If marksmen are still completely viable?

JoeAnarchy·Jun 24, 2018·10 votes·2,924 views

if you think marksmen are still completely viable, then where are you, the people saying they are still viable, playing them? because bot lane is now full of bruisers and tanks and fighters and shit, with marksmen having very little representation in the bot lane in higher elo, where are YOU playing marksmen? im looking for pointers from you, obviously higher elo players, on where to play my favorite class in the game. i'm a low elo player who CLERLY doesn't understand how his main role is played, so I could really use some pointers on where to play them.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

57 Comments

RallerenPJun 24, 201812 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend

Lucian - Most played ADC 15% Play rate

Ezreal - Second most played ADC, 11% Play rate

Kai'Sa - Third most played ADC, 9% Play Rate

Jhin - Fourth most played ADC, 7% Play Rate

Miss Fortune - Sixth most play ADC, 5% Plaay Rate

Vayne - Seventh most played ADC, 5% Play Rate

Draven - Eight most played ADC, 5% Play Rate

THEN comes Yasuo, the ninth most played ADC with a 3% play rate.

All in all, regular marksmen have a 57% play rate in bottom lane.

But of course, you don't LIKE having a varied meta where marksmen aren't absolutely the only thing you can play in bottom lane, so here you are.

IcyPepperJun 24, 20181 votes

Are you sure it's 57%? I used your link and calculated a 73.26% marksman play rate.

RallerenPJun 24, 20182 votes

I may have missed some :)

Admittedly I only put as much effort into my comment as OP did his post.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 24, 20182 votes

Playrate=! Viable.

People are still on marksmen because they're used to them.

Also, the playrate for marksmen botlane has dropped about 10% in a week. And it just keeps going down. Why is this? Because their relative winrates are dropping.

RallerenPJun 25, 20181 votes

Also, the playrate for marksmen botlane has dropped about 10% in a week. And it just keeps going down. Why is this? Because their relative winrates are dropping.

Why? Because Marksmen are no longer the only thing you can play in bot lane.

SaibboJun 24, 20181 votes

I believe this are only from ranked game, even if it wasn't only 4 of them have a decent win rate outta all ADCs

RallerenPJun 25, 20181 votes

even if it wasn't only 4 of them have a decent win rate outta all ADCs

Lucian - 51% winrate

Ezreal - 48% winrate

Kai'Sa - 49% winrate

Jhin - 51% winrate

Miss Fortune - 53% winrate

Vayne - 50% winrate

Draven - 51% winrate

And that's only the ADC's I originally mentioned. The rest also has pretty decent winrates. Obviously not all of them has a good winrate, but overall it's pretty fine.

OtterlyLostJun 24, 20184 votes

According to them you can play them top, mid, and jungle. And then they go on to only list the marksmen that are currently viable bot without ever even mentioning the crit marksmen.

I have been going out and playing tristana jungle. It's fun and you generally have okay clears if you kite well. Dont build crit though; you have to build on hit. And mute all because your team will flame you. :') because it's not important to have fun in norms.

SaibboJun 24, 20183 votes

I have been going out and playing tristana jungle. It's fun

yeah i hope you having fun because looking at your match history it doesn't look too good or fun...

OtterlyLostJun 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

yeah i hope you having fun because looking at your match history it doesn't look too good or fun...

I never said it was good. I said I was enjoying it but that is largely because I want to play my favorite champion and it's easier and more enjoyable to play her on hit in the jungle tha crit in her actual lane.

Fízz v2Jun 24, 20184 votes

Even in 8.12 pro play Lucian is by far the most picked/banned bot laner, Ezreal and Kai sa are the second and third most picked champs there, Xayah and Vlad share fourth most picked. Irelia was picked once bot and Yasuo 3 times. Seems pretty viable to me tbh

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

if you think marksmen are still completely viable, then where are you, the people saying they are still viable, playing them?

https://i.gyazo.com/6b6ed09fb329c08296dd09e0f536126b.png

here

Kurt HyzanJun 24, 20182 votes

Why are you getting downvoted -_-

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20182 votes

because i'm an adc main that dares to think that adcs are viable my secret is fanboying over Uzi and Deft and learning from them

InTheoryJun 25, 20181 votes

May I ask what your primary account is or is your boards profile just outdated?

