votes

Tbh they should just mirror the jungle and allow the poaching if its causing all this trouble. only reason they even want to stop it is that both sides cant do it.

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