Title.
Edit: it feels stupid to have to put this but Win Rating has nothing to do with irritating mechanics. Nothing in this thread has any bearing on Kled's value in LCS, his ability to dominate or get dumpster Dan'd in soloQ or whatever.
Literally just talking about how terrible the remount mechanic was implemented.
BakedLotion25 voteswat do u mean u dont love a champion randomly gaining 3k hp for attacking for 3 seconds?
SwiftKitten8820 voteswhat... you don't think having 300 more base hp than the previous highest champ in the game with the highest HP scaling of any champ is balanced?
Narasimha5 votesOnly Skaarl has the HP. Kled doesn't even break 2k.
Skias6 votesOnly Skaarl has the HP. Kled doesn't even break 2k.
Like it matters which one has it.
SpecterVonBaren15 votesIt really does.
doombotMECHA2 voteslook, the point is, he comes back in the midgame with 3k+ before investment.
HellsTrueKing9 votesThis is my biggest problem with Kled at the moment...he is completely unbalanced within himself. Kled can be super strong mounted but can also be ridiculously useless unmounted. I've said it multiple times now, but I'll say it again, I wanted him to be more like Gnar with two separate kits.
Forcing him to lose 2 abilities, movement speed, and damage while unmounted makes it extremely difficult to balance him because you've taken away so much already. If you don't agree that he's weak unmounted, I'm sure it's because he can instantly gain ~40% of his health, which I don't agree with. And that's the thing, one of his biggest problems is built into his identity.
So what do you do? Do you severely reduce his passive and make it reasonable? Then you risk taking away what made him unique. But why make him so unique in the first place if the tool you used to do so males him "unhealthy"?
Skias4 votesThis is my biggest problem with Kled at the moment...he is completely unbalanced within himself. Kled can be super strong mounted but can also be ridiculously useless unmounted. I've said it multiple times now, but I'll say it again, I wanted him to be more like Gnar with two separate kits.
Forcing him to lose 2 abilities, movement speed, and damage while unmounted makes it extremely difficult to balance him because you've taken away so much already. If you don't agree that he's weak unmounted, I'm sure it's because he can instantly gain ~40% of his health, which I don't agree with. And that's the thing, one of his biggest problems is built into his identity.
So what do you do? Do you severely reduce his passive and make it reasonable? Then you risk taking away what made him unique. But why make him so unique in the first place if the tool you used to do so males him "unhealthy"?
This right here. It's not that he's OP in any way. It's that he's set up poorly within his own kit. He's either frustrating or crap (see Illaoi). They need to take away his invul frames and make turret blast him even if he gets dismounted. That would go a long way.
Zerenza7 votesHis current winrate in both jungle and top (his main roles) is bellow 45%. He will not get nerfed, he's not broken, sure most people just don't know how to play him but his winrate is downright awful.
Skias14 votesHis current winrate in both jungle and top (his main roles) is bellow 45%. He will not get nerfed, he's not broken, sure most people just don't know how to play him but his winrate is downright awful.
Yeah, that's not totally going to climb like mad when people learn you can abuse his diving ability because of skaarl resets and bruiser unkillable brick builds.
Zerenza1 votesHigh ELO player's already know that but even in platinum and above it's well bellow 45%. There is even a combo to make your Q hit no matter what, yet, he's not broken.
Skias14 votesHigh ELO player's already know that but even in platinum and above it's well bellow 45%. There is even a combo to make your Q hit no matter what, yet, he's not broken.
Its a bit early to be stating winrates as an argument against some really shitty mechanics. Dropping tower aggro on dismount, massive Hp returns for doing fuck all, invincibility frames? All these should be looked at. Buff him after if you have to, but I'm not talking about his win rate. I'm talking about how Shitty they are to deal with.
Zerenza6 votesI'v already talked about how he shouldn't be able to drop aggro by mounting or dismounting (or become invulnerable) on another thread and i won't go into. I just don't think he's broken, he will need some adjustments of course but by no means is he broken.
People thought illaoi was broken but for 5 months she sat at 48% winrate.
Skias8 votesI'v already talked about how he shouldn't be able to drop aggro by mounting or dismounting (or become invulnerable) on another thread and i won't go into. I just don't think he's broken, he will need some adjustments of course but by no means is he broken.
People thought illaoi was broken but for 