AmorithJun 24, 20183 votes

What they mean by "marksman are viable" are Lucian Kaisa Ezreal Draven MissFortune Xayah because they don't have to build crit. Anything else is lack luster, and you're basically begging to lose.

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20181 votes

KogMaw Vayne Varus build crit xd guinsoo+bork and can 2v5 with lulu

can't wait for guinsoo's nerf

AmorithJun 24, 20185 votes

Oh yeah, forgot the guinsoo abusers. My fault.

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20184 votes

so half of the roster is doing fine

hmm, class must be weak now

AmorithJun 24, 20182 votes

You have to understand that the bruiser class is designed to shit on Marksman, which is why everyone in higher elo isn't playing them. You try playing Varus/Kogmaw against an Irelia or Darius botlane while they have a Leona support. It's fucking misery.

Troll for TrumpJun 24, 20183 votes

The bruiser class doesn't shit on marksman. Divers shit on marksman Skirmishers are ok vs marksman Juggernauts (like Darius) are absolutely terrible vs marksmen.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 24, 20184 votes

Only the Guinsoo's abusers are doing fine, as well as Draven (who's an insane lane bully), MF (another insane lane bully), Ezreal (who's abusing something rn), Xayah, who's the best ADC into fighters, or Lucian, who's abusing on-hit items.

So... 3 on-hit abusers, two lane bullies, and the only ADC who's ever actually been good against fighters.

Also, lmao, if you actually build crit on any of those 9 champions (except Xayah, maybe), you're trolling. There's just no way around that. Crit is useless as fuck for them. It was made more expensive than Rageblade builds (while Rageblade users tended to have the best scaling of all ADCs, because it was a shittier build path and took longer to come online than Crit), and wasn't actually made better than it.

Also, Guinsoo's+BorK and 2v5ing with Lulu just isn't a thing anymore, unless the entire enemy team is basically AFK. it was never a thing except with Kog'maw, and lmao gl trying to even make it to 15 minutes with Kog on your team in a meta where tanks have basically vanished.

Aaaaand Kai'sa and Ezreal were already top-tier beforehand, and they only dropped to about a 51% winrate (last I've heard, at least). They dropped 3-4% and didn't have a single item of theirs nerfed. While Kai'sa did lose some power in direct nerfs, Ezreal I don't believe was nerfed at all. Lucian only came back into viability because of ER and BorK buffs. Xayah may have shifted away from crit entirely now that ER doesn't use crit. MF was going to do well on the sole fact that Fleet Footwork was nerfed, and it's no surprise Draven came out ahead, because Bloodthirster was nerfed, and because most other marksmen were left in the dust.

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20184 votes

nobody cares about if crit is useless or not we're talking about wether adcs are viable or not, more than half of the class is viable right now, this thread did not talk about crit because else i would have agreed that crit is shit but adcs except caitlyn and some other adcs do not need crit to work, they can build either bork or lethality

Only the Guinsoo's abusers are doing fine, as well as Draven (who's an insane lane bully), MF (another insane lane bully), Ezreal (who's abusing something rn), Xayah, who's the best ADC into fighters, or Lucian, who's abusing on-hit items.

you say only, but that covers more than half of the class you also forgot that jhin is extremely strong

https://youtu.be/gAYjgBAe1_Q?t=482 3/5 jhin oneshoting people around, sounds fair

and Ashe is a lane bully as well, way more than miss fortune because you can decide to not stand behind minions against miss fortune but you can't do anything against ashe W because if it kills the minions you're behind it will pierce and hit you she has 50.5% win rate and 2.5% pick rate right now while being picked in pro

DuskDaUmbreonJun 24, 20183 votes

and Ashe is a lane bully as well, way more than miss fortune because you can decide to not stand behind minions against miss fortune

Okay this has to be a joke. Ashe. A lane bully. In what universe is Ashe a lane bully? You can't be a lane bully if you're the lowest damage champion of your entire class. That just doesn't make sense.

Also, sure, if it kills them it will pierce. So just stand behind healthy minions. You have far more opportunities to stand behind healthy minions than behind no minions at all.

