With Sterak's gage being nerfed Morde's in an even worse state

Malicious Metal·Feb 12, 2016·127 votes·4,917 views

It happened before with the Trinity force changes and it will happen again with Sterak's gage. Mordekaiser relies heavily on his itemisation due to his abysmally low base values and needs to invest in defense early to not die like the squishiest mage.

And now with Steraks gage, an item that's SUPPOSED to be a Juggernaut core choice, losing 100 health Morde's getting once again shafted by changes to his items.

This could easily be avoided if Sterak's gage was limited to melee only like Hydra but Riot will probably stick to their usual agenda of nerfing the items instead of certain champions abusing them.

//rant//

92 Comments

Timely VoidlingFeb 12, 201635 votes

[deleted]

YumaS2AstralFeb 12, 201620 votes

[{quoted}](name=PinkEye Punisher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-12T15:42:46.884+0000)

Riot logic:

"We see that certain champions like are abusing this item's stat's, so to fix this we're going to nerf it for everyone instead of making it a melee only item."

Plot twist:

On a future patch, Riot will nerf this item, making it melee only, but they will not revert the 100 base health nerf.

Just like what they did with Sejuani

Spaceman5pffFeb 12, 20165 votes

I still cry for Sejuani being abused and mistreated by RITO :(

TimewinderFeb 12, 20162 votes

sejuani is actually balanced right now and lots of fun to play

Spaceman5pffFeb 13, 20162 votes

So was she OP before cinderhulk? Because if she is balanced now, remember she was both directly AND indirectly nerfed as a result of cinderhulk, leaving her in a weaker overall state than she already was.

Can't deny she is fun though, thats why I care so much about this

TimewinderFeb 13, 20161 votes

I used to play her a lot before cinderhulk was added, and she was definitely sleeper strong. When cinderhulk was added she was ridiculous. Now I feel she isn't strong or weak; a sejuani ult on a carry without qss will make you win that teamfight. She has good lv 1-5 pressure too, with a slow and knockup.

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20161 votes

thats any cc that you okay enough to land

BiffoloFeb 12, 20163 votes

She's really balanced right now, what the fuck.

Spaceman5pffFeb 13, 20161 votes

If your only measure of balance is op or not op then yeah, she isnt op. She is actually underpowered.

BiffoloFeb 13, 20162 votes

No, she clocks in right about middle performance wise in plat+

Spaceman5pffFeb 14, 20162 votes

Great now get me stats that account for the experience of 75% of league of legends players

BiffoloFeb 14, 20162 votes

Ah, you mean the shitties that don't play right? If challenger had a larger sample size I'd only use that. Reason I use plat+ is because a website does that data collection for me, I don't even think plats play the game right tbh. Diamonds are fine enough to be considered though.

But if you insist, she still has an above 50% win rate with respectable pick rate in other elos, putting here right in the middle of the pack.

Silents429Feb 12, 20162 votes

Just want to jump in here for a clarification: Graves is absolutely not the reason why Sterak's Gage is being nerfed - nor are any other Marksmen.

Looking at usage on that item by Fighters and Tanks only, we're seeing usage rates spike dramatically - it's trending up right now the way Rageblade trended up in patch 5.22. That kind of red flag will get us to look at an item, though it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong. However, in looking at it, we concluded that its stat efficiency is simply too high for its cost; it's worth getting even if you only marginally care about the unique stuff it does, even if you don't have great base Attack Damage.

As a general rule, we try not to change items because of specific champions that change the rules of how stats work in the game (think Ryze with mana, Kog'Maw breaking the AS cap, or Graves devaluing AS and Crit for himself with basic attack rules changes). If we had to balance all of our AS/On Hit items around Kog'Maw, it'd be nearly impossible to make champions like Kayle feel good about their item paths. I won't say that we'll never do it, but it would be a last resort.

Now, we do pay attention to how other classes use items. If Marksmen in general (not just Graves specifically) were the best users of Sterak's Gage, we'd have to balance around that reality. That's not what we're seeing right now - there is some fringe non-Graves non-Kalista marksman usage of the item, but not a lot and it's not 'breaking' the class at this moment.

