How much of Syndra's power budget is allocated to her ability to cast spells while moving?

L Psy Kongroo·Dec 3, 2017·55 votes·2,926 views

Not a complaint thread about Syndra, I'm actually curious because to me this seems like an extremely underrated feature for a mage. Certain other mages have this ability on one or two of their spells (e.g. W, E) but Syndra has it on all 4 of her spells.

This lack of cast times makes her deceptively mobile in situations where other mages would have to make a choice: either stand and fight, or run away. Syndra can do both at the same time, and I think that makes her feel a lot smoother to play than others of her class.

How much does Riot value this ability to move while casting when it comes to assessing a champion's power? Have they ever thought to add this feature to other "immobile" mages that might need a slight modernization tweak? What are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

34 Comments

Seviel VoroseDec 4, 201757 votes

Her E and her R do have a cast time, and work exactly like any other mage spell. The only spells you can cast while moving are Q and W. This thread spreads wrong informations.

Papa AndreiDec 4, 20172 votes

Wel her E is a big knockback/stun so it negates its cast time, and R is a fore and forget so the majority of its use happens after you cast. Almost every other mage has to still work/aim their R,

MrHaZeYoDec 4, 201717 votes

Actually she doesn't have it on her E, also not sure about Ult either. I think when she ults she has to stop.

Either way I feel like not to much of her power is allocated to that.

AhrisDec 4, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Actually she doesn't have it on her E, also not sure about Ult either. I think when she ults she has to stop.

Either way I feel like not to much of her power is allocated to that.

Moving while casting removes the counterplay against casting spell. When casting spell, it is a mini self stun. So during this time, most laners abuse this timing to poke the enemy.

Moving while casting is basically that much more movement speed covered over the cast duration. This also means that kiting is very powerful on this champ.

MrHaZeYoDec 4, 20171 votes

I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you said.

I still don't think much of her power is allocated to that feature though.

AhrisDec 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't think I ever disagreed with anything you said.

I still don't think much of her power is allocated to that feature though.

You said you dont think much power is allocated to that, it is definetly a really strong strength that makes certain champs a lane bully.

MrHaZeYoDec 4, 20172 votes

I meant that I don't think much of Syndra's power budget is weighed into free roam Q/W.

Not that it wasn't strong.

LordGeovanniDec 5, 20171 votes

it isnt that much out of her power budget but considering that her power budget seems much bigger than a large majority of champions that isnt saying much. relative to other champions say Ivern its much more power considering he has little damage to speak of base or scaling and has to stop to cast everyone of his spells but e (on himself) I dont think there is a cast on allies but you have to cast on allies and there is dead time while you are waiting and when you can click again so that you dont cancel Darius the movement buffer is probably equal to the true damage and reset on darius ult though not the fear which is decently recent on him but she also has range and more damage. Leona syndras overall kit puts leona in the dust they cant be both balanced on the same power spectrum same for Sona Soraka Nidalee Orianna Taliyah Yorick Trundle Kassadin Diana Jax etc and lets be real Even through her w doesnt have cast time its her longest to cast spell in its travel time at half of its range. by time you see syndra casting e or r its already taken effect and e has already been decided whether it has hit you or not unless you have flash up (and your mouse in the right direction or place to which none of her balls cross your path) which is the only blink fast enough and that you dont need to be accurate with to dodge stuff but that isnt even a decision thats just a twitch reaction.

ShiznyteDec 4, 20173 votes

When sure Ults she does not have to stop. Her E has a .5 second animation its not long enough to really long enough to consider it a weakness, also it knocks enemies back so unless you have a blink chances are you won't get on her.

MrHaZeYoDec 4, 201713 votes

I'm pretty sure she has to stop for a fraction of a second on her ult and the .5 on her E is still .5 now isn't it?

ShiznyteDec 6, 20171 votes

Unleashed Power has a brief cast time before it activates, but Syndra does not have to remain in place while the spheres apply their damage. She can walk away as soon as the casting has completed, as the spheres only begin dealing their damage after the casting time. (From the Wiki)

You are right about the ult for sure.

As for the .5 second window on her E good luck if you are melee trying to pounce on her because you get knocked back, if you out range her you can do a bit better but it has a 700 unit range so only certain ADC's and High range mages can really do anything about it

MrHaZeYoDec 6, 20172 votes

Ya I knew that she could move after cast time on her ult lol.

Good work though detective.

DarkRoosterDec 4, 20173 votes

She literary stops to cast both of them, E and R, what the fuck are you talking about

MrHaZeYoDec 4, 20171 votes

That's what I was talking about? Lol.

DurzakaDec 4, 201713 votes

As mentioned, her E and R cannot be cast while moving.

And if her Q and W required her to stop, she would be nearly useless.

DunkinNoobsDec 4, 201711 votes

A ton. Being able to move and do damage at the same time is an absolutely enormous advantage in close fights, and while Syndra also does this, no champions abuse this ability more than Singed and AurelionSol .

DeusVultDec 4, 20174 votes

singed q is a toggle, and his e is melee range

sol damage is entirely from his passive, with his W expansion again being a toggle

next your gonna tell me that Karthus is a mobile damage dealer because he can move and deal damage with his E

DunkinNoobsDec 4, 20179 votes

{quoted}

next your gonna tell me that Karthus is a mobile damage dealer because he can move and deal damage with his E

Yes, actually. Karthus has a very strong lvl 2 all in against melee champs for precisely that reason.

