Useless troll picks that just sit behind turret or you all day and make you zoned from all CS. I don't like 1v2 lanes and would rather have Nunu that does something.
GerAvos5 votesJanna and Soraka aren't useless.
ryona2 votesJanna and Soraka aren't useless.
yes they are. Give context as to why they're not useless. I want real supports like
sheldonbunny4 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-03-04T20:39:03.601+0000)
yes they are. Give context as to why they're not useless. I want real supports like
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/583/041/d5c.jpg
ryona2 voteshttp://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/583/041/d5c.jpg
AND HOW IS IT BAIT WHEN MALZAHAR IS META AND AN ACTUAL SUPPORT THAT DOES SHIT
sheldonbunny3 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T20:50:27.609+0000)
AND HOW IS IT BAIT WHEN MALZAHAR IS META AND AN ACTUAL SUPPORT THAT DOES SHIT
The "real" support jab was the bait. When Janna and Soraka are sitting at 50+ win rate and Malzahar isn't, that's why it's comical. The lower in elo you go, the worse Malzahar support performs.
Soraka has always been woefully team dependent. You can heal a potato, but if it can't carry, you'll eventually have a dead team and be getting steamrolled by the enemy. Janna on the other hand can be played far more aggressively and is capable of being a bit less team reliant.
Either way picking on the actual supports is just silly. Besides if i'm going to take AP botlane, i'd rather the original lane bully for over two seasons. 
She easily beats the crap out of Malzahar if the person has any idea how to use her kit to the fullest.
I am curious though on your title. Unless there's a new Nunu support drama going on the way the Singed support was awhile back, i've not seen any complaints over it.
ryona2 votesThe "real" support jab was the bait. When Janna and Soraka are sitting at 50+ win rate and Malzahar isn't, that's why it's comical. The lower in elo you go, the worse Malzahar support performs.
Soraka has always been woefully team dependent. You can heal a potato, but if it can't carry, you'll eventually have a dead team and be getting steamrolled by the enemy. Janna on the other hand can be played far more aggressively and is capable of being a bit less team reliant.
Either way picking on the actual supports is just silly. Besides if i'm going to take AP botlane, i'd rather the original lane bully for over two seasons.
I am curious though on your title. Unless there's a new Nunu support drama going on the way the Singed support was awhile back, i've not seen any complaints over it.
winrate means nothing
sheldonbunny2 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:07:51.044+0000)
winrate means nothing
Might want to inform Riot's balancing team about that. They seem to fixate on it often enough.
Still waiting on the explanation about Nunu support btw. I don't make inquiries for fun but for answers.
ryona2 votesMight want to inform Riot's balancing team about that. They seem to fixate on it often enough.
Still waiting on the explanation about Nunu support btw. I don't make inquiries for fun but for answers.
Nunu is super tanky and slows shit with a point n click.
sheldonbunny2 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:17:37.449+0000)
Nunu is super tanky and slows shit with a point n click.
You might want to reread my original inquiry. I didn't ask how to Nunu support, I asked why you mention him getting banned.
ryona2 votesYou might want to reread my original inquiry. I didn't ask how to Nunu support, I asked why you mention him getting banned.
because it's still a trollish pick
sheldonbunny2 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:21:51.655+0000)
because it's still a trollish pick
So in other words, no new drama cropped up.
And he's off meta, but by no means trollish. He was a common enough support a few seasons back. You might just be playing with people who weren't around back then to remember, etc.
No.
He was banned for "not communicating well".
That was the exact reason given.
The ban was also rescinded because it violated his rights as a player which he agreed to when he signed the ToS.
100% of players are guilty of "not communicating well", we don't have client side voice chat.
So there was a Nunu issue? Or is this the previously mentioned Singed support drama.
ryona2 votesSo in other words, no new drama cropped up.
And he's off meta, but by no means trollish. He was a common enough support a few seasons back. You might just be playing with people who weren't around back then to remember, etc.