Riot Axes-

Samflash3Feb 12, 20167 votes

Inb4 next patch morde gets 100 health

Malicious MetalFeb 12, 20167 votes

I would be SO fine with it.

Sahn UzalFeb 13, 20162 votes

You will remember Yorick Mori item 3043 item 3025 item 3053 item 3111 item 3065 item 3742 item 3070 summoner 31

JasiwelFeb 12, 20166 votes

If one item being nerfed drastically affects a champion, then the problem isn't with the item, but with the champion. Riot needs to seriously consider giving Mordekaiser more Base HP like so many other fighters because he's no longer the same mage that wrecked early game to fall off later. Just as they had to give a load of fighters more stats given they were outdated with the progression of the game, Mordekaiser needs to see the same treatment.

If Riot's issue with Sterak's was with its being used a lot by ranged, they would have just made it "melee only" OR reduce its effectiveness on Ranged champions to be less appealing by reducing its stats on Ranged.

That said, the last thing I thought of when Riot nerfed Sterak's was "Graves is OP, so they're nerfing it as a result". Sterak's has been a greatly effective, if not the most effective, item this entire season; nerfing it like they did DMP (literally the same nerf) does not surprise me one bit. The hysteria on these boards sometimes...

kile147Feb 12, 20163 votes

Other champs like Yi and Fiora were abusing it as well. If the juggernauts are weak with this change give them a bit of extra health scaling to compensate.

Dar RaksadaFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Other champs like Yi and Fiora were abusing it as well. If the juggernauts are weak with this change give them a bit of extra health scaling to compensate.

If it's being build on Fiora it's an indication that something is wrong, she's supposed to want bonus ad, not base ad. It could be the item, it could be overall synergy of a bunch of items, or something else, but something is wrong.

kile147Feb 13, 20161 votes

The problem is that Yi and Fiora both have mechanics/items that let them deal very good damage while building tank. Devourer on Yi is so broken that building that and one other damage item is enough to let him destroy anything. People building glass cannon could destroy things faster but a team working together could hopefully cc Yi and kill him before he dropped someone, the bruiser build doubles his assassination time, but almost completely removes that weakness to cc.

Fiora is the same way in that she has to take longer to kill targets, but her passive still gives her enough damage with bruiser items that she ends up being about as threatening as your standard bruiser, but with the mobility and survival mechanics of the light fighter she's supposed to be.

Dar RaksadaFeb 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that Yi and Fiora both have mechanics/items that let them deal very good damage while building tank. Devourer on Yi is so broken that building that and one other damage item is enough to let him destroy anything. People building glass cannon could destroy things faster but a team working together could hopefully cc Yi and kill him before he dropped someone, the bruiser build doubles his assassination time, but almost completely removes that weakness to cc.

Fiora is the same way in that she has to take longer to kill targets, but her passive still gives her enough damage with bruiser items that she ends up being about as threatening as your standard bruiser, but with the mobility and survival mechanics of the light fighter she's supposed to be.

I was referring more to the fact that she isn't meant to value base ad very highly, her passive and ult encourage building bonus ad over regular ad, so Sterak's in particular shouldn't be good on her. But some items are strong enough that they give her enough damage when building tanky, it might be an issue with titanic scaling too hard with AS.

kile147Feb 13, 20161 votes

Its more the shield that it is picked for. Steraks shield synergizes really well with total health, and healing. An emergency shield is nice for surviving burst, but that doesn't do a lot of good if it still takes you out of the fight. Yi and Fiora both have very good heals that let them stay in the fight even after they get bursted to low health, making steraks an attractive choice on them simply because it lets them survive the cc that should normally kill them giving them a chance to heal it off. item 3026 should sorta fill this niche by giving hard carries the ability to survive burst, but it has a much longer cooldown and is much more likely to get them killed immediately after because instead of rewarding you with more damage for surviving the burst, you have to wait for the revive.

The Yetii RiderFeb 12, 20165 votes

Hang on, weren't you JUST saying Mordekaiser was back after the last buffs?

