Who else hates Infinity edge?

JoeAnarchy·Sep 26, 2018·68 votes·18,471 views

Ok this is only my opinion, you don't have to agree, and feel free to discus, but lets keep it civil. (who am i kidding these are the League forums XD)

i'm an ADC main, and even I hate Infinity edge.. even post rework it was this mandatory item.. and now after 8.11 you honestly don't feel like you matter until you have it.. it's this massive power spike, but is also so dependent on other items.. its in an odd spot.. before the rework it was just too powerful to not have... honestly i personally think it should be removed.. it would make balancing AD Marksmen way more easy.. plus it would open an item slot for more diverse builds.. P.S. stormrazor is broken also, but this isn't a post about that haha.

What do you all think? how do you feel about I.E.? how would you change it? or would you remove it? or do you think it's fine?

110 Comments

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20187 votes

I gave it a lot of shit when it was first announced, but I feel like it needs it's 20% true damage back.

10% is barely anything.

saltranSep 26, 201834 votes

With 20% true dmg crit build would be absolutely bonkers.

IE doesnt need any buff.

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

With 20% true dmg crit build would be absolutely bonkers.

IE doesnt need any buff.

Then at least reduce it's cost to 3000 gold.

LTK KoRoSep 26, 20189 votes

Yeah, let's make adcs spike at 15 minute again what about no

saltranSep 26, 201815 votes

Is very frustrating to be an adc main that doesn't want more buffs for adcs on the Boards.

Like, guys please check my opgg, 2 of my 3 most played champs this season on ranked are Caitlyn and Tristana, probably the 2 most pure crit adcs in the game and yet I'm just screaming to NOT buff crit items right now.

Fuck off, do adcs have the lowest agency on soloQ games? YES, is that a bad thing? NO, because when you choose to main adc you are choosing to play the most fucking team reliant role in the game and you should know that, it has been like this since forever with it's up and downs but it has always been like this, because even when adcs are strong it's the supp or the jng who decides which adc gets feed and which one gets deleted every fight.

If you want to solo carry go fucking play other role jesus christ.

(I'm not angry towards you dear AFS fan, it's more for the envyroment)

Spank the FoxSep 26, 20184 votes

At least admit to mid season rework was a complete failure.

Rather than abusing the burst from IE+Shiv, ADCs are generally abusing the burst from Stormrazor and RPC. Explain how that’s better.

saltranSep 26, 20188 votes

I'll explain:

With the old crit itemization there were 2 types of crit builds:

A) item 1038 into item 3087 then finish item 3031 and a second item 3086 item, usually item 3094

B) Rush item 3508 into item 3087 then item 3031 and only maybe another item 3086 item

Crit adcs were able to build the most scaling build in the whole game to mid and lategame without being smashed on early game. It was not healthy, and it needed something more than just flat nerfs, that build needed a change.

So, they made a lot of nerfs not only to the items, but aswell on adcs base stats and to FleetF so rushing that build now was terrible for early game and not even stronger on lategame compared to the old itineration of that same build.

Of course, crit adcs would be pretty trollpick if they just shipped the changes like that so they added a item that is strong on early game but gets obsolete later.

Think about item 3095 like a big item 1055 : If you could survive early game just buying items that can be upgradded later everyone would do it right? Every adc would start with either a item 1042 or item 1036 , every mage would start with item 1052 , etc.

You buy a Doran to be stronger early at the cost of scaling worse because you "waste gold" on a item that you will sell.

Same goes for StormR, if crit adcs want to get the dream of item 3031 and 2 item 3086 items they have to pay a price, that is being fucking useless for the first 20 minutes. And since that's not worth they are forced to buy a item that first catapults them into a power spike by the cost of dragging them later.

I dont think that this system is perfect, and I really hate what they've done to my precious item 3508 .

But I'm able to see the logic behind the crit changes and I like majority of the changes because adcs are on a more balanced spot right now than pre 8.11, while also being stronger than how they were just on 8.11 and 8.12 when majority of the adcs were freaking terrible.

saltranSep 26, 20182 votes

I should probably make a full thread on Gameplay + if it still exists about crit items and adc balance, and I also want to do one about why Zhonyas is better now than when it had 120AP.

Spank the FoxSep 26, 20183 votes

I mean, I mained ADCs on and off since S3, but they’re objectively in the worst state right now as a class.

