My Ult kills everything in a cone. What does your's do?
It makes people run fast.
....
I'm dead aren't I?
In a major way.
Why do people pick Sivir still? Even if you can win with her she is still outclassed on paper. She doesn't even seem that much fun to play.
Oleandervine4 votesSivir, unlike Fortune, can chase foes down and kill them, given that when Sivir hits enemies, she runs faster, coupled with her ult. Miss Fortune can run fast until she takes a hit, in which event she's hosed if she's being pursued. What's more, Sivir has a faster and more effective wave clear than Miss Fortune, and with Ricochet, she can extend her basic attack range much longer than Miss Fortune can with Double Up, given that Sivir has minions to bounce off of. There are strengths and weaknesses to both ladies, but Sivir is by no means a bad pick.
Occams Raiser1 votesOk. I'll keep it in mind. I have to check their pick ban stats and win rate. But I think we both know what I will find
DrNova3 votesJust because you don't know sivors strengths doesn't mean she is bad, just means you have more to learn.
Occams Raiser1 votesThat was point t. I would never pick her over mf. I wanted to know why someone would. Is she a late game champ? She's not a lane bully, at least she doesn't bully mf.
DrNova1 votes[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNzvpOGz,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-01-30T19:58:26.049+0000)
That was point t. I would never pick her over mf. I wanted to know why someone would. Is she a late game champ? She's not a lane bully, at least she doesn't bully mf.
She has excellent waveclear, better then MF. Her primary strength I believe. Better at seiging. And her spellsheild thing is immensely invaluable.
Her ult is great for getting a team wide escape, or initiation, or getting your teamteam to an objective. More of a teamwork ult.
It sounds like you only value kill power, but that's not the only was to play, and a good sivir is going to get her first tower before MF will I'd wager.
Occams Raiser1 votesThat's true but at low mmr it seems that kill power is easier to comprehend than siege power. I don't agree with the mindset but I have to work with it.
ADepressedLeona3 votesSivir's ult makes her entire team go fast, not just her :P
In any rate, both have their own strengths and weaknesses, and both have their place in different comps. Both are pretty good.
Occams Raiser1 votesBut who wins vs? I just have yet to see a Sivir player do well.
ADepressedLeona1 votes[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNzvpOGz,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-01-31T02:35:58.136+0000)
But who wins vs? I just have yet to see a Sivir player do well.
Bot lane match ups are usually decided based on how good the supports are. In a straight 1v1, MF would probably win, but that doesn't matter, because this isn't a 1v1 game. Lol
Beldair1 votesI've destroyed an MF as Sivir. My Atk speed build becomes ridiculous as well as my Crit build.
Now i will say, my wins against MF are due to good timing on my support. See, what makes Sivir strong is her wave clear, spell shield, Ricochet gets a speed boost due to passive on ult, ult is team based speed boost, Boomerange Blade (Q) has decent range and does dmg twice.
Bhagswag2 votesShe's fun to play.
Your problem is with people playing whatever the fuck they like playing. They got the game too; who are you to tell them how to play as long as they follow the Terms and Conditions?
Occams Raiser1 votes..... strawman
Shonjl1 votesIdk about you but from what I got from the thread. He wasn't so much as saying don't play Sivir. But moreso why would you play her, and moreso against an MF which is one of the better ADCs atm.
So saying because she is fun to play doesn't solve anything. I find Garen being fun to play, doesn't mean I will bring him botlane. What he was looking for was stuff like "Sivir Q is better waveclear and poke than MF can do in return" and such like that.
1st Movement2 votesSivir counters mf it just takes skills to use spell shield and win every trade.
Occams Raiser1 votesI'm going by stats not anecdotal evidence.
A Miss Fortune2 votesSivir is okay. She isn't the best ADC at all but she isn't the worst either. She's great in solo queue and teams because she can tie a team together regardless of what they pick. Her ultimate allows for strong engages, disengages, and kiting for her entire team. The only thing I think she needs is maybe buff her passive a bit or change it up.
Occams Raiser1 votesShe needs something
Quepha1 votesHow does letting your allies run out of the cone fast not help against miss fortune?
