Pantheon fix till his inevitable rework

Sujiren··34 votes·1,635 views

Nerf Q base damage, up the ad ratio so he isin't as opressive early. Make W, do physical damage, and give it a small ad ratio, or % health damage, maybe even make it scale off pantheon's maximum health, so he is rewarded for building tankier, seeing how its his defensive ability. This change will make pantheon not absolutely disgusting early game, and improve on his terrible , terrible lategame, just some quality of life changes that he could use till he is reworked .

29 Comments

The Whamboozler8 votes

At least this wasn't just some "OMFG NERF IT!" post. It still won't work though. Pantheon will ALWAYS fall off later with his kit... by depriving him of the one thing he does well you will leave him with nothing. Pantheon is currently strong for a LOT of reasons and you can't just slap a simple fix on him to make him balanced.

The game has been far more snowbally for a while now, and matches tend to end much, much earlier these days. This was the first thing to give Pantheon a push into a good winrate. He is an early game champ, after all.

After the grossness of the tank meta left, top lane became a lot more.... squishy. This puts Panth against a lot of people he is very strong against because he is a top-tier 1v1 dueler and early game monster.

Lethality was a double-boon for Panth. Now that it's buffed back into OP status it is helping him twice over. Not only are lethality items REALLY good on him, but everyone is spamming squishy AD champs and building lethality on them. Meaning his lane opponents are usually fellow AD champs with no early defensive items. Is it any wonder that he's stomping them?

Pantheon does exactly ONE thing in this game. Win lane 1v1. He doesn't snowball off it really... he falls off pretty hard. He just dominates early lane. By crippling his damage you would leave him utterly useless for the entire game, because barring a rework his kit just isn't worth anything much outside of those early 1v1's. What's more, you'd be nerfing him because of the items and the meta making him strong. When those things inevitably change he will be even MORE garbage if he's been nerfed previously.

I understand he's a bit oppressive now, but we need MORE champs like Pantheon, not LESS. He's a specialist with a very defined set of strengths and weaknesses. Now every freakin' champ needs to be some high skillcap nonsense full of dashes, % damage and complicated, overloaded kits. Are you against Pantheon? Ok cool, life will suck for you for a while. Play safe and outscale the mofo. Did you pick a squishy lethality abuser and he counter-picked you? Well, that's kinda your own fault then, eh? If you're gonna go something like that top and you don't ban him you're asking for it. There are five bans now.... if you can't handle laning against someone but you REFUSE to pick champs that can handle them better AND you don't ban them... I'd say your death is your own fault. Like some 0/4 Riven who KEEPS trying to all-in the fed guy that's beaten her 1v1 repeatedly... you aren't correcting your mistakes or altering your strategies at all... of COURSE you're going to keep failing.

korg0236 votes

This seems like good change, just shift his power from early to mid-late and smooth his damage out instead of making him cancer early in laning and useless later.

nice table5 votes

pantheon will never be not horrible late game unless they buff the range on his w

Skorch5 votes

"AD Ratio up" *laughs in item 3147 *

HateDaddy4 votes

Giving his W an AD ratio would be a huge mistake

Phyuq Yiu3 votes

Til then if you do find yourself against him try fearless mastery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L7B5zzZwZQ

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

This thing isn't popular in NA already ?

Skorch1 votes

Nope, and IDK why man Perfect for champs like Pantheon Fiora Jax

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

since few patches many fr streamers promote it, even on adc.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

Make W and give it a small ad ratio, or % health damag

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Skorch3 votes

Probably because it isnt a spammable ability (like the most annoying of % HP damage, %HP in itself isnt that bad) and helps with his late game. Not what i would do but hey, i can see the reasoning

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

then Panth would be played tankier.

Skorch2 votes

OP wants that.

Abibyama1 votes

I would like them to give him the Ryze treatment, turn his Q into a skillshot

Just don't turn him into a monster that has to be reworked 5 (?) times

Sujiren3 votes

{quoted}

I would like them to give him the Ryze treatment, turn his Q into a skillshot

Just don't turn him into a monster that has to be reworked 5 (?) times

Thats not a bad idea, but probably for when they fully rework him give him new visuals and all that.

Automated Riven1 votes

i am ok with turning his q into a skillshot. suddenly riven counters him.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uXQjTllx,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-07-24T18:17:42.237+0000)

i am ok with turning his q into a skillshot. suddenly riven counters him.