He's got some solo lane power back, and Sterak's synergizes well with Iron Man so I don't think 100 health is that big a concern.

Malicious MetalFeb 12, 201647 votes

100 health IS a lot for Mordekaiser since he has a mere 1700 base health. Also, it doesn't look like much but Morde's iron man scales with 25% of his maximum health so a mere 100 health go a long way.

The Yetii RiderFeb 12, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-02-12T15:32:05.312+0000)

100 health IS a lot for Mordekaiser since he has a mere 1700 base health. Also, it doesn't look like much but Morde's iron man scales with 25% of his maximum health so a mere 100 health go a long way.

Well you can always replace it with a defensive item like Warmog's, Sunfire, DMP or Omen.

YumaS2AstralFeb 12, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Well you can always replace it with a defensive item like Warmog's, Sunfire, DMP or Omen.

Of all items that you mentioned, only Deadman's Plate is really good on Mordekaiser due to his lack of mobility, so the movement speed passive helps. Although Deadman's Plate is currently the strongest defensive item anyway.

La BarbotteFeb 12, 20164 votes

You forget that the big part of sterak and why it is better than warmog/deamans etc is the shield when you suffer dmg that synergise with iron man perfectly and the 25% base AD is super good for morde

TridemFeb 13, 20161 votes

Its ironic really... Deadman's Plate. I guess one man's trash is anothers treasure.

YumaS2AstralFeb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sun Yat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=00000001000000010001,timestamp=2016-02-13T18:01:09.376+0000)

Its ironic really... Deadman's Plate. I guess one man's trash is anothers treasure.

For Mr. Krabs, all trash is treasure.

KhâmulFeb 12, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-02-12T15:32:05.312+0000)

100 health IS a lot for Mordekaiser since he has a mere 1700 base health. Also, it doesn't look like much but Morde's iron man scales with 25% of his maximum health so a mere 100 health go a long way.

I don't agree with you here. I did a comparison with other juggernauts for example (not a lot of people bothered to read it lol http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mhpH21jl-mordekaiser-statuts-and-comparison-with-other-juggernautslong-post ). I was thinking that 1700 base health was shit but in the end,it's fine (talking about maths). His shield is health,so it takes armor and mr into consideration (good reminder). you get your tankiness from your abilities (your E now). that's a lot of hp regeneration. Don't blame his low base health. Blame the Ap itemisation that is lacking for Mordekaiser. Actually,the best I could find were item 3151 item 3116 and item 3170 / item 3090 . Mordekaiser is a beast in the twisted treeline but i have the feeling that SR lacks something

Malicious MetalFeb 12, 20162 votes

Aye, it's a mix of both Imo. His low base stats make him feel way too squishy and lack of viable AP bruiser items doesn't make it easier.

DJ S0NAFeb 13, 20166 votes

That's what bugs me the most. Morde is OKAY now. But he BADLY needs buffed base stats. His health and armor are still garbage. Maybe add movement speed too. Jhin is getting +5 increase, so why Morde can't?

XIII VanitasFeb 12, 20165 votes

That nerf isn't the right choice, imo. Sterak isn't an issue on champions like Morde, Garen and Darius (who are supposed to be the ones that build Sterak). It becomes an issue on champions like Fiora, Graves and Yi because they abuse it. The problem could be solved by changing how Sterak's shield work and making it scale off bonus health instead of max hp.

LOL SpammerFeb 12, 20164 votes

:| Don't you get like that too. You know riot is trying to make the game better and has actually listened to you about stuff on morde. Give them a chance. Rants don't help.

InHaruhiWeTrustFeb 12, 20164 votes

riot condemned Vayne him to the gutter when they let certainlyT rework him. until he gets an actual rework idk what you are expecting. i mean at least he's not Yorick lol he's not the only champ in this terrible position Skarner Aatrox Cassiopeia Galio Kassadin Singed Urgot are all in the same boat and most of them have been there a lot longer than mord.

macromiteFeb 12, 20164 votes

morde built the boat, he was one of the first not allowed to be good ever champions.

