@Riot Tank Update and the impact on Taric

Skias·Feb 17, 2017·6 votes·1,285 views

Now that Wardens are (officially?) being affected by the Tank update, how heavily will Taric be touched upon? I know design has said they consider some of his kit is less impactful than they wished, will he get some small changes to improve this? Will he be seeing any changes at all? Will itemization be the only benefits he sees outside base stat increases (I believe this is the universal direction for tanks, more base stats and kit defense strength, defensive power drained from items a bit.).

Thanks in advance!

24 Comments

hhaavviikkFeb 17, 20174 votes

I think a change he needs is to his Q, it feels like absolutely garbage if you don't heal with 3 charges and affect 3/4 team mates

Stars ShaperFeb 17, 20172 votes

If he hadn't a double stun mechanic (which barely gets exploited in Solo Q) I don't think he'd ever see the battlefield, even his ultimate requires more coordination from team mates than the majority of the players here have.

Right now his heals are just a way to throw mana because their effectiveness is so low that it's not even worth levelling up, the only way I see to give them some value would be to add a buff to healed target which increases healing received depending on stacks used by Taric.

SkiasFeb 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u9uujN6A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-17T20:28:00.135+0000)

If he hadn't a double stun mechanic (which barely gets exploited in Solo Q) I don't think he'd ever see the battlefield, even his ultimate requires more coordination from team mates than the majority of the players here have.

Right now his heals are just a way to throw mana because their effectiveness is so low that it's not even worth levelling up, the only way I see to give them some value would be to add a buff to healed target which increases healing received depending on stacks used by Taric.

It's cost is extremely high for what it does, definitely.

Stars ShaperFeb 18, 20172 votes

Indeed, and waiting for 3 charges doesn't help at all.

I also think that he needs to be in control of what he does a bit more, I really like supporting and I really like the Paladin archetype (that's what I always played in games) but I really don't feel like Playing Taric because I feel worthless the moment my team doesn't align perfectly.

SkiasFeb 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u9uujN6A,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-18T00:37:10.562+0000)

Indeed, and waiting for 3 charges doesn't help at all.

I also think that he needs to be in control of what he does a bit more, I really like supporting and I really like the Paladin archetype (that's what I always played in games) but I really don't feel like Playing Taric because I feel worthless the moment my team doesn't align perfectly.

You have to spend mana to proc bravado to have a hope of getting two three star heals. That means he has to easily sink 250~ mana to get a 2nd heal out. He is so damn mana intense in the early game, you can't afford to level his Q for a good while. So it either has a low heal and isn't worth the mana unless you are bashing with bravado or its so costly you can only use it like twice. Catalyst mitigates it a bit but its upgrades are so crappy on Taric. His best upgrade to Cata is righteous glory, which sort of sucks. I wish Frozen heart was a catalyst upgrade. Shave some stats off it and give it the eternity passive. Or a new catalyst based armor item so Taric can at least feel good for upgrading the biggest gem in the shop. Its an absolute shame because Cata is such a great purchase on him, its basically core.

SkiasFeb 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u9uujN6A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-17T20:28:00.135+0000)

If he hadn't a double stun mechanic (which barely gets exploited in Solo Q) I don't think he'd ever see the battlefield, even his ultimate requires more coordination from team mates than the majority of the players here have.

Right now his heals are just a way to throw mana because their effectiveness is so low that it's not even worth levelling up, the only way I see to give them some value would be to add a buff to healed target which increases healing received depending on stacks used by Taric.

A part of that comes from how crazy easy it is to kite him. He's god awful slow. Healing 5 people is hard when you have to chase your own team.

Stars ShaperFeb 21, 20172 votes

Indeed, Taric needs some self reliance.

I lost the count of how many times I Ult 3+ ppl and they just wonder around engaging only at the end of the ult or how many times I have to run around in order to heal ppl.

SkiasFeb 21, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u9uujN6A,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-02-21T17:23:21.508+0000)

Indeed, Taric needs some self reliance.

