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Removing Celestial Body is such a fucking unbelievably stupid decision IT HURTS

ryona··47 votes·9,877 views
2/8 PBE Update

Celestial Body is currently being removed on the PBE in favor of an absolutely dogshit talent that merely gives 20% additional Elixir uptime, which is in fact a perk set of Inspiration right now. This is not actually being owed to Celestial Body being overpowered but being seen as garbage and underused.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=banjayceforme

I need to go into Sorcery as Singed for Celerity, but heavily lean toward the use of Future's Market. To compensate for the fact that I have no resistances, I use Celestial Body for 100+ HP and an additional 60+ from Doran's Ring to get by the early laning phase. This is absolutely necessary in a game that promotes ranged top and damage if you opt out of Resolve.

I REALLY DON'T SEE THE LOGIC IN WHY IT IS BEING REMOVED.

95 Comments

L Psy Kongroo36 votes

So Riot's solution for a rune that almost nobody uses............is to replace it with a rune that even LESS people are going to use?

[sg-lux-2]

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Idk contrary to the OP for the Singeds that build Dark Seal -> Corrupting or just Corrupting will probably want this rune.

For basically everyone else though, yeah no. Inspiration is currently a sort of "these are the best runes in this tree" kind of tree.

Helmight12 votes

I think the reason nobody used Celestial Body is because they saw the -10% damage and immediately noped out. That really hurts your ability to trade, and the additional 100 hp looks bad on paper.

Increasing potion duration is a good way to give players another defensive-minded rune that doesn't have a downside, which automatically makes it more attractive. I'm alright with at least seeing where this goes.

Red Wreckage2 votes

I'll take 100 HP over 7-8 less damage on my AAs any day

Helmight7 votes

Sure, I'm not saying that Celestial Body was a bad idea. I'm just saying that the fact that it had a downside at all is what caused people to ignore it. And fighting human nature is a losing battle in game design.

Malcha5 votes

That last bit needs to be on a t-shirt

Squey5 votes

celestial body was already fantastic on support champs or lanes with hard match ups (melee verse ranged). No reason why it should be removed. People will learn its usefulness.

Sightless662 votes

It absolutely wasn't fantastic on supports. Most supports desperately need their damage for the laning phase. It's fine if it falls off afterwards, but less damage means less trading potential, and that's a killer early on. You don't need 100 extra health; you do need the ability to threaten to kill your opponent. It only makes sense on someone who already carries very low kill pressure and has relatively low alternative rune synergy, but the only one who really meets that criteria is Braum. Even he's usually better off going for either approach velocity or just skipping the tree entirely and taking future market.

Illâoi Evê Siôn7 votes

20% Potion Time and 5% Movement Speed is something people would use.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

it appears to me the intention is to force junglers to get item 2031 item 2032 and the new rune, given the reduced lifesteal on jungle item as well; sustain is going to be harder for junglers overall, and junglers r gonna have to make trade-offs between farming and ganking. Even just by looking at the new jungle item which thrives on counter jungling, i think it's pretty evident that riot wants junglers to be punished for ganking too much.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

New jungle item will not go live - Meddler confirmed it to be something that was not even tested much (or at all?) internally, so...

notice me Sin pi2 votes

even if it doesnt go live, just the fact that riot tried to implement it supports my argument--- riot wants junglers to make meaningful trade-offs between farming and ganking

redniwediS26 votes

You may have gotten use out of it, but Celestial Body has a 2.8% pick rate. You're in a very small minority here, with the majority considering that rune a waste of space.

Oleandervine4 votes

What he said. I literally never saw anyone use it over Cosmic Insight or Approach Velocity.

Jaspers7 votes

{quoted}

What he said. I literally never saw anyone use it over Cosmic Insight or Approach Velocity.

Pretty useful on tank supports or top laners laning against against ranged champs. If you take Resolve first, you get 230 extra HP early on in exchange for just 10% less damage? that's a good deal.

It's a shame as I'm likely to make less use of the new one. But alas.

ryona3 votes

{quoted}

Pretty useful on tank supports or top laners laning against against ranged champs. If you take Resolve first, you get 230 extra HP early on in exchange for just 10% less damage? that's a good deal.

It's a shame as I'm likely to make less use of the new one. But alas.

This is the state of the fucking game right now and they propose removing Celestial Body.

Salron10 votes

That clip supposed to mean something?

Venomar5 votes

It means, without celestial body, he can't dick around In lane at half health, over extended with no vision against an enemy with flash and ult who is looking to punish his shitty proxy. It means he might have to think about his choices. Feelsbadman.

