Sure there are a few abilities that should remain point and click but I believe that ALL executes should be skillshots(Garen R, Darius R, CHogath R) Garen's could be in the shape of the sword and if it hits the execute damages the enemy, same with Darius but his could be an axe, etc.
Personally I believe90% of all abilities should be able to be dodged if you have the mechanics to do so, I'd only keep auto attack resets.
Sukishoo5 votesIf you want a game full on SKILL SHOTS, try SMITE (even Autos are Skill oriented). League will never be that.
ZackTheWaffleMan4 votesOr Battlerite
redniwediS2 votesLeague isn't a purely mechanical game. It never has been, and it never should be. Players who are not great at complex mechanics, but can read the map and apply their knowledge of macro play effectively, need champions they can play well. This is why point and click abilities, particularly strong ones on champions that have very simple kits, should still exist.
Let's use Garen as an example. Garen's kit is stupidly simple, and has very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. He has no significant mechanics to his kit. His R, the point and click execute, can only be cast from close range (400 units), which works with the fact that he is easily kited. The basic counterplay to his design also works against this strong point and click ability. You don't dodge his execute with mechanical skill, you dodge it with knowledge of the matchup and by applying his counterplay correctly.
Honestly, issues like this where people want more mechanics and less knowledge are why so many skilled players are stuck in gold/low plat. It's not enough to be able to hit your buttons quickly and accurately, you have to learn about macro play.
feintfiend1 votesLeague isn't a purely mechanical game. It never has been, and it never should be. Players who are not great at complex mechanics, but can read the map and apply their knowledge of macro play effectively, need champions they can play well. This is why point and click abilities, particularly strong ones on champions that have very simple kits, should still exist.
Let's use Garen as an example. Garen's kit is stupidly simple, and has very clearly defined strengths and weaknesses. He has no significant mechanics to his kit. His R, the point and click execute, can only be cast from close range (400 units), which works with the fact that he is easily kited. The basic counterplay to his design also works against this strong point and click ability. You don't dodge his execute with mechanical skill, you dodge it with knowledge of the matchup and by applying his counterplay correctly.
Honestly, issues like this where people want more mechanics and less knowledge are why so many skilled players are stuck in gold/low plat. It's not enough to be able to hit your buttons quickly and accurately, you have to learn about macro play.
Garen is the perfect example of when being a simple champion goes wrong. Ever since his buffs he is an S tier top lane -pick that absolutely shits on many matchups with no thought put in and its annoying. Simple champions can easily become broken since simple champions are usually balls of stats.
redniwediS2 votesYou're referring to the buff he got three months ago, even though he only recently started having a win rate above 50%?
Garen is nowhere near an S tier pick. The meta shifted, and champions that shit on Garen are seeing less play, where champions that have always done poorly against Garen are. Playing any champion that counters Garen still counters him just as hard, which would put him in A tier at most, which is actually where game statistic sites are placing him.
If his buffs from three months ago did this his win rate would have gone up three months ago. His current win rate is because he makes for an excellent counterpick in the current meta, not because he is broken.
EDIT: Garen's win rate specifically went up in patch 8.13, and the last buff he got was patch 8.9.
Jamaree1 votesThey have been phasing them out slowly.
feintfiend1 votesThey have been phasing them out slowly.
for the better imo
feintfiend1 votesTo all these people downvoting me can you actually voice your opinions instead of point and click downvoting me
DrCyanide4 votesfeintfiend1 votes
- Targeted abilities are useful for countering mobility, particularly extreme mobility.
- Your ability to dodge depends heavily on your champion's kit. It's far harder to dodge as Viktor than as LeBlanc.
99% of champions need mobiliity. this mobility would be used to dodge skillshots. Also mobility isn't alawys need to dodge skillshots but it should be an option for virtually every champion ,other ways to dodge them include proper positioning behind minions or predicting where they will land.
DrCyanide2 votes99% of champions need mobiliity. this mobility would be used to dodge skillshots.
And this is the problem with League of Legends right now. I agree, most champions need that mobility for the current game, but a lot of champions don't have that. Taking away tools that exist to counter the advantage of mobility is not a solution.
Colton1471 votes
lolipopevelynn1 votesSure there are a few abilities that should remain point and click but I believe that ALL executes should be skillshots(Garen R, Darius R, CHogath R) Garen's could be in the shape of the sword and if it hits the execute damages the enemy, same with Darius but his could be an axe, etc.
Personally I believe90% of all abilities should be able to be dodged if you have the mechanics to do so, I'd only keep auto attack resets.
they have been doing that for years now... when was the last champion with a point and click damage ability released or reworked?
Khristophoros1 votes"if you have the mechanics" means what exactly? A lot of skills can't be dodged with normal movement. Like Eve's ult. You pretty much have to predict flash it.
feintfiend1 votes"if you have the mechanics" means what exactly? A lot of skills can't be dodged with normal movement. Like Eve's ult. You pretty much have to predict flash it.
The point is that every new champion/VGU needs some form of mobility so they all have the chance to dodge abilities and live but the need to time their dodges right/predict opponent
Khristophoros3 votesThis will ruin the game. Some situations you're not supposed to escape from because you got in that situation due to poor map awareness or decision making.
feintfiend1 votesThis will ruin the game. Some situations you're not supposed to escape from because you got in that situation due to poor map awareness or decision making.