Occams Raiser1 votesYou will always be running away
Oleandervine1 votesAccording to LolKing, Sivir has a current 3.5% pick rate, a 48.2% win rate, and a 0% ban rate. Miss Fortune, being flavor of the month, has a 18.8% pick rate, a 51.7% win rate, and a 0.4% ban rate. Their win rates only difference by 3.5%, and pick rates are next to meaningless considering that most people try to play champions that they see the pros use, and since Miss Fortune is currently being used by higher ups, naturally her popularity will increase. The same thing happened with Sivir, after her rework.
Occams Raiser1 votesIf you do the raw numbers on that you will find a significant difference. Mf:sivir 3.5 of players win more often with mf. And sivir never gets banned out of all threats. Flavor of the month is a bias statement towards the meta data. They are the flavor for a reason.
Oleandervine2 votes[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNzvpOGz,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2016-01-30T20:57:57.861+0000)
If you do the raw numbers on that you will find a significant difference. Mf:sivir 3.5 of players win more often with mf. And sivir never gets banned out of all threats. Flavor of the month is a bias statement towards the meta data. They are the flavor for a reason.
They are the flavor for a reason, yes, but a 3.5% win difference isn't that noteworthy. When it comes to flavor of the month champs, they're always in a state of constant flux. Just because Miss Fortune is popular now doesn't necessarily means she's a be-all-end-all ADC. All it takes to usurp her popularity is another pro taking another lesser used ADC and stomping through games with them. Take previous seasons for example. I can't recall which season it was, but the popular ADCs nearly the entire season was Lucian, and then Kalista when she launched. Then all of a sudden, the pro Twitch used Twitch in a few games, won them, and all of a sudden there's a surge in Twitch players, resulting in nerfs to him at the end of the season. He wasn't remarkable nor was his kit any different than it usually was; Hell, he didn't even have that many advantages (aside from range in his R) over Kalista and Lucian, but a pro did well with him and people suddenly think he's meta when they didn't even bat and eyelash before. So popularity doesn't really account for much in this game. What does count is win rates, as high win rates typically mean that a champion is on the verge of OP or oppressive, while a low win rate tends to reflect a colossal flaw in kit design or power output that leaves them behind (usually a reflection of the older champs who get steamrolled by new kits.) Win rates around 50%, give or take a few percent tend to reflect a balance with very little need for fixing.
Occams Raiser1 votesWithout knowing the numbers the "pro effect" has on popularity, o don't think you can throw the pick rate out. And what is 3.5 of 27 million? There is a 3% variance. That could be a victory difference of one million games. Sound scientifically relevant.
Oleandervine3 votes[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNzvpOGz,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-30T21:51:22.961+0000)
Without knowing the numbers the "pro effect" has on popularity, o don't think you can throw the pick rate out. And what is 3.5 of 27 million? There is a 3% variance. That could be a victory difference of one million games. Sound scientifically relevant.
Statistical significance is 5% in almost all experiments and population studies, so a 3.5% rate would be just shy of a significant value. And 3.5% of 27,000,000 is only 945,000, which is not even a million players. In a population base as massive as 27 million, not even breaking a million isn't all that relevant, despite the fact that large numbers are being used.
Occams Raiser1 votesNo. Not of the player base that is successful. It is of the entire base that pick MF over sivir. THen we you that extra 945,000 people, and say how many of them is successful. The answer is whatever MF's win rate is as a multiple. But that is here nor there. The real test would only be concluded after a head to head against the two champs with a rotation of matched supps. Then we would compare laning vs lat game. I think mf isn't quite a hyper carry but sivir is far from it, is she not?
The Bearded Bard1 votesSivir's more of a wave clearing/utility ADC than anything. Mf focuses on what to do once someone starts a teamfight, Sivir focuses on actually starting that teamfight.
Jalkan1 votesEverybody knows that Sivir lacks in overall dueling power, but people pick her for the ult.
Niyumi1 votesMF is a lane bully, and doesn't do too well out of lane. She does damage, and that's it.
Sivir is also a lane bully, but not as big a one. She performs very well out of lane and in teamfights, and has a team-wide MS boost along with a spellshield to block everything from Renkitty (seriously, you can block his Q, and make his ult useless) to MF's Q.
In a straight damage contest, MF.
In a team contest, Sivir.