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

On the bright side, with the new rune, he gets bonus healing & movement speed, which makes laning against an ulting Singed a lot more toxic.

xx pops1 votes

Everything you just wrote has nothing to do with what he posted and is petty of you to do so.

Celestial Body is great when paired with Resolve Primary for top laners who wish to be very difficult to remove from lane.
Grasp, Demo, Iron Skin, Second Wind, Biscuits, and Celestial Body on a champ like Poppy for example makes it extremely difficult for people to poke her out of lane.

A more likely clarification of what he implied was that Celestial Body is a Conservative / Defensive rune option. I agree it sucks that this play style cannot be embraced. There's nothing wrong with being a rock in lane at the expense of immediate solo kill pressure early. You can still get pressure by out-sustaining. As well as smart use of TP.

ryona4 votes

{quoted}

You may have gotten use out of it, but Celestial Body has a 2.8% pick rate. You're in a very small minority here, with the majority considering that rune a waste of space.

So is that all it takes? If no one used Future's Market, you just remove it? I was even using Inspiration primary with biscuits in tier one until it was forcibly removed with boots.

Colgate Gator12 votes

[{quoted}](name=ban Jayce for me,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-02-08T21:50:46.767+0000)

So is that all it takes? If no one used Future's Market, you just remove it? I was even using Inspiration primary with biscuits in tier one until it was forcibly removed with boots.

Since they're trying to add meaningful choices to the runes in a tight package, if nobodyused Future market, then, yeah, it'd be removed instead of Celestial body.

Pandemic Punch12 votes

Singed is a bad example.... That synergy with Dark Seal and Corrupting potion + new Liandry's + that extra movement speed synergy as well 0_0!

Singed will probably steal my heart when that comes out :-)

AmazoX4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-08T21:58:58.244+0000)

Singed is a bad example.... That synergy with Dark Seal and Corrupting potion + new Liandry's + that extra movement speed synergy as well 0_0!

Singed will probably steal my heart when that comes out :-)

Singed is gonna be a pain in the ass next patch.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

he's always

Luxana Crowngard9 votes

Lol rip, I used Celestial Body on Sona to counteract her insane squishiness in lane.

Auroramancer7 votes

I love this rune, there is an appropriate tradeoff for the benefit, and it's not being abused. There is a niche of champions who like it, and it also heavily depends on whether the player wants to opt into it or not.

More runes need to be like Celestial Body

Purejoyce2 votes

{quoted}

there is an appropriate tradeoff for the benefit, and it's being abused.

By who? Where?

Auroramancer2 votes

I accidentally left out a critical "not".

Fixed my original comment.

RiotSparkle7 votes

We know some players are really attached to Celestial Body, and we know there are feel bads around removing any rune. :c That being said, the logic to remove it is this:

  • Inspiration is not intended to be the first choice Path for defenses or resistances.
  • We are putting in some new/other defensive runes in Resolve (Bone Plating, etc.) which overlap a lot of the same gameplay space as Celestial Body.
  • Tonic is not intended to be a direct replacement for Body even though we're adding that and removing Body at the same time.

EDIT: PS Sorry for being late to seeing this topic.

Foucz10 votes

Inspiration is not intended to be the first choice Path for defenses or resistances.

What is it intended to do then ? And please dont tell me its supposed to be quirky and fun.... Its supposed to have creative tools and rule bending, so isnt one of rule bending part that this path has defensive and ofensive choices ? It also has perfect timing which i could argue is the best defensive minor in the game.

We are putting in some new/other defensive runes in Resolve (Bone Plating, etc.) which overlaps a lot of the same gameplay space as Celestial Body.

And everyone is giving you feedback about how that rune is going to break the game and make it even less about laning phase. It will only help weak early game tanks be even more obnoxious and will put on top strong early tanks as unmovable walls.

Tonic is not intended to fill the same niche as Body even though we're adding that and removing Body at the same time.

Why ?

Honestly it all feels like you guys at riot always thought of inspiration as the "fun" runes that were maybe to be used for fun in normals from time to time and you didnt pay much attention to them and when they started to be most picked ones whole balance team panicked.

I will also use this post to exclaim how sad i am that a lot of champions are forced to pick aery just because i dont see them have any other good offensive choice.

RiotSparkle4 votes

We've always thought of Inspiration as a competitive Path, for sure. But Inspiration is intended to be about "twisty" power - power that is indirect (Futures Market) or applied correctly situationally (Perfect Timing or Hexflash).