There are severe abuse cases, but they aren’t crit related. My only argument is the philosphy behind StormR and RPC interacting is about the same as IE and Shiv interaction.

I just want my DPS class back, that gets progressively stronger with game time. Right now, StormR is the only link that helps crit ADCs reach late game but it scales ineffectively. The strongest ADCs are caster orientated.

The ER debacle is another story but I can’t even touch Xayah nor Sivir these days because of 8.11

saltranSep 26, 20183 votes

Sivir and Xayah are good right now with StormRazor, and I'm even playing Xayah more now than with the old crit items. Yet I still miss ER, I have hopes for next preseason about that theme since a rioter said on Reddit that they would at it because they have the data and they see that new ER is a meme item.

I do think that overall adcs are now in the most balanced state they have been in years, not as strong as pre 8.11 and neither weak to the point that mages can replace them on botlane

LordGeovanniSep 26, 20181 votes

because when you choose to main adc you are choosing to play the most fucking team reliant role in the game

At least this is how it should be until you can do 16% (Its slightly less 8% twice off of the same attack)of champions current hp an 1 auto attack and you auto attack at an average over 2 attack per second or you can one crit 1/3 of a full tanks hp while shooting still over 2 autos pers second.

saltranSep 27, 20182 votes

Yeah yeah all that words are really cool but it doesn't change that for soloQ adcs are the role that has their carry potential more gated by his teammates than any other role.

For me that's an observation, not a complain.

LordGeovanniOct 13, 20181 votes

and in the game as a whole adcs existence negates the carry potential of 2 and just a while ago 3 roles. Id say any split pusher is more team reliant than any adc because split pushers need the team to engage when they reach withing 30% range of any tower otherwise they are only passively farming when their team backs off with no pressure applied they either get 5 man ganked which they will get blamed for or the wave will get cleared and the entire push wasted. while adcs only need to right click with anyone in front of them.

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVhz3bxt,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-26T10:04:31.570+0000)

Yeah, let's make adcs spike at 15 minute again what about no

How are they going to be able to spike at 15 minutes when the true damage doesn't come online unless another crit item has been built beforehand?

HügöSep 26, 20181 votes

You fucking rush ie?

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You fucking rush ie?

That wasn't what I was implying at all?

Lil Homie bustaSep 26, 20181 votes

Yes.....

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVhz3bxt,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-26T20:02:42.836+0000)

Yes.....

Yes as in it was or yes as in it wasn't?

kargishSep 26, 20182 votes

Or you know... the other way around item 3094 --> item 3031

BLIGHTBRINGERSep 26, 20182 votes

I prefer to keep any remaining true damage to a minimum. I would rather see it get buffed or changed elsewhere.

If they were to bring back that 20% then they would need to do something about things like Conqueror users.

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVhz3bxt,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-09-26T10:59:15.195+0000)

I prefer to keep any remaining true damage to a minimum. I would rather see it get buffed or changed elsewhere.

If they were to bring back that 20% then they would need to do something about things like Conqueror users.

Well I suggested reducing it's cost to 3000 gold but it seems like that isn't an option either, judging by the negative response.

The only other thing I can come up with is increasing the AD on the item to 75 from 70.

saltranSep 26, 20182 votes

Why do you hate adcs so much that you want adc items buffs?

[sg-janna]

Warlord RhinarkSep 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why do you hate adcs so much that you want adc items buffs?

[sg-janna]

I'm not sure I quite understand, Saltran-sama.

saltranSep 26, 20182 votes

Summarize: adcs overall are fine, if some needs nerfs or some needs buffs make the tweaks targeted and not aoe messing with crit items.

Need Gold 4 TentSep 26, 20187 votes

I'm a Yi player, and at times I like playing crit build. The entire purpose of crit and ie may have been to dps tanks lategame, but tanks were still too durable instead it ended up being used as a squishy annihilator, and excelled at that even more than its main purpose of dps. Now crit (unless your kit has largely crit-based like Yasuo/Tryndamere) is still inferior to on-hit for sustained damage while also having its burst capabilities nerfed.

Then again, tanks are so weak with all the damage now, it probably doesn't even matter anyway because crit/on-hit/lethality, everything kills everything.

Handy Sandy Sep 26, 20181 votes

crit was never meant to deal with tanks, thats what item 3153 item 3124 item 3036 item 3033 item 3091 is meant for, in a perfect world at least.