I lost the count of how many times I Ult 3+ ppl and they just wonder around engaging only at the end of the ult or how many times I have to run around in order to heal ppl.

Yeah, I agree here. Catalyst's eternity passive helps a lot with this, but I do wish he would get some power shifted out of his ult and into his kit. I dunno.

SkiasFeb 17, 20171 votes

I've asked for a mana return mechanic on his Bravado against champions which Riot had replied to me that it had been tried. I seriously think they should reconsider this, or some other buff to his efficiency.

SkiasFeb 18, 20171 votes

I truly wish we could get an extended Riot conversation about Taric going especially with Wardens getting updated. I feel like even since his awesome rework, his pick rate is so low, he never gets attention.

GiveMeUrMilkFeb 21, 20171 votes

The tank update is covering vanguards not wardens so Taric won't be touched.

SkiasFeb 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The tank update is covering vanguards not wardens so Taric won't be touched.

They just recently said Wardens would be getting a minor pass, likely base stats.

GiveMeUrMilkFeb 22, 20173 votes

Ah, I missed that then, my bad. But even so, base stats aren't the issue with Taric's kit. It's his R and E. All of his power is budgeted to team wide invulnerability and a multi target line stun with both being able to be cast from yourself and another person.

If his base stats get a buff that would be very nice, but honestly, his Q would still be terribly weak. I highly doubt they would do any large power shifting in his kit considering they said they were keeping this update a bit more limited iirc.

SkiasFeb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ah, I missed that then, my bad. But even so, base stats aren't the issue with Taric's kit. It's his R and E. All of his power is budgeted to team wide invulnerability and a multi target line stun with both being able to be cast from yourself and another person.

If his base stats get a buff that would be very nice, but honestly, his Q would still be terribly weak. I highly doubt they would do any large power shifting in his kit considering they said they were keeping this update a bit more limited iirc.

If they reduce the effectiveness of tank items, Taric and Braum would basically require buffs. There is no way they will be able to hang in there with their current kits and weaker items.

GiveMeUrMilkFeb 23, 20171 votes

Buffs to their base stats, yes. I'm saying that they are not very likely to have anything touched but numbers, and even then, I doubt it would be numbers anywhere outside of base stats and making those better. They would be able to hang in there with weaker items with the same kits, we also don't know how the items are being changed yet, so it may not hurt them as badly as you would think.

SkiasFeb 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Buffs to their base stats, yes. I'm saying that they are not very likely to have anything touched but numbers, and even then, I doubt it would be numbers anywhere outside of base stats and making those better. They would be able to hang in there with weaker items with the same kits, we also don't know how the items are being changed yet, so it may not hurt them as badly as you would think.

They don't get picked now because they can't hang in there against Malzahar and Zyra, what makes you think less defense is going to improve their lot?

BastionKrossFeb 23, 20171 votes

Everyone's favorite gem knight is suffering for one simple reason: He's a support with the power curve of a solo laner.

Normally, supports have to be strong early game to do their support things. They then fall off and become primarily utility, bringing heals and shields and hard CC.

Taric is the complete opposite. Early game is when he is weakest, since he drains mana like there's no tomorrow and has slow defensive scalings on a lot of his abilities. Late game, Taric is a wall made of diamond and is three times as deadly. The man is a radiant raid boss.

Stars ShaperFeb 23, 20171 votes

I find myself winning lane a lot with him even with unfavorable opponents (God I hate Brand/Malzahar supps). Bu that mostly because I can still line up my stun myself and still create kill opportunities.

Once lanes brake up (and even during ganks and tower dives) here is where I start losing all I and my ADC have built. Team mates just don't take advantage of your shiled and stun nor your Ult. I've been in temafights where I had 4 team mates unvulnerable just wondering around losing a perfect initiation on 2 mispostioned carries just to dive 2 seconds after it expired costing us the fight.

Taric problem is being too much dependant on others not fcking up rather then setting up a good play himself.