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Okay this has to be a joke. Ashe. A lane bully. In what universe is Ashe a lane bully?

any ashe main would know that she's a lane bully ashe can't lose lane against any adc except if she gets engaged on

she has 600 range which outranges anyone not named caitlyn, and unlike caitlyn she has 61 base ad which is high her W deals so much damage in early lvls and cost 50 mana while being unavoidable if it kills minions (because i repeat it pierces minions that die)

https://youtu.be/1WuJRglg1VY?t=1408

here have a look at ashe's poke in early game, and then he ended up 45 cs while yasuo had 25

Troll for TrumpJun 24, 20182 votes

But saying ADCs are unviable is just a flatout lie. Crit can get compensation buffs but ADCs aren't literally deleted from the game.

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 24, 20181 votes

Varus not sure how this really applies to any of the 3 you mentioned Varus specifically. Considering his winrate is currently 45.61%, the second lowest among the marksman.

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20182 votes

idk, why would the best adc in the world still pick him then

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 24, 20181 votes

Dispite him being really bad right now, he is still pretty good against tanks, that is assuming he survives the laning phase because without any peel he will become useless but that applies to all ADC's.

PhieldworkerJun 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q2VvdUwF,comment-id=000500000002,timestamp=2018-06-24T22:08:56.470+0000)

not sure how this really applies to any of the 3 you mentioned Varus specifically. Considering his winrate is currently 45.61%, the second lowest among the marksman.

He’s my go to adc right now because he counters the engage fest right now and I have a pretty good winrate with him. I don’t necessarily trust winrates because unless someone is gutted our has weak numbers you can win with anyone if played right.

BLIGHTBRINGERJun 25, 20181 votes

That is rather true.

SaibboJun 24, 20182 votes

I'd remove Xayah since she scales with Crit and if you don't go for crit you can lose +100 DMG on the E feathers... And idk if consider Ezreal viable with a -48% win rate

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20183 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/2ed2f160dfaa675388a5864ebb5aebf1.png

SaibboJun 24, 20181 votes

you can check by yourself : http://champion.gg/champion/Ezreal/ADC https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Ezreal/

plat+ 48.08% 46.73% plat 48.05% 47.01% gold 48.35% 47.18% silver 48.66% 47.40% bronze 48.09% 47.18%

it changes to site to site but bottom of the line the average overall is around 48%..

D357R0Y3RJun 24, 20182 votes

he's still one of the most picked adc in the game regardless of his win rate when you have such a high pick rate you're bound to have a low win rate look at fucking vlad WHO IS GAMEBREAKING RIGHT NOW

ezreal is strong one of the strongest adc of the moment, claiming that he isn't VIABLE is lol

SaibboJun 25, 20181 votes

when you have such a high pick rate you're bound to have a low win rate

yet lucian have the highest pick rate and the highest win rate and vlad expect bot has a decent win rate in top/mid also i'd like to say that it's just ""Gamebreaking"" only in late game when he gets more AP but is really weak in early and since this meta is how it is now you don't get in late very often

D357R0Y3RJun 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

yet lucian have the highest pick rate and the highest win rate

because lucian is even more broken and vlad is gamebreaking which is why he's getting a huge nerf in next patch

SaibboJun 25, 20181 votes

because lucian is even more broken

sure then why they didn't play him before the 8.11? you do realize that the only "buff" if you can call it a buff is the changes on ER? other than that he didn't receive ANY change and actually he got nerfed with the other ADCs with their base stats reduced and HP regen in 8.11 ??

D357R0Y3RJun 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

sure then why they didn't play him before the 8.11?

what? i'm playing lucian since a year, even when he had 42% win rate i played him yea i remember you you're the one who claims lucian didn't get buff when his powerspike item (BORK) got buffed+crit got nerfed and lucian can play without crit unlike the previous gamebreaking adcs that used crit plus sustain got nerfed allowing lucian to bully adcs once again

honestly it's a waste of time to repeat the discussion i had with you so i'm not goanna bother

PhieldworkerJun 24, 20182 votes

You have to remember a couple things. One it’s solo q so it’s going to be more disorganized and you can exploit that with the bruisers. Two marksmen are all scaling champs so bruisers are going to have the upper hand early but you have the advantage of farming safely. I think people are afraid to play passive because they think it’s cowardly. But changing playstyle between passive and aggressive is also a strat.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 24, 20182 votes

You can try to farm safely, sure. But you'll also get wiped as Xin/Irelia/Yasuo/Vlad just run at you and faceroll you to death, because they come online sooner, and out-stat you at basically every stage of the game,

420 gramsJun 24, 20182 votes

Just because imaqtpie thought itd be fun to play Irelia for 20 games (and lost 19 of them) doesn't mean high elo players are only playing bruisers.