Different opinions I guess. I like the idea that someone can have absolutely horrible macro but their micro is insane and singlehandedly wins matches.
Khristophoros4 votesThis is objectively the wrong opinion. It's like saying somebody should be able to play an RTS with no clue about strategy and win off pure micro.
feintfiend1 votesThis is objectively the wrong opinion. It's like saying somebody should be able to play an RTS with no clue about strategy and win off pure micro.
"objectively wrong opinion" huh that makes 0 sense. Turnbased games are very different than league which is dynamic and because of the skillcaps of certain champions, LoL values micro skill expression much more that RTS games so your comparison isn't a fair one. I just believe that mobile midlaners(Yasuo ,New Akali, etc) should be able to regularly 1v2 an enemy mid and jungler of lower skill as long as the situation isn't too dire like they're under enemy turret when it happens.
redniwediS2 votesLoL does value micro skill quite a bit, but it has always balanced it with a healthy amount of macro skill. This game was never designed to only work with one.
There are games out there that are, and they allow you to express your micro play to whatever end you're capable of, but those games are typically arena focused and not objective focused.
Mobile midlaners can currently 1v2 regularly and reliably, but it takes a bit of knowledge to know which fights you can win and which ones you cannot. That is macro play, and that is what League should always require from the players that actively try to improve.
feintfiend1 votesLoL does value micro skill quite a bit, but it has always balanced it with a healthy amount of macro skill. This game was never designed to only work with one.
There are games out there that are, and they allow you to express your micro play to whatever end you're capable of, but those games are typically arena focused and not objective focused.
Mobile midlaners can currently 1v2 regularly and reliably, but it takes a bit of knowledge to know which fights you can win and which ones you cannot. That is macro play, and that is what League should always require from the players that actively try to improve.
Yeah obviously you macro to get to high elo, but in silver-plat micro should be the deciding factor unless one team is very organized and secures towers and objectives quickly.
redniwediS1 votesThat has been the case for years, with the roughly agreed upon point where macro starts taking over being early plat.
Riot has been pushing things toward team play for years, and slowly moving the macro point earlier, but the recent changes for snowballing have pushed it back again.
Khristophoros3 votesLoL values micro skill expression much more that RTS games so your comparison isn't a fair one.
It's quite the opposite. RTS games require you to micromanage multiple units while managing all your economy and unit production. It's so insanely micro intensive it hurts. But it's also really strategic. Both aspects are fundamental.
LoL is more slanted towards strategy. You're suggesting that a player should get away with completely not having a fundamental part of their skillset.
1v2 situationally is ok though. It's been a thing in both DotA and LoL forever. That doesn't mean you should be able to carry games without any macro skill though. A lot of how you determine if you can 1v2 is macro.
feintfiend1 votesIt's quite the opposite. RTS games require you to micromanage multiple units while managing all your economy and unit production. It's so insanely micro intensive it hurts. But it's also really strategic. Both aspects are fundamental.
LoL is more slanted towards strategy. You're suggesting that a player should get away with completely not having a fundamental part of their skillset.
1v2 situationally is ok though. It's been a thing in both DotA and LoL forever. That doesn't mean you should be able to carry games without any macro skill though. A lot of how you determine if you can 1v2 is macro.
Wouldn't a turn based game require less micro than LoL because LoL is in real time and you have to execute in the moment while in an RTS game you have plenty of time and planning so it would require more macro since you can take in the situation. If someone is a god tier riven but over extended they should 100% be able to 2v1 a jax and evelynn if riven has R up. That 2v1 took micro.
Khristophoros2 votesRTS stands for real time strategy. Starcraft is an example of an RTS.
And yes the Riven can 1v2 that with good mechanics, but she should be aware of where every other enemy is before committing to that.
So my point is if she commits to the 1v2 but it turns out to be a 1v5 she should lose in that situation. That's why macro is still and should still be important even for the players with god like mechanics. Tracking the enemy team should matter.
SugeMinPikk1 votesLeague needs low-barrier-to-entry champions.
Khristophoros1 votesSkillshots aren't inherently harder for new players. They are usually longer range so the champ is safer to play, like Ezreal.
feintfiend1 votesLeague needs low-barrier-to-entry champions.
True, most of the low barrier to entry champions use auto resets(Garen Q, Darius W, etc). I'm pretty sure auto resets aren't point and click. What I find cancerous is when a mage point and clicks me to death from 500 range.
Deneviel1 votesDamage creep is an issue that just recently hard hitted LOL ( while always present ). Till now we suffered a way more subdle problematic and it's the Mobility creep.
Players want to do flashy thing with their champ and devs in those years provvided them what they wanted ..... Once Kassadin was an abomination with his Riftwalk .... today barely recognized as mobile champ due to his mana issue on consecutive casts.
PaC skills are the only thing that counter this escalation.
BTW with every rework they are slowly removing lots of PaC skills, preserving only the iconic ones, and this is why champ like are so boring to face.
Some example of PaC lost during reworks:
lost Q and R
Lost Q and E
Preserved her iconic Q but lost E
Lost Q ( I really miss his old point and click stun T_T )
Lost E
Lost R and Q ( the new Q it's more like a enchanted auto )
Lost E
lost his E+Q snipe combo and R
Lost E and R