BastionKrossFeb 23, 20171 votes

Taric problem is being too much dependant on others not fcking up rather then setting up a good play himself.

That's a problem most supports have. They lack the agency and control over the game that other roles have. This is an issue with the role rather than something that applies exclusively to Taric.

Hell, half the reason why supports like Vel, Brand, Malz, and Zyra are so popular is that they can build damage and carry themselves rather than hope that their teammates carry for them. Taric can do this too, but he takes much longer to get to that point.

Stars ShaperFeb 23, 20172 votes

But Taric has it even harder: Sona, Soraka, Nami, Braum and Janna all have heavy CC or powerful moves that require them to make use of those and save/make the play while Taric has to choose that plus anticipate it enough for the delay and then hope that his team mates make use of it.

BastionKrossFeb 24, 20172 votes

Relying on your teammates to make good use of your abilities is every supports problem. If I land a godly ult as Sona, and no one follows up, that's a waste of a long CD and my only hard CC. If I ult as Soraka to save someone's life and they go back in and die, that's a horrible feeling. I can blow everything I have to protect someone as Janna, and watch them still perish through no fault of my own. That's frustrating as hell.

Taric actually has it better, since in the late game he becomes a carry himself. If the person you're trying to protect isn't making good use of your ult and just refuses to maneuver to use your stun, then fuck them. Ult yourself, line your own stun up, and beat down the enemy carries on your own. Taric becomes a godly duelist that can stand toe to toe with champs like Trynd, Jax, and Fiora, and he's got no problem beating down squishies and tanks alike with his mixed damage and defensive scalings. He's a beast at that level, even with support tank items and a sightstone.

SkiasFeb 23, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Everyone's favorite gem knight is suffering for one simple reason: He's a support with the power curve of a solo laner.

Normally, supports have to be strong early game to do their support things. They then fall off and become primarily utility, bringing heals and shields and hard CC.

Taric is the complete opposite. Early game is when he is weakest, since he drains mana like there's no tomorrow and has slow defensive scalings on a lot of his abilities. Late game, Taric is a wall made of diamond and is three times as deadly. The man is a radiant raid boss.

This right here. I mean, if you play him Top, its even more apparent. I've absolutely shut out some opponents top, like GP, Riven, Illaoi, Zed, Yorick and Irelia. Playing him bot, its a totally different situation. He doesn't have the throughput to hang in there against two opponents. His playstyle of being a fighter support gets watered down bot lane because you can't get poked more than one or twice before you are OOM. Also, he's pretty damn item dependent for a support.

Getting Riot to talk about Taric is like pulling teeth. Honestly, he's so niche, I don't feel like he will get directly talked about even with a tank item update on the horizon. I actually wouldn't mind if he was tuned to be a Top lane support that lanes and then scales out to be a support team fighter mid/late.

Feels sort of bad when I can get Riot to respond about stupid stuff but getting an honest conversation about Taric seems impossible. Frustrating.

BastionKrossFeb 24, 20172 votes

I've been lobbying Riot to balance Taric around top lane as well. It doesn't have to be huge changes, just small things that benefit his kit when he's by himself like discounted mana costs when he's not linked with someone.

Ideally, Riot will acknowledge him as the Ivern of top lane. Someone you pick when you want to be more supporty, but also don't want to go bot lane.

SkiasFeb 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I've been lobbying Riot to balance Taric around top lane as well. It doesn't have to be huge changes, just small things that benefit his kit when he's by himself like discounted mana costs when he's not linked with someone.

Ideally, Riot will acknowledge him as the Ivern of top lane. Someone you pick when you want to be more supporty, but also don't want to go bot lane.

You're my bro. This is exactly what he should be. Just give him a solo lane balance pass and put him top, make his mana costs scale up a bit when linked. He would be unique in the fact that he's a Support Fighter. A Laner that transitions into support play later in the game. That's basically how I've been playing him through Gold. Playing him Bot, he's too unreliable and short range. Jungle is pretty ok. His top is underrated with how good it is.