There would be huge consequences, as in Pantheon would be waaaaay less of a lanebully since he basically can't poke you as long as you hide behind minions.

He would still have high DPS, but in all honestly his dps, while good, isn't amazing. It more relies on throwing a Q before engaging, and then getting an extra Q off as you dissengage.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Nerf Q base damage, up the ad ratio so he isin't as opressive early.

He needs nerfs, not adjusts. He still buys 1 Dirk and he wins.

Sujiren1 votes

{quoted}

He needs nerfs, not adjusts. He still buys 1 Dirk and he wins.

Well never mind buffing the q ad ratio, but changing w to do some % health damage would be nice. Current pantheon once latergame stages hit, has no reliable way to get to the backline. His yolo ulti isin't reliable considering how delayed it is and the fact that he can be insta focused. And he tickles tanks, even with full pen build he has nothing to deal with high health bars, so buffing his w and nerfing his q, would be a step to make his laning less opressive and late not as useless.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Well never mind buffing the q ad ratio, but changing w to do some % health damage would be nice. Current pantheon once latergame stages hit, has no reliable way to get to the backline. His yolo ulti isin't reliable considering how delayed it is and the fact that he can be insta focused. And he tickles tanks, even with full pen build he has nothing to deal with high health bars, so buffing his w and nerfing his q, would be a step to make his laning less opressive and late not as useless.

Against high healthbars, he has CDR and a low cooldown Q. Of course, can't exactly expect to succeed if you build Lethality against tanks. His Cleaver Rav build is great against them tho.

Shadow Gilgamesh1 votes

I'd just shuffle his mana costs around a bit. As it stands his Q is 45 at all ranks, while his E scales from 45 to 65, I would swap that around, if you're gonna max Q and just poke until you get them at kill % to go in, you should at least risk running out of mana, whereas if you maxed E to go in for the combo, which opens yourself up to trades or ganks, you would get more bang for your buck. This would keep his identity as a strong lane bully and early roam risk, but poor lategame champ, but it would make his gameplay pattern less obnoxious than "oh, I ate 2 to 5 Qs, and he has full health and 80 to 50% mana still, now I have to back and he can do it again when I return to lane"

Handin Out Naps1 votes

Just make his q give minion agro tbh. Idk if it is possible but it would make a big difference.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Tbh, i think they should overall nerf the spears damage, especially early, but give it a small flat armor shred(like 4-20), so it's still relevant for your combo or maybe let it aply a damage debuff so it gives some utillity. Then revert the E damage nerfs, maybe even buff it's scaleing, but increase the channle duration to 1.32 sec and split the damage to 5 instances in 0.33sec intervalls so it has counterplay by walking out of it, maybe even make the damage go up with each tick to backload the damage by some, and lower the cd but let it start after it gets finished or interrupted. That way he has more teamfight utillity by applying BC more easily and higher aoe damage potential from his E, but also more counterplay especially in the early lane. Maybe also Change his W manacosts from 55 to 110/95/80/65/50, so useing it for an easy E channle in lane only is worth on an all-in atempt as it else would drain your mana fast.

That all probablyy could quallify as small rework, but it could be done without any aditional work for artists(well, maybe a vfx for Q-debuff), so rather low need of resources.

Yuri By Mail1 votes

So, to nerf a lane bully, you take away their ability to do their job before the first buy.

I'd check your op.gg but I can probably already assume you recently lost lane to one, as intended.

I Main Swain1 votes

i thought he was supposed to be an early-mid power champion with a weak late game though? i know thats what his identity was when i played him (or at least thats what id thought it was haha)

FilDaFunk1 votes

But the whole point of him is to be strong early, then fall off later.

SociopathFriend1 votes

Make W, do physical damage, and give it a small ad ratio

Because THAT is Panth's problem, not enough AD scaling.

I Ban Freelo 1 votes

Gut him until he's reworked. "He's only good in the meta." 52%+ WR since my birth. Brain dead champs are kept shit for a reason.

Doctor Dyment1 votes

Pantheon needs a fix. He's from really weird that era of champions from the early days, who is clearly meant to be built a specific way but has ratios of the other way for no real reason. He's very much an old champion who would benefit from a rework. And just LOOKIT THOSE FEET, ECH

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