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Do the Irelia nerfs even target what people see as the problem?

Irelia Bot··3 votes·2,470 views

I don't think so. Most seem to think her mobility is over the top and I rarely if ever actually saw anyone raging about her ult's Disarm or passive doing extra damage to shields.

And this is why I know that more nerfs are going to happen likely in 9.5 or 9.6. I don't know what those nerfs will be and since they seem set on her resets being the core of her identity which seems to be one of the main reasons why people hate facing her more nerfs will miss the goals again.

But making the marks be say a 70% cooldown reduction instead of a reset does not match the "identity" riot want for Irelia. Yet it would still be rewarding to land the marks as any pre rework Irelia player will tell you having to use Q to engage in a fight never felt good. It would not be as fluid as it has been after the rework and you would need to build CDR like before the rework but it would still bbe a sub 4 second cooldown at all points of the game after Qing to a marked target.

And so more nerfs are on the PBE and more are going to follow. None seem to actually address what makes her banned and played so much.

Dare I say all of the nerfs so far could be reverted if the resets were changed to 70% cooldowns? Likely not all but most.

18 Comments

chipndip13 votes

I don't think you realize how bad Irelia would be if you made it so she couldn't dash fluidly.

Hint: As bad or worse than her previous iteration.

PrismalDawn3 votes

Well that's the point.

There is no reason she should be able to use her Q with no repercussions.

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you realize how bad Irelia would be if you made it so she couldn't dash fluidly.

Hint: As bad or worse than her previous iteration.

I don't think it would be as bad as some fear. Other relevancies would be allowed to be stronger such as stun duration or W damage reduction not being nerfed.

And it isn't like the reset on kills would be gone making the classic leapfrog to a minion next to the enemy would be more important.

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

The "only can really use her dash to clear minions and then leapfrog to a champ and auto them to death" is like the whole reason she got reworked. They want her dash to be her whole identity, it's the whole thing about her

Irelia Bot2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urzXIsan,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-17T04:22:03.146+0000)

The "only can really use her dash to clear minions and then leapfrog to a champ and auto them to death" is like the whole reason she got reworked. They want her dash to be her whole identity, it's the whole thing about her

And what do you do when the Dash reset proves to be something that is always pick or ban when everything else is getting removed?

An identity can be the problem.

Hayaishi21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urzXIsan,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-17T03:38:16.061+0000)

I don't think it would be as bad as some fear. Other relevancies would be allowed to be stronger such as stun duration or W damage reduction not being nerfed.

And it isn't like the reset on kills would be gone making the classic leapfrog to a minion next to the enemy would be more important.

????

How can u call yourself Irelia bot?

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

????

How can u call yourself Irelia bot?

How could I play Irelia since season 2 and find her enjoyable before the rework?

Hayaishi21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urzXIsan,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2019-01-17T04:25:45.796+0000)

How could I play Irelia since season 2 and find her enjoyable before the rework?

Then you would know current Irelia can't function without 100% dash reset. I mean YOU SHOULD know it. Her whole kit is made to facilitate that.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

Then you would know current Irelia can't function without 100% dash reset. I mean YOU SHOULD know it. Her whole kit is made to facilitate that.

She can be changed to work without it being a reset. Don't think for a second that having a 1.5 to 2 second cooldown between Q's that are resets from marks can not be balanced. This is still substantially shorter tha nmost dash cooldowns and an improvement over the down time of her before the rework.

You just have to put power elsewhere be it Q damage back up to .8, E stun duration nerfs reverted and some base stat improvements among other things like higher base movement speed.

chipndip13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urzXIsan,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2019-01-17T04:25:45.796+0000)

How could I play Irelia since season 2 and find her enjoyable before the rework?

NOW I get it.

Somehow you think Irelia pre-rework was somehow not garbage, so you think being more like that Irelia would somehow be an improvement.

I mean, if you want your champ to be useless, sure. It's kind of like those Akali mains that keep saying "Remove Obscurity so people stop banning Akali" without realizing that without Obscurity, Akali literally cannot turret dive efficiently anymore. These specific kit aspects that people keep acting as if they're the devil incarnate are core parts of these reworked designs. You can't just up and remove them. Most of their logistics are designed around their existence.

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

NOW I get it.

Somehow you think Irelia pre-rework was somehow not garbage, so you think being more like that Irelia would somehow be an improvement.

I mean, if you want your champ to be useless, sure. It's kind of like those Akali mains that keep saying "Remove Obscurity so people stop banning Akali" without realizing that without Obscurity, Akali literally cannot turret dive efficiently anymore. These specific kit aspects that people keep acting as if they're the devil incarnate are core parts of these reworked designs. You can't just up and remove them. Most of their logistics are designed around their existence.

And yet removing the passive increased damage against shields and the disarm is just fine to remove.