So there was a Nunu issue? Or is this the previously mentioned Singed support drama.
jesus christ why are you such a killjoy
The Last Ballad1 votesNunu smite "support" abandons his adc bot lane, almost never is bot, and counter jungles nearly constantly. Also occasionally steals camps from his jungler. Regular nunu support is not very good(to me) but hardly reportable. The smite to me is, based on #4 of the bannable offenses "not focusing on the team aspect of the game", where the example is refusing to help out a specific teammate in a certain lane.(say the adc in bot lane)
However, I would report counter jungling smite supports(there have been supports that have taken smite, but that was a zyra v braum game and he couldn't get to the minions to get his stacks off, so he smote them) just for making a mockery of my chosen position. Supports support their team, not go off somewhere else and hope that them making a member of the enemy team useless is worth making a member of their team nearly just as useless.
And even then it isn't the strategy that is being banned, but the fact that he forces random adcs to comply to it, instead of finding an adc to duo with to do this.
sheldonbunny1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Last Ballad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:28:45.975+0000)
Nunu smite "support" abandons his adc bot lane, almost never is bot, and counter jungles nearly constantly. Also occasionally steals camps from his jungler. Regular nunu support is not very good(to me) but hardly reportable. The smite to me is, based on #4 of the bannable offenses "not focusing on the team aspect of the game", where the example is refusing to help out a specific teammate in a certain lane.(say the adc in bot lane)
However, I would report counter jungling smite supports(there have been supports that have taken smite, but that was a zyra v braum game and he couldn't get to the minions to get his stacks off, so he smote them) just for making a mockery of my chosen position. Supports support their team, not go off somewhere else and hope that them making a member of the enemy team useless is worth making a member of their team nearly just as useless.
And even then it isn't the strategy that is being banned, but the fact that he forces random adcs to comply to it, instead of finding an adc to duo with to do this.
This basically sounds like that specific Singed support player that people were talking about awhile back. He used the same tactics. So is this another incident based on one person, or a rising phenomenon in the playerbase?
As for reporting counter jungling supports, i'd say it depends. Back when Ivern first came out I spammed him as support. I tested out both exhaust and smite. Now, I do not jungle *at all so for me it was a new experience even using smite to begin with. The most I would do early game was before laning began i'd steal enemy red or blue then stay put with my bot laner. Mid to late game i'd poach enemy camps when opportunities were available.
As a support main I always take the role seriously and feel duty bound to guard my bot laner like a mama bird, but that's just me.
[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:35:27.285+0000)
jesus christ why are you such a killjoy
It's one of my many charms...
jaymc11304 votes[{quoted}](name=The Last Ballad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:28:45.975+0000)
Nunu smite "support" abandons his adc bot lane, almost never is bot, and counter jungles nearly constantly. Also occasionally steals camps from his jungler. Regular nunu support is not very good(to me) but hardly reportable. The smite to me is, based on #4 of the bannable offenses "not focusing on the team aspect of the game", where the example is refusing to help out a specific teammate in a certain lane.(say the adc in bot lane)
However, I would report counter jungling smite supports(there have been supports that have taken smite, but that was a zyra v braum game and he couldn't get to the minions to get his stacks off, so he smote them) just for making a mockery of my chosen position. Supports support their team, not go off somewhere else and hope that them making a member of the enemy team useless is worth making a member of their team nearly just as useless.
And even then it isn't the strategy that is being banned, but the fact that he forces random adcs to comply to it, instead of finding an adc to duo with to do this.
Mate, you folks have got to actually learn what supporting is.
This is an expertly played supportive strategy that the whole team benefits from: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rE76DP8ReIc
It can only work if the whole team understands what is being done to acquire income and level advantages for priority team members.
The adc in this game was forced to comply. But he didn't bitch and whine and moan, no, he's a high level player who understood how the strategy could work to his advantage and he played perfectly as part of that strategy. Even though it's clear he doesn't like being forced into it, he recognizes how it can be effective and he plays in such a way as to take advantage of that. Ultimately he was so well supported (as was the whole team) that he carried mid game fights and won the game on the back of the level and income advantages created by the unusual strategy.
Support does not mean "lane with the adc".
Support means "empower the rest of the team to compliment their capabilities while using as few resources as possible that would be better off going to priority team members".
sheldonbunny2 votesSupport does not mean "lane with the adc".
Support means "empower the rest of the team to compliment their capabilities while using as few resources as possible that would be better off going to priority team members".
