Thoughts on Doublelift's "ADC is Garbage" quote

BlueBilberry··2 votes·1,307 views

Now I recommend listening to Doublelift's full interview - but this snippet hits the main idea. Doublelift is actually saying what I've been thinking (and I think a number of us have been thinking) for a while (e.g., "ADC in 2017" meme anyone) - the ADC role is pretty near ridiculous at the moment. (BTW, this is coming from a support main on a few different accounts.)

As the game currently stands (and I am deliberately not using "meta" here given that this has been a long term trend), ADCs have been relegated into being a role nearly as boring as the support role. They either: (A) are expected to feed/farm like crazy until they are big enough (about 3-4 items to actually do something); or (B) become 300 gold minions for team ganks. It's not a fluke that NEACE released a video which said that in essence the botlane carry was least able to have an impact/carry a game.

I mean once upon a time, the ADCs were the ones who would be able to chew through towers quickly - remember those days where the games were regularly over in about 30 minutes? And you would have the game end and realize that yes the better team won, and not because of a fluke outcome in a schmozz. Ah those were the good ol' days...

But now we have champs in top lane that can take down towers better than the ranged ADCS. Often they are even doing this before the ADC has their 2nd item. I mean: c'mon!!

When you see ADCs having to grab Doran's Shield in botlane, and Ziggs appearing in the carry role, it should be telling you Mr. and Ms. Rito developers that the bot-carry role is not in a healthy state right now.

Please give the ADC role a bit of loving. They need it right now.

26 Comments

Big Lincoln10 votes

why should melee pushers not take towers faster? they're melee; they don't get to whittle it down from 500-650 range

lul

Ahristocats3 votes

doublelift said adc was garbge in EVERY SINGLE season, i don't know what's new and what's shocking people

he said that release jinx was weak, why the fuck his opinion is still considered?

Big Lincoln2 votes

i'm still assblasted about this post, lol

basically saying that ADCs are trash unless they get to do everything better AND do it from range

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ul68Krk9,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-07-03T01:28:24.017+0000)

i'm still assblasted about this post, lol

basically saying that ADCs are trash unless they get to do everything better AND do it from range

i know right?

that ziggs bot lane thing was blown way out of proportion. the champion was viable alongside marksmen on bot lane due to a gimmick. he didnt even reach the win and playrate that cait and draven have right now. many people got hyped and it spread fast, just because of how unusual the pick was.

for some reason as soon as a single mage became viable in their lane, adc mains started spamming that shitty "adc 2k17" meme, and claimed that "theyre garbage now, you dont even need an adc anymore".

like holy fuck can they NOT share that lane.

Critmaster Garen8 votes

marksmen are currently the strongest role in the game next to supports, due to how bloody hard they are to take down, while scaling faster into midgame than they used to.

but one competitive adc main from a mid/low tier team said that adc are weak despite all the evidence pointing to the opposite, so it has to be true.

i guess its entirely coincidence that even divers in competitive games are building item 3109 to bind to their adc and play like secondary support/armor shred bots with item 3071 item 3193 for their marksman.

BlueBilberry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ul68Krk9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-02T20:34:49.578+0000)

marksmen are currently the strongest role in the game next to supports, due to how bloody hard they are to take down, while scaling faster into midgame than they used to.

but one competitive adc main from a mid/low tier team said that adc are weak despite all the evidence pointing to the opposite, so it has to be true.

Interesting that the ADC main from TSM (allegedly the top team in NA) is being called a mid/low tier team player. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Interesting that the ADC main from TSM (allegedly the top team in NA) is being called a mid/low tier team player. [slayer-jinx-wink]

when has TSM ever been anything more than a mid/low tier team since season 1 or 2?

BlueBilberry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ul68Krk9,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-02T20:39:37.838+0000)

when has TSM ever been anything more than a mid/low tier team since season 1 or 2?