Handy Sandy Dec 4, 20176 votes

next your gonna tell me that Karthus is a mobile damage dealer because he can move and deal damage with his E

It's different because unlike Syndra or Asol, Karthus's E isn't one of his main sources of damage.

SlythionDec 3, 20178 votes

A lot of her power and ability to pressure is actually found in her ability to move and deal damage at the same time. It's really quite a unique aspect in league that isn't utilized in a lot of champions, let alone their entire kit

DemainaNyxDec 4, 20177 votes

Honestly, I would love to have a power budget breakdown on every champion, just so the players can see what was designed as being strong compared to what the players think.

Like Ashe has a ton of power in her passive since it's a slow every auto, and we all sorta know she has power in her passive, but everyone knows her for her ult and W spam. Same with Syndra, everyone jokes about her outplay button in her ult, but her being able to move while casting Q is probably a ton of her power budget.

LùmenDec 4, 20176 votes

She has to stop for a second to cast her E and R

wildfox99Dec 4, 20174 votes

but Syndra has it on all 4 of her spells.

just on her Q and W,E and R need to be casted like a normal ability

An Undead bratDec 4, 20173 votes

This is important. There are champions gated by it, for example Zyra . All her abilities have significant cast times, because she offers two AoE CCs, burst and DPS (although none of those are very exceptional unless very fed). (She also pays for it with a complete lack of safety - who knows why...)

EternalFrostFireDec 4, 20173 votes

People are talking about how Syndra is much stronger because of this, but I don't think I have seen a single person talk about Orianna. That robot is a monster.

But seriously, I don't think it makes much of an impact. On Syndra, most of the time you will stay slightly out of range for your q so you always have to walk in slightly to cast it. This walking in and out of range is kinda like a mini-stun in itself. Same for Orianna's abilities, unless you walk into the ball (dumbass). For Syndra's W, I think that its cooldown is long enough for it not to be too strong but still impactful. And many people act like its a Yasuo tornado and just run out of range when you pick something up, because, just like Yasuo tornado, it's hard to tell how big it's hitbox is and where it goes. So it not having a cast time doesn't do anything for them, or you walk in and out of range, the same as you did with Q.

You could argue, that you don't have to walk in and out of range vs melees, but unlike mages who use your cast time to hit you with a skillshot while you are still, many melees have targetted abilities because, well that's just how it is okay?

You could also say, "But what do short ranged mages like Vladimir and Ryze do?" They normally scale hard so it doesn't matter if they lose lane by a bit because of these disadvantages or they have built in sustain to compensate for the free damage they will take alot of the time.

TL;DR

I think it's nice, feels more fluid, but doesn't help thaaat much. It's definitely a plus though.

LucasmanDec 3, 20172 votes

[deleted]

Kaladin DavarDec 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

what are you even trying to get at? they arent going to take it away its not something you can buff

Can you read?

Craft ZeppelinDec 4, 20172 votes

Try playing annie after you play syndra. It feels really painful to stop at every spell cast.

PoskeDec 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Psy Congroo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uGmYrIsZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-12-03T23:35:39.621+0000)

Not a complaint thread about Syndra, I'm actually curious because to me this seems like an extremely underrated feature for a mage. Certain other mages have this ability on one or two of their spells (e.g. W, E) but Syndra has it on all 4 of her spells.

Her E actually has a cast time

It is well known that syndra is a better velkoz. Aka why you dont see velkoz in mid (But since he stacks spellthief better he is good poke support)

it is almost certainly counted in her power budget

Velkoz would have a niche with his true damage if defense in league werent pathetic + on top of it voidstaff is borderline broken

This lack of cast times makes her deceptively mobile in situations where other mages would have to make a choice: either stand and fight, or run away. Syndra can do both at the same time, and I think that makes her feel a lot smoother to play than others of her class.

Yes true

How much does Riot value this ability to move while casting when it comes to assessing a champion's power? Have they ever thought to add this feature to other "immobile" mages that might need a slight modernization tweak? What are everyone's thoughts on this matter?

Riot biggest priority atm above all should be nerfing ADCS

Nothing else matters as long as they plague the game with their Op stats

AirKingNeoDec 4, 20171 votes

Technically none since most of her abilities are really strong.

Solidair3Dec 4, 20171 votes

E actually does have a cast time, and her Ult as well (but I think the one on her ult is very short? I'd have to loo into it). In any case, I think her Q and W can be cast while moving, and that's probably fair. She's very squishy for all the burst damage she has, and if she had to stop to Q and W, she wouldn't be worth much if anything.

Especially because her positioning when using her E is so important. She needs the freedom to Q or W in a certain place (definitely if W is on cooldown) to protect herself.

deadlychuckDec 5, 20171 votes

I actually wondered this since her release. Would love to see an answer.

E Man foreverDec 5, 20171 votes

She is more feared by ADCs than assassins

SB ArneemanDec 5, 20171 votes

E has a cast time. I think it's fair for Syndra to have this casting interaction, since she has literally 0 mobility. Most other mages have either some sort of mobility(Ori W, Viktor Q, Ziggs W, Azir E) or they have too long range to need it like Xerath.

By the way, Orianna doesn't have to stop to QWE either. In my opinion this lack of cast time has the biggest impact in high elo, where people are generally good at dodging skills and abuse enemy animation times to hit skills.