AxzariousSep 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVhz3bxt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-26T07:19:49.684+0000)

I'm a Yi player, and at times I like playing crit build. The entire purpose of crit and ie may have been to dps tanks lategame, but tanks were still too durable instead it ended up being used as a squishy annihilator, and excelled at that even more than its main purpose of dps. Now crit (unless your kit has largely crit-based like Yasuo/Tryndamere) is still inferior to on-hit for sustained damage while also having its burst capabilities nerfed.

Then again, tanks are so weak with all the damage now, it probably doesn't even matter anyway because crit/on-hit/lethality, everything kills everything.

What really killed Crit Yi was the change to Essence Reaver if you ask me. Then again, I ran Crit Yi mid instead of jungle.

Need Gold 4 TentSep 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

What really killed Crit Yi was the change to Essence Reaver if you ask me. Then again, I ran Crit Yi mid instead of jungle.

It was really a number of things that killed crit Yi. As mentioned, crit Yi's job was to nuke a squishy (apply AoE damage), nuke another squishy (more AoE applied), then clean out the low hp enemy team. That was an ideal situation anyway. If you don't 1 shot a target, you won't have a reset and you can't quickly Q to drop aggro so you just die.

This was possible because IE's 50% crit damage pretty much just meant 50% more damage once you hit 100% crit. Now you do 0% bonus damage with 10% true damage that's not much against tanks anyway and useless against squishies. 1 shots no longer possible.

On top of that, the zeal > IE power spike is gone, besides IE being cancer to build. BF, Pickaxe and cloak each gave a decent power spike on their own. Sitting on a BF/pickaxe doesn't. On top of that, you'd be better off finishing a zeal item first because IE doesn't give the same power spike it used to, and when sitting on a Zeal/BF, you're still getting 30% crit which ever you finish. At least the zeal item is cheaper to finish. When you did Zeal into IE back then, you'd end up with a workable 40% crit on top of that 50% damage spike.

Lastly, on-hit's near burst capability made crit Yi obsolete. Stacked conq/rageblade Yi does nearly as much burst as crit Yi while having the ability to build defense items and having much higher sustained damage overall. It was nothing to do with ER, if anything I feel new ER's even better on both Yis now.

ÈpicwyvernSep 28, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVhz3bxt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-26T07:19:49.684+0000)

I'm a Yi player, and at times I like playing crit build. The entire purpose of crit and ie may have been to dps tanks lategame, but tanks were still too durable instead it ended up being used as a squishy annihilator, and excelled at that even more than its main purpose of dps. Now crit (unless your kit has largely crit-based like Yasuo/Tryndamere) is still inferior to on-hit for sustained damage while also having its burst capabilities nerfed.

Then again, tanks are so weak with all the damage now, it probably doesn't even matter anyway because crit/on-hit/lethality, everything kills everything.

as a yi main you are exactly right on. I hate this IE rework. old ie just needed a few nerfs to the same item thats all, even thats a bit too much considering how they gutted everything else related to crit and essence reaver rework

Binding EclipseSep 26, 20184 votes

Honestly I don't even bother to build it most of the time, just cause I don't like it.

Glory97Sep 26, 20183 votes

I hate the whole crit itemisation. Ever since riot decided that 100% percent crit is needed they changed the powercurve of adcs from "decent-early, good-late" to "unimaginable useless early, 1v9 late".

This creates a polarizing meta. Ever since 5.22 the only thing that determines the meta is "are adcs able to get their items quickly?"

If yes, botlane is the only thing that matters ingame, the whole game revolving arround two people of which 1 is autofilled, If no, adcs are so unplayable that they go ingame just to be oneshot over and over again with close no ability to impact the game at all.

I'd rather have a lategame teamfight that is decided by RNG luck of the adc who is luckier to get one cirt more with 35% chance, than any of the disasterous metas that patch 5.22 has initiated...

OtterlyLostSep 26, 20183 votes

I don't mind crit itemization; its always been there. The core ADC build for seasons now has been crit, which means IE. And I don't really get why people are upset that the lane with two people in it, yes two people, like 40% of your team, is the most important lane. I don't know what you expected when its a 5v5 map with two people in the same one. And they still have less agency combined(because the ADC has actually 0; if you've played ADC in reason seasons you'd know that they have ABSOLUTELY 0 agency in the early game) that the dude who is just running around abusing forest animals and can use the power of a god to destroy them.