World rank#4 and NA rank#1 apparently have fallen much lower than I thought. :p http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/teams/2800-team-solomid https://www.riftherald.com/na-lcs/2017/1/20/14334144/na-spring-2017-power-rankings-tsm

Wet Dryman2 votes

Given that they are dumpstered everytime they play internationally (but aren't as bad as South American or Russian teams) it's pretty safe to assume that they are mid tier team. NA itself is bad too, no sweat for Koreans or Chinese.

Akali is SO HOT4 votes

Doublelift says ADCs are garbage in every other interview. It really doesn't mean anything.

Miror B4 votes

For me, the bigger problem with ADC's is the fact that the pool of them is rather shallow compared to all the other lanes, or more accurately that people are somehow refusing to play "off-meta" things there. While every other lane has a mix of AP, AD, tanks (galio/nautilus being ones that can go in literally every lane), and melee characters, the actual "botlane carry" role has for some reason been reserved towards ranged AD characters ("ADC's") with things like ziggs/mordy being the only things seen in the lcs that go against that.

Ultimately, if DL really wants the botlane role to look funner/more interesting, he might have to take a page out of a guy he praised (rekkles)'s book and start playing off-meta things. While some of it may not work out at the beginning, it could ultimately make not just the picks/bans more interesting but also expand the role beyond what the current belief of it is.

BlueBilberry1 votes

{quoted}

Ultimately, if DL really wants the botlane role to look funner/more interesting, he might have to take a page out of a guy he praised (rekkles)'s book and start playing off-meta things. While some of it may not work out at the beginning, it could ultimately make not just the picks/bans more interesting but also expand the role beyond what the current belief of it is.

Interesting idea. But I don't think it is a fluke that in the last off-season when the "ADC in 2017" meme was starting to take off, you could see the pro ADC mains (Sneaky, Doublelift, Imaqtpie, etc.) trying out some of the off-meta champs in the botlane role such as Kennen, Quinn and Ziggs.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Interesting idea. But I don't think it is a fluke that in the last off-season when the "ADC in 2017" meme was starting to take off, you could see the pro ADC mains (Sneaky, Doublelift, Imaqtpie, etc.) trying out some of the off-meta champs in the botlane role such as Kennen, Quinn and Ziggs.

bull shit.

people still dont understand what happened back then. it had nothing to do with marksmen or them being weak, and everything with the fact of how bloody op turret first blood was.

you have to understand that getting turret first blood back then almost entirely decided the outcome of a game at high levels of play. to a large part it still does.

Ziggs was played bot lane for one reason and one reason only. his turret wrecking gimmick in his kit. he can 1 shot turrets from 35% health with a rank 5 w.

in a meta where turret first blood snowballs the game regularly to end before 20 minutes, this is probably the strongest ability in the game.

at the same time, when games end as quickly as they did back then (and they DID end between 15 to 20 minutes on a regular basis) with nonstop pressure on bot lane by constant 5 man gangbangs, marksmen never got to scale up to their power spikes.

this and this alone was the reason why people experimented with other picks on bot lane.

BlueBilberry1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ul68Krk9,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-07-02T20:46:32.483+0000)

Ziggs was played bot lane for one reason and one reason only. his turret wrecking gimmick in his kit. he can 1 shot turrets from 35% health with a rank 5 w.

in a meta where turret first blood snowballs the game regularly to end before 20 minutes, this is probably the strongest ability in the game.

Love how you acknowledged one of the problems in your last sentence. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Love how you acknowledged one of the problems in your last sentence. [slayer-jinx-wink]

a) its not a problem.

a single mage being viable on bot lane because of a specific gimmick doesnt automatically mean the entire class of marksmen was garbage. he was merely able to keep up with them and didnt massively outperform them like mordekaiser did in the first weeks after his rework.

b) the situation today is entirely different from what it was back then.

marksmen scale hard into midgame now due to their reworked and buffed itemization, and the reworked support itemization. games dont end before 20 minutes anymore, which means they regularly scale to their power spikes.