Maximum MordeFeb 12, 20162 votes

I never bothered with Sterak's anyway. The power boost from that item just didn't feel like enough oomph for someone who is supposed to be a bully. I got more mileage from Rylais into Liandries, Abyssal, or DMP.

YumaS2AstralFeb 12, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-12T16:03:07.824+0000)

I never bothered with Sterak's anyway. The power boost from that item just didn't feel like enough oomph for someone who is supposed to be a bully. I got more mileage from Rylais into Liandries, Abyssal, or DMP.

The 25% bonus base AD is a welcome addition to any champion that scales with total AD. But the main reason why you would build this item on them, and the only reason to build this item on champions that do not scale with total AD, is the shield.

Silents429Feb 12, 20162 votes

It's 100 HP. This is like what, 1 auto attack mid or late game? You still stack item 3116 and item 3742

It isn't the base item that makes it good, it's the passive on it.

Rule 34Feb 12, 20166 votes

{quoted}

It's 100 HP. This is like what, 1 auto attack mid or late game? You still stack and

It isn't the base item that makes it good, it's the passive on it.

Paying 2700 gold for 400 health and 30 AD is fucking awful. The passive does not make up for how legendarily shit the base item will be if this change goes though.

Silents429Feb 12, 20162 votes

2700 gold is pretty god damn cheap for what it gives you.

And the passive is really strong, essentially making you immune to burst.

This is especially great on marksmen because it increases your damage output and shields you.

Critmaster GarenFeb 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

2700 gold is pretty god damn cheap for what it gives you.

And the passive is really strong, essentially making you immune to burst.

This is especially great on marksmen because it increases your damage output and shields you.

then fuck marksmen and make it a melee only item.

and if its not supposed to be good on melee adc and assassins either, then give the shield passive a health threshold like warmorgs. there are so many better possibilites than nerfing the item.

other champions will go back to banshees and other defensive items, and the champions who are stuck with it because they need it to be effective will be the ones who suffer from the nerf.

Silents429Feb 12, 20161 votes

Juggernauts won't suffer from the nerf. A bunch of health stackers won't even notice -100HP

A squishy champion not stacking HP will however notice.

Critmaster GarenFeb 12, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts won't suffer from the nerf. A bunch of health stackers won't even notice -100HP

A squishy champion not stacking HP will however notice.

its minus 100 here, and minus 100 there, and at some point if becomes noticable.

they already removed 100 health from dead mans, and 100 to 120 health from veteran scars. with the steraks nerf thats already 300 health less overall by lategame, which means 100 health less from the steraks shield itself.

makes a loss of 400 health in a lategame fight.

no, you dont notice it much if it happens on one single item, but theyve not been nerfing these items (and masteries) only once.

KhâmulFeb 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ulJ1XnAy,comment-id=000800000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-02-12T20:28:14.526+0000)

its minus 100 here, and minus 100 there, and at some point if becomes noticable.

they already removed 100 health from dead mans, and 100 to 120 health from veteran scars. with the steraks nerf thats already 300 health less overall by lategame, which means 100 health less from the steraks shield itself.

makes a loss of 400 health in a lategame fight.

no, you dont notice it much if it happens on one single item, but theyve not been nerfing these items (and masteries) only once.

If it's just the sterak,you lose 100hp + 25 passive shield + 30 shield (item activation) =155 hp. well,it's not that big considering that with low cd,you can basically spam your E. you have rarely the situation when you get from a lategame teamfight with 100hp (happens more in midgame).

Critmaster GarenFeb 12, 20162 votes

{quoted}

If it's just the sterak,you lose 100hp + 25 passive shield + 30 shield (item activation) =155 hp. well,it's not that big considering that with low cd,you can basically spam your E. you have rarely the situation when you get from a lategame teamfight with 100hp (happens more in midgame).

but its not just steraks. have you see a jugg who just builds steraks? its adds up.

i forgot 100 hp on cleaver.

LordGeovanniFeb 14, 20161 votes

forgot warmogs armor which used to stand at a glorious 1000 hp and didnt have an stat requirement to use its passive as it is the only item in the game that does. also other items where they reduce armor and Magic Resist causes you to take more damage works near with having less hp.