That being said, I do wish that they'd rework crit itemization so that it had some variance from game to game. They over buffed Shiv; there's nothing to it. They just flatly over buffed it last season to bandaid fix the ADC2k17lul problem(and yes, it was a problem) and then left it in an over buffed state. They could have toned back ADC power in 8.11 by just taking the damn bandaid off and actually putting work into the ADC items; instead they neutered IE(I vastly prefer old IE), they introduced Stormrazor(another bandaid fix that is also a problem), shaved off a bunch of base stats from marksmen(losting armor, AD, and health regen early game is a big deal; in the early game is when base stats matter the absolute most because that's all most people are running around with), and then had rush and back pedal because they'd alienated the players and destroyed their class.

And now we're here. The ADCs still have no agency. Their builds still suck. Their items are still terrible unless their names are Shiv and StormRazor. And Riot refuses to do anything to fix the issue.

FemalesAreLesserSep 26, 20182 votes

I play Kalista, Tf is a IE? Kalista

HammermancerSep 26, 20182 votes

I hate it, I also hate the new essence reaver, I had a lot of fun with the old one and PD for ad casters

saltranSep 26, 20181 votes

Is there anyone except the Renekton OTP's that like how ER is right now?

I hope that for preseason they change it, because it's a fucking meme item right now

HammermancerSep 26, 20181 votes

Riven.. maybe?

OneBarrelSep 26, 20181 votes

Riven, Jax, Lucian, etc. Anyone who autos or needs to rotate spells.

HammermancerSep 26, 20181 votes

Jax yes, riven maybe... lucian? Is it good on lucian? his ult is channeled

Taric tho, that boi

saltranSep 26, 20181 votes

Yeah that's the theory but ER has less than 3% buyrate on Riven since it doesn't even shows here https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/

Jax that is one of the biggest ER users has 11% https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Jax/

And Lucian that is the champ that uses it the most has 20% https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Lucian/

Literally 0 champs have this ER as a core item.

OneBarrelSep 26, 20181 votes

It's a situational and unique item. What's the point of making an item that is built on everyone and is universal?

saltranSep 27, 20181 votes

If you rework a item that was core on like 4 adcs into a item that Rito says is intended for casters adcs but is literally only bought sometimes by 1 ADC and niche on some bruisers I think that you've messed up the item a bit.

AxzariousSep 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah that's the theory but ER has less than 3% buyrate on Riven since it doesn't even shows here https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/

Jax that is one of the biggest ER users has 11% https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Jax/

And Lucian that is the champ that uses it the most has 20% https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Lucian/

Literally 0 champs have this ER as a core item.

Bring back the old Reaver!

2Charmnot2CharmSep 26, 20182 votes

P.S. stormrazor is broken also

Stormrazor? Never heard of that item- Said every Ashe main.

On a serious note unless the enemy team has multiple tanks building armor I don't get IE till after having these items item 3085 item 3153 item 3046 first as Ashe.

RaiyzaSep 26, 20182 votes

Stormrazor is a bigger problem, honestly.

ZtokaSep 26, 20182 votes

Seeing all those ADC build IE first makes me laugh and cry a little bit at the same time. Happens far more than I ever imagined it would..

Yordle XayahSep 27, 20182 votes

I'll take IE ANY DAY over Buyme100%ofyourgamesoryou'reworlthessfor25mins shit thing over here item 3095

KrytoricSep 27, 20182 votes

IE sucks. I wish it got reverted same with ER. ADC's got their main damage item gutted, then their mana sustain item removed, prices raised, so now its still garbage to build all of their items.

I've been an ADC main for almost 3 years now, and i legit have an easier time winning on everything thats not ADC.

AMADEUSdotEXESep 27, 20181 votes

Ahri Lux Ezreal :

"Why would riot fix item 3031 when Yasuo is bringing them money and popular?"

Lovelle IISep 28, 20181 votes

After item 3095 my damage tends to spike pretty hard. I like that there are alternatives to IE now.

AtmosphereSep 28, 20181 votes

My idea has always been to revert IE, but have it scale like old ER. You start at 110% crit damage, which won't really hurt too much early. As you get more crit, it scales based on crit chance, eventually getting to 150% at either 80 or 100% crit. This change would make the item less bursty early, which was its original problem, while bringing back its hefty late game damage when the ADC reaches full build.