Miror B1 votes

The problem is that none of them actually stuck with that idea and instead waited until rito finally "gave in" and released more broken (supposed to be) melee-only items that they could exploit. It says a lot about how little the NA pros care about off-meta botlaners/want botlane to change when the one guy who was into it last split isn't even a full-time starter right now (altec).

khorney1 votes

how is quinn adc considered off meta ? off meta would be brining urgot back to the bot lane, kennen has and always was viable due to scalings and on hit effect, ziggs isnt anything new either hay let me bring a mage bot lane liek what a new idea ......annie morg list goes on

BlueBilberry1 votes

{quoted}

how is quinn adc considered off meta ? off meta would be brining urgot back to the bot lane, kennen has and always was viable due to scalings and on hit effect, ziggs isnt anything new either hay let me bring a mage bot lane liek what a new idea ......annie morg list goes on

Well, Quinn botlane itself is unusual given that she has a strong position as a toplaner. Ditto Kennen. Ziggs is primarily a midlaner. The only one that you missed btw was Mordekaiser. ;)

khorney1 votes

So Morde goes bot to bully the bot Lane that's nothing new. Ziggs is easy to counter. Poke adc like in the Midlane and a dive supp Leo works best. Hell I was doing malz supp right after they first reworked him because I saw what he could do. Was raping bot Lane lost game got reported people were like gg if only we had a real supp. People said I was trolling I explained in detail how I wasn't but what eves. Then lcs does it then all of a sudden I was copying them lol gtfo. Then they nerfed him and made it unfun. I mean people were using the voiding as a engage..... That's not effective use of them. I used them to counter engage or if we were ganked... Don't under estimate the power of the body block.

Penns3 votes

Draven Twitch Caitlyn Jhin Ashe Lucian KogMaw Tristana yeah they really need it rn kappa

Jbels3 votes

{quoted}

As the game currently stands (and I am deliberately not using "meta" here given that this has been a long term trend), ADCs have been relegated into being a role nearly as boring as the support role. They either: (A) are expected to feed/farm like crazy until they are big enough (about 3-4 items to actually do something); or (B) become 300 gold minions for team ganks. It's not a fluke that NEACE released a video which said that in essence the botlane carry was least able to have an impact/carry a game.

This is the nature of being an ADC. Your impact on the game is pretty much reality warping, meaning you have a shit time because you are the focus of the game (the jungler)

I mean once upon a time, the ADCs were the ones who would be able to chew through towers quickly - remember those days where the games were regularly over in about 30 minutes? And you would have the game end and realize that yes the better team won, and not because of a fluke outcome in a schmozz. Ah those were the good ol' days...

But now we have champs in top lane that can take down towers better than the ranged ADCS. Often they are even doing this before the ADC has their 2nd item. I mean: c'mon!!

ADCs DO chew through towers quickly. The bot tower has a huge defensive nerf that top lane's tower does not. Naturally, one dies faster than the other. This was done specifically because the ADC and Support were lane swapping in order to have completely safe farm while denying the enemy top laner a shit load of minions and gold (which is why many times you saw low economy tanks like Maokai and Nautilus in these lane swaps.) Insinuating that tanks, who build ZERO AD (except Gnar) somehow shred towers faster than an ADC does is ridiculous.

When you see ADCs having to grab Doran's Shield in botlane, and Ziggs appearing in the carry role, it should be telling you Mr. and Ms. Rito developers that the bot-carry role is not in a healthy state right now.

Yeah because LCS ADC players have never seen an item get buffed / changed and thought to themselves "hmmmm, I'm going to use this because it will help me win".

Please give the ADC role a bit of loving. They need it right now.

Caitlyn NoDraven . TheyTwitch . Don'tXayah . item 3812 item 3812 item 3812

Alex h87212 votes

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Critmaster Garen2 votes

you want to know other classes that arent what they used to? tanks and fighters. i dont see DrMundo or Malphite tanking entire teams like they used to for literally full minutes either anymore.

adc not being what they were in season 1 doesnt mean shit. no class is the same as back then.

l Helios l1 votes

I mean, every game feels like it's over before 10 minutes. Whoever makes the first mistake loses lane and can't recover unless the other team throws the lead out the window.

khorney1 votes

umm its peoples choice to take roles in certain places on the lane there is nothign stating that you cannot say go top with a adc or mid so on and so forth so what your saying is essentially

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