Issue is in low elo support does typically mean babysit the bot laner. Even a Bard who goes to collect chimes for a moment often has his lanemate get 2v1'd. Higher elo marksmen know how to play safe when alone in lane. Lower elo...not so much.
jaymc11304 votesIssue is in low elo support does typically mean babysit the bot laner. Even a Bard who goes to collect chimes for a moment often has his lanemate get 2v1'd. Higher elo marksmen know how to play safe when alone in lane. Lower elo...not so much.
Well I think we can agree here that we definitely can't use player skill (or lack of it) as justification to enact rules. If we banned all players who weren't very skilled then all of bronze through platinum would be banned and half of diamond as well. If we didn't let unskilled players play rank there would be no ranked ladder. If only skilled players who got an S+ in a match were awarded MMR and LP then no one would ever move up on the ladder.
We can't punish the low level adc for not knowing how to play a 1v2 lane for periods of time and we can't punish a low level support for not knowing when it's appropriate to roam off and when it's important to stay to protect a priority teammate.
This is the tenant of the ToS that protects players from being punished for playing poorly, a player's lack of skill only affects their position on the ladder. (And everyone on their team, but that's because the ranked system itself is poorly designed and does not take into account individual skill metrics.)
sheldonbunny1 votesWell I think we can agree here that we definitely can't use player skill (or lack of it) as justification to enact rules. If we banned all players who weren't very skilled then all of bronze through platinum would be banned and half of diamond as well. If we didn't let unskilled players play rank there would be no ranked ladder. If only skilled players who got an S+ in a match were awarded MMR and LP then no one would ever move up on the ladder.
We can't punish the low level adc for not knowing how to play a 1v2 lane for periods of time and we can't punish a low level support for not knowing when it's appropriate to roam off and when it's important to stay to protect a priority teammate.
This is the tenant of the ToS that protects players from being punished for playing poorly, a player's lack of skill only affects their position on the ladder. (And everyone on their team, but that's because the ranked system itself is poorly designed and does not take into account individual skill metrics.)
I think you jumped the gun here. No one was even inferring that a low elo marksman should be banned for not knowing how to play safe alone in lane. The point I was making was that low elo play creates the greater need to keep a support in lane during laning phase. When it's a duo it's far easier, but in solo queue it's not always easy to be roaming. Additionally unless your roams become worth while, such as managing to counter jungle, you'll end up in an experience deficit. People are already complaining over the experience gap on supports as is.
I'm in no way saying a support has to be glued to the marksmen's hip. I'm simply pointing out that certain strategies used in higher elo has mixed results the lower down you go. Try watching a team of bronze players knowing how, when and why to rotate lanes as example. A straight forward tactic that is lost on a fair amount of the playerbase when you consider how many are gold or below.
jaymc11301 votesI think you jumped the gun here. No one was even inferring that a low elo marksman should be banned for not knowing how to play safe alone in lane. The point I was making was that low elo play creates the greater need to keep a support in lane during laning phase. When it's a duo it's far easier, but in solo queue it's not always easy to be roaming. Additionally unless your roams become worth while, such as managing to counter jungle, you'll end up in an experience deficit. People are already complaining over the experience gap on supports as is.
I'm in no way saying a support has to be glued to the marksmen's hip. I'm simply pointing out that certain strategies used in higher elo has mixed results the lower down you go. Try watching a team of bronze players knowing how, when and why to rotate lanes as example. A straight forward tactic that is lost on a fair amount of the playerbase when you consider how many are gold or below.
Oh, there's no question some styles and strategies aren't well suited to a particular skill range. I don't think that's deniable at all. The point was more that the players are low level because they don't understand those types of things. Not that because they don't understand them they deserve punishment. I was just using an extreme example to make the case. Apologies if that was unclear.
khorney1 votesyah ever since i started playing malz as a supp inventing it in a sense. been doing it since they reworked him zyra was the person i would lose to the most on account of her being able to easily bust the passive.
sheldonbunny1 votesyah ever since i started playing malz as a supp inventing it in a sense. been doing it since they reworked him zyra was the person i would lose to the most on account of her being able to easily bust the passive.
Pretty much this. A good Zyra will constantly keep his shield off and has the zoning space to keep him away from their bot laner and themselves.
Oh, there's no question some styles and strategies aren't well suited to a particular skill range. I don't think that's deniable at all. The point was more that the players are low level because they don't understand those types of things. Not that because they don't understand them they deserve punishment. I was just using an extreme example to make the case. Apologies if that was unclear.