VvVVvVJun 24, 20181 votes

bot lane is only like this because once people seen LCS and high elo do it a few times people who dont even play the role are now Queing up for it. That strat does not work in low elo.... im like 1 - 7 in games where someone on my team that got adc role didnt use a adc...... you can not expect a person to agree or support a certain meta if every time they have that strat used on their team they lose. I dont mind playing against it.....but having a 0-5 vlad on your team in the adc role is not fun.

SaibboJun 24, 20182 votes

That strat does not work in low elo....

nothing works in low elo.. ?

VvVVvVJun 24, 20182 votes

No, regular play works fine...im talking about the no adc bot strat.....prime example...my game that just ended....my team had a regular comp....other team had a mordekaiser with a morg support.........they went 0-5 & 0-7........... so just proves what i said before that game even started.......doesnt work in low elo....i dont mind playing against it because its easy wins like this game.....and i never win when people on my team try it.

SaibboJun 25, 20181 votes

.other team had a mordekaiser with a morg support.........they went 0-5 & 0-7

I'd find you many many games of traditional ADC + Support going with an even worse score... a single game doesn't prove that ADC are viable, especially when it happens in low elos where anything is actually possible and it's even more of a flip of a coin imo.. Also is the same thing as going melee against ranged top, if you don't know how to play the matchup obv he'll easily get run over. Plus I don't think that melee champion other than irelia and yasuo could do well bot, Mages are way better.

VvVVvVJun 25, 20181 votes

Who said anything about a single game? Oh and since you brought up Yasuo....i want to point you to yet another game that just finished ( this is starting to be funny because my last comment was perfect timing to use that game as a example...now i get to use this one) ......as i was saying..Yasuo...ok my game that just finished...yet another low elo player thinking they can make this work........this guy picks Yasuo into Brand / Morgana bot lane........do i need to tell you how it went?????

he finished 6-7 , most kills on the team but also most deaths...and 5 of those deaths was in the 1st 10 minutes...along with getting his support killed. So by time he started getting kills it was too damn late...other team was fed. So you know what happened after that? You guessed it....4 enemy mid while hes saying he has he has to afk farm bot to catch up. boom my towers gone.

SaibboJun 25, 20181 votes

Who said anything about a single game?

"prime example...my game that just ended...." "...so just proves what i said before that game even started"

he has to afk farm bot to catch up

yeah? that's what you do when you are behind......

but..... ok....... i do understand that you don't play bottom lane and......... you couldn't care less how it always happen outside your lane/champion poll...... as everyone else and me too :)........ and as i said....... low elo games seems like a flip of a coin anyway......... you could play nunu ADC and probably still win.......

VvVVvVJun 25, 20181 votes

I know you need to farm to catch up when behind...but my point in pointing that out was that it was his champ choice into what he was facing that put him in that situation..........there was no way he could think that he could even keep up in CS as a Yasuo vs a brand/Morgana bot lane. he would either have to try to farm at turret or try to farm in lane and risk dying. he chose to try to farm in lane and trade and ended up feeding hard very early. Which is exactly what i told him would happen in champ select when i tried to talk him into using a different champ.

As for the rest... I actually do play bottom lane. I was a support main before anything else......so I know the lane very well........

My most played champs are Volibear, Leona and Malphite.....i played them all support, (Volibear mainly back when Draven had his old passive, it was almost a guaranteed 1st blood every time) . And even though for the past 2 months I've played mainly Zyra......those 3 are still my most played and highest mastery score champs. I had to start queing for mid when i got demoted to bronze because that low of elo is unsupportable. Not saying i know everything but now that im much higher than i was at that time i could actually go back to support and have more trust in who im supporting right now IF they used a real adc.

Im not here to argue...everyone has their own opinions......and I base mine on the FACT that in my experience in my games so far that the bot role used anything other than a traditional adc.....they do not do well and the game results in a loss and its mainly their lane opponents who have the biggest impact to the game on the enemy team. Your games my be seeing different results....but that is how mine have been.