I don't see Irelia's ban rate or pick rate dropping much if at all from these changes. And more nerfs will happen in a few patches when these nerfs fail to deliver desired results.

I am asking for the nerfs that should have happen from the start. If need be I want Irelia to be a trash or lackluster competitive pick and an alright solo queue pick again.

chipndip14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urzXIsan,comment-id=000000010001000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-17T05:47:48.997+0000)

And yet removing the passive increased damage against shields and the disarm is just fine to remove.

Unironically...yes it is.

Damage to shields is just fluff that's hardly necessarily. The disarm thing is niche in availability, but not so much in application. Removing it allows for other fighters and jugs to wail on her in top lane, but the extra damage still gives her the edge when diving back liners.

I don't see Irelia's ban rate or pick rate dropping much if at all from these changes. And more nerfs will happen in a few patches when these nerfs fail to deliver desired results.

Irelia is one of those champions that will be perma-banned until she's straight up not LCS viable.

However, just because she's LCS viable, that doesn't mean she's deserving of a high solo queue ban rate.

You're only going to get the "desired results" when Irelia is a shit champion. It's the same thing Zoe went through when she was shit for a few months and then slowly crawled her way out of the dumpster when people stopped worrying about her and started worrying about newer releases. If you want Irelia balanced around every Silver or Bronzie that gets salty when one FINALLY doesn't feed, I guess you like your champions with massive holes in them...for leaking elo.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

Unironically...yes it is.

Damage to shields is just fluff that's hardly necessarily. The disarm thing is niche in availability, but not so much in application. Removing it allows for other fighters and jugs to wail on her in top lane, but the extra damage still gives her the edge when diving back liners.

Irelia is one of those champions that will be perma-banned until she's straight up not LCS viable.

However, just because she's LCS viable, that doesn't mean she's deserving of a high solo queue ban rate.

You're only going to get the "desired results" when Irelia is a shit champion. It's the same thing Zoe went through when she was shit for a few months and then slowly crawled her way out of the dumpster when people stopped worrying about her and started worrying about newer releases. If you want Irelia balanced around every Silver or Bronzie that gets salty when one FINALLY doesn't feed, I guess you like your champions with massive holes in them...for leaking elo.

Zoe and Yasuo are both in a pepetual state of one buff away from being perma banned again. Yasuo is after all the most banned champ again.

I want Irelia out of that state of limbo.

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you realize how bad Irelia would be if you made it so she couldn't dash fluidly.

Hint: As bad or worse than her previous iteration.

People just don't play this game lmao.

robotmaster3 votes

My problem with her is that she can outplay you in the early game really easy while out scaling you in the late game. So the pbe nerfs is a good start if you ask me.

Tremaursen3 votes

My primary issue with her has always been that she has some of the best farming in the game while being one of the better early game champs while ALSO being one of the absolute best snowball and lategame champs. She has no disadvantageous state at any point in the game, and while I think there is room for champions like that in League, a champion that is good at everything should never be the best at anything.

And again, for me this typically boils down to her insane farming potential, which is all in her Q. Currently, it's a free mobility infinite reset that gives her sustain, with mana costs that make Udyr blush. It's actually advantageous for her farming if you push wave into tower because of how insanely effective and versatile the ability is. I understand it's being nerfed in PBE but I do not feel the crux of the issue is being addressed, which is it's overall ease of use and mana cost. It's only going to be slightly harder to farm, and I don't understand why one of the best scaling champs in the game has to work half as hard to get that scaling compared to other champs.

Seriously, Irelia lanes without sacrifice or compromise and these nerfs change none of that. I would expect that if a champion that simply will be stronger than me late game decides to strongarm my waves in the early game, then they would not also be able to have no mana worries as they trade. Again, and I can't say it enough, Irelia is all strengths and no compromise, a fact made worse by her build path and Runes. Of course everyone knows we can all unanimously agree Conqueror needs to removed from the game, but that's a discussion for a different thread.

SithesisLord1 votes

Riot is just firing everywhere because they don´t know what else to do with Irelia.

Just like with Camille and Akali, number changes don´t work on her.

Sire Hippington1 votes

For me, it atleast targets two good things: Removeing the anti shield makes her less overbearing in some situations and removes some totally unneeded and gimicky power from her Nerfing the Q damage vs minions nerfs her in lane mobillity, CSing and makes it a bit harder to stack her passive in lane.

I'm not sure on the ult, i really don't have that much issues with the disarm and i think more damage and slow will make it even stronger for teamfights and for the all-in in mid so that changes probably misses the mark. I think an option would be lowering her Q damage vs marked targets. I'm fine with her resets and the mobillity, as a 'battle dancer' that's fitting and part of her identity. The burst she can get with those resets however is to big for her, she should be more about sustained damage, useing her high mobillity to stay on targets rather than working like an assasins.

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