Thanks for the follow up explanation. I agree that that would be unjustified punishment.
That was 4+ years ago all meta and many non meta supports shut on it. Maybe it can still work with Caitlyn but jana does the same better
I recall it in season 4 and 5 as well, so I wouldn't say 4+ years. It's not about who is best at doing something, but can it work. Plenty of off meta supports work well. As example I have a fair amount of success with Orianna, Fiddle, Maokai, and Galio support. It's honestly about the player's awareness, ability to adapt, and the team's ability to work around that champion's kit.
khorney1 votestrue true, this issue lies in the fact that adcs or the team no matter how well you do or how well the adc does they will always complain about the supp.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER2 votesNunu wasn't banned for playing support. He was banned for playing Jungler v2.
ryona2 votesNunu wasn't banned for playing support. He was banned for playing Jungler v2.
double jungling can work.
sheldonbunny1 votes[{quoted}](name=gas reformed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T20:35:11.985+0000)
double jungling can work.
Unless it's agreed upon ahead of time by the whole team, then no.
Janna and Soraka aren't useless.
Though neither is Nunu. He's not part of the meta, but a couple seasons back NuNu support was played a fair bit, even a little in competitive.
The Last Ballad1 votesNunu support is different from Nunu smite support. Mainly in the fact that he actually supports his adc by poking/slowing, tanking(the heal is nice for this), and boosting the adc's attack speed. Smite support isn't in lane to do any of these things.
XxxLumberJackxxX1 votesUnless it's agreed upon ahead of time by the whole team, then no.
Though neither is Nunu. He's not part of the meta, but a couple seasons back NuNu support was played a fair bit, even a little in competitive.
That was 4+ years ago all meta and many non meta supports shut on it. Maybe it can still work with Caitlyn but jana does the same better
The Last Ballad1 votesIf. If. IF the adc agrees to it. My sister and I have kicked around the idea of a duo jungle, back when exp was shared, but we agreed that either the adc's permission was necessary or we needed to find someone who was down with 1v2ing. This person? Obviously he doesn't have such stipulations.
jaymc11303 votesNunu wasn't banned for playing support. He was banned for playing Jungler v2.
No.
He was banned for "not communicating well".
That was the exact reason given.
The ban was also rescinded because it violated his rights as a player which he agreed to when he signed the ToS.
100% of players are guilty of "not communicating well", we don't have client side voice chat.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votesRight so leaving your adc alone to 2v1 until the 6 min mark while you counter jungle isn't double jungle /logic
jinxedchef2 votesWow I must be getting old: I can't tell if the OP is trolling, ignorant, or stupid. If I had to pick one, I'd say trolling.
Mysticman892 votesI generally consider jannas/sorakas who sit way back to probably be simply playing those champs poorly, rather than it being an issue with those champs.
Although versus a zyra, you're probably doomed to be pretty shoved in in most match ups to begin with, so may as well be playing safe until the jungler shows.
Poop Jelly2 votesIn what world is Janna & Soraka considered in tier with troll picks... This is news to me because usually people complain about how these 2 always stay on top of bot lane supports...
ryona1 votes[{quoted}](name=Poop Jelly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uQLWnWdy,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-04T22:19:41.569+0000)
In what world is Janna & Soraka considered in tier with troll picks... This is news to me because usually people complain about how these 2 always stay on top of bot lane supports...
in the real world
TheLastShadow451 votesyou're saying this even though you played 
. umm....
khorney1 voteslol indeed
sobi9991 votesOh hi there again. You back with your pointless threads again pftt
Look i am a soraka main and i understand they are currently weak in this meta. Maybe you should do more research and come with a concise and constructive argument to back your opinions. Janna will always be good due to her peel but even i feel burst mage is the go-to option right now. Soraka can't heal adc if they're going to die in 0.5sec. Janna atleast can peel for them.
Titanium701 votesWell, following the wording of those bans on Singed/Nunu - Yes. Aynthing is reportable if your team doesnt like your pick.
That's bullshit - obviously, but hey - Rito-Statements. =P
BeatzBoyFTW1 voteshttps://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=gas%20reformed
Ironic. So technically, you should be banned according to your logic.
