What Buffs Would We Like to See For Mages Hit By Mana Rework?

Ifneth··4 votes·1,194 views

In his most recent Quick Gameplay Thoughts, Medler has said of the recent mana changes that,

“There are a group of a few mages who... are able to burn a lot of mana repeatedly and do seem to have lost a noticeable amount of power (Anivia, Cass, Taliyah, Malz). Might need to put some power back into them as a result, still assessing.”

What would buffs would you like to see them receive?


Waveclear is part of some mages’ identities and, indeed, essential to their function. Scaling and roaming mages especially need reliable, affordable, and safe waveclear because they must leave their lane to help teammates or farm minions to buy items. Restoring some of these mages’ waveclear advantage over other mages would not be wrong and help them in healthy ways.

However, restoring all their waveclear would not only defeat the purpose of the mana changes but also make these mages unmatched pushers. Where waveclear restoration would not put enough power back, we would need to consider pulling other balance levers. These levers should be chosen with the intention of preserving their respective champions’ playstyle and identity.

Here are my ideas for both waveclear restoration and those other levers. To restore wave-clear, we could simply reduce the mages’ mana costs, especially on abilities used to clear a wave with an ‘all-in’. Anivia’s Flash Frost, Cassiopeia’s Noxious Blast, Taliyah’s Seismic Shove, and Malzahar’s Malefic Visions all count. Since gaining the benefit of these reductions would require the mage to put all their abilities on cooldown, it would leave them vulnerable to their opponent, effectively requiring them to win lane and then waveclear.

With their waveclear restored as much as reasonably possible to restore as much of their strength as possible naturally, these mages could then be tweaked to function with less waveclear. Stronger laning and late-game for the scaling mages would help them reach their powerspikes more often and be stronger once there, even though they might be pushed in more often. A shorter cooldown for Taliyah’s Weaver’s Wall would help her have it ready whenever she does roam. Malzahar’s Voidlings could receive health buffs to let them withstand more basic attacks.

Of course, Anivia and Cassiopeia are sitting above 50% winrates on op.gg, Taliyah can become a prized pick in professional play when her roaming and clear are reliable, and Malzahar was nerfed partly because of his waveclear.

11 Comments

Automated Riven3 votes

Wave clear should be a niche. As in not all mages should have it. Leblanc is a mage and she should not have waveclear because that is not her niche. Anivia should have waveclear (sorta cause that's always been her niche) however orriana and lissandra don't really need to match her at all points in time during the game in order to be viable. Waveclear should be tied behind large mana costs tbh.

That being said I would like to see higher ap ratios on champs who are supposed to be late game champions who are struggling. If we are hitting the uptime on spells with Mana nerfs, the logical compensation buffs is to make them more effective when they land.

Ifneth1 votes

I agree with both your points. Higher AP ratios would reward getting fed and improve late-game performance.

Step Sis Lux2 votes

Tbh i dont understand why they chosen malzahar,i mean like they are champions that uses a lot of more mana than malza like syndra or ziggs

Ifneth1 votes

Malzahar’s whole thing is that he can perma-push the lane and then roam to use his ult. He had too much wave-clear, but now he doesn’t have enough. His mana costs were balanced around how mana was before the rework.

DW Diana1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Step Sis Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uhTa4Imf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-11T02:24:27.728+0000)

Tbh i dont understand why they chosen malzahar,i mean like they are champions that uses a lot of more mana than malza like syndra or ziggs

Malzahar used to get his mana back from Malefic Visions, but since riot nerfed his voidlings, e damage and increased his q cost he just doesn't have the damage early to pass this along. Due to this the mana regen is actually much worse for malz then most champions as his mana costs are based on the idea that he WILL pass Malefic Vision from minion to minion. A lot of malz mains (myself included) have even started going sapphire crystal first item to get an early tear remedy this, but as you can appreciate this does little for his early laning phase which, as mentioned before, was already pretty hard.

Don't get me wrong, that was never his biggest issue, but is just another nail in his coffin. They are likely looking at him for the fact that 3 of his abilities need attention (Passive, Voidlings and ult) AND now they've fucked his mana sustain :P

In any case I wouldn't expect the changes they make to include any ramping up for his actual mana sustain; just an improvement in his ability to ping malefic visions, such as an increase in it's damage, making his voidlings more tank etc. Lots of things could work. We malz mains are just waiting to see which of the myriad of options they choose.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Fix the actual issue at large first. DPS mages and DPS-style mages are too strong early game while outscaling a lot of mages and mid lane has a lot of 'better TFs' (better waveclear, better ult).

Ryze, Azir, and Cassiopeia have too much base damage for how well they scale. Taliyah and Galio have too much waveclear and a 'better TF ult'. Nerfing these champions or fixing their primary issue (for Taliyah and Galio, they're way too good in pro compared to solo queue).

Finally, nerf Adaptive Helm down to 12% and give it 100 more health. Riot, you can't just say the DPS mage problem is solved by powercreeping Adaptive Helm to a massive 20% when they still dominate mid because them being OP just pushes everyone else out in the laning phase.

Once we fix the issue at large, we'll be at a clean state to where we can see if we need to buff mages due to mana changes.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Like to see some item and mastery diversity brought back for starters. Others have already mentioned how much the rune removal boosted physical champions more than magical ones, so I'll just mention the disparity in versatility of the mastery changes. Have some meaningful choice between items, such as having more mana regeneration and cdr for spamming but lacking ability power, or high AP items with slight utility; giving mages the choice to throw several weak spells, the occasional hard hitting one, or something inbetween depending on the player's style. Buffing the banshie's veil or reducing cdr across the board, and adding the moonflair spellblade for another decent defensive option.

Ifneth1 votes

The question in my original post was: how can and should we help the four mages Meddler mentioned? Your reply is a list of midlane changes you want.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Hadn't noticed you wanted to address those four, so I went with a general concept. Anivia, I'd say increase the speed of her passive revive, like what they did to zac, and slightly increase the leash range on her ultimate since they made it a wind-up. Cassiopeia . . . I'd suggest enemies that are perpendicular to her line of sight get stunned for half the duration, as they'd have her in their peripheral vision; she needs a rework away from spamming one spell to be a dps mage. Taliyah to be honest I'm not too familiar with, played her a few times, and only seen her for a few games; her rock throw/worked ground mechanic seems like a neat micromanagement mechanic, but too easy to suffer from in a teamfight, more fitting of a limitation on a resourceless champion. I think she should keep the directional casting while moving, but should function similar to xerath's arc, but the longer she charges the more rocks she throws. Malzahar, I liked how they cleaned up his visuals for defined hitboxes, but should've been reverted; gimping his minions after remaking his kit to focus on them, ontop of giving him a better banshee's viel. Revert him but keep the updated visuals.

5050BS1 votes

Doran's Ring give minion execute at 10% hps (on damage not just AA's) so there is less reason to stack three of them.

Ifneth1 votes

I believe it just gives bonus on-hit damage against minions.

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