Open to discussion about which runes fall in line with that identity or fall short in your opinion, but the evaluation from us was that +100 health was a pretty direct and broadly applicable defensive tool that would probably be better suited to somewhere like Resolve in the future.

Flemman2 votes

I feel like free item rune fall short in the situationally part. If the item provided is too good, everyone must take it while if the item is not cost effeicient you sabotage yourself by taking the rune.

They are to binary to me (the item is worth taking or not) and unlike future market where you can do a lot of different stuff with it, the decision making involving those are pretty low

Bootleg Gay2 votes

Why not opt to change Celestial Body to the Resolve path instead -Under a new name of course- rather than remove it completely? Was it just not a healthy rune?

Ultîma2 votes

Honestly, stopwatch is far more offensive of an item (and rune) in regular and pro-play than Celestial Body and taken on virtually everyone. Shouldn't that be a balancing priority?

Chroneps1 votes

Would be by far better to remove Minion Dematerializer instead of Celestial Body as that one is completly useless.

rtbf2216514121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=001700000000,timestamp=2018-02-10T03:29:29.493+0000)

We've always thought of Inspiration as a competitive Path, for sure. But Inspiration is intended to be about "twisty" power - power that is indirect (Futures Market) or applied correctly situationally (Perfect Timing or Hexflash).

Open to discussion about which runes fall in line with that identity or fall short in your opinion, but the evaluation from us was that +100 health was a pretty direct and broadly applicable defensive tool that would probably be better suited to somewhere like Resolve in the future.

You couldn't get rid of some of the useless runes in Resolve instead?

Or maybe get rid of some of the runes that obviously are not healthy for the game?

ChaddyFantome3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-02-10T00:16:06.286+0000)

We know some players are really attached to Celestial Body, and we know there are feel bads around removing any rune. :c That being said, the logic to remove it is this:

  • Inspiration is not intended to be the first choice Path for defenses or resistances.

See, the problem with that is you guys kinda forced it to be with the Resolve + X Tree interaction changes the other patch.

JackPringle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sparkle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-02-10T00:16:06.286+0000)

We know some players are really attached to Celestial Body, and we know there are feel bads around removing any rune. :c That being said, the logic to remove it is this:

  • Inspiration is not intended to be the first choice Path for defenses or resistances.
  • We are putting in some new/other defensive runes in Resolve (Bone Plating, etc.) which overlap a lot of the same gameplay space as Celestial Body.
  • Tonic is not intended to be a direct replacement for Body even though we're adding that and removing Body at the same time.

I'm just wondering is there any chance of it being re added even under the more appropriate resolve tree, I think a few of us would like it better than the late game health of overgrowth or font of life or demolish(unpopular opinion but i think demolish isn't completely needed these days with how fast turrets died) for as op said about bad match ups. In comparison to bone plating i feel its more upfront tankiness that some people may like more than bone plating.

LordGeovanni5 votes

Celestial body is a bad rune that bearly does anything what its being replaced with doesnt seem any better though

RottedApples4 votes

I really like celestial body, granted i don't use it on many champions but i'm not playing tanky champions that would benefit from the health more than the early damage hurts but it's a nice rune and it has it's uses.

Acheron164 votes

"Rune that gives you HP in exchange of damage?

Nah man, remove that shit, it doesn't fit the bombastic style of gameplay we want."

Rito Gaems, 2018

swanington3 votes

I love celestial body on tank support. Sad day =(

PopcornBunni2 votes

Okay I get wanting to take out the passive potion boost from the set bonus, but not replace Approach Velocity which is completely worthless rather than the +100 health that low base helath tanks need (Poppy Shen )

Why remove durability in favor of a ridiculously niche rune only Singed will make use of?

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Okay I get wanting to take out the passive potion boost from the set bonus, but not replace Approach Velocity which is completely worthless rather than the +100 health that low base helath tanks need (Poppy Shen )

Why remove durability in favor of a ridiculously niche rune only Singed will make use of?

Approach Velocity is sick tho. It just lacks visually appreciable effects.

Muttsmutt2 votes

i second, third, and fourth this. i actually liked celestial body, wtf?

INoble KnightI1 votes

Then go Resolve/ Sorcery?

ryona1 votes

[{quoted}](name=INoble KnightI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NVzcLewi,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-02-09T12:45:29.041+0000)

Then go Resolve/ Sorcery?

future's market

INoble KnightI3 votes

Not really that worth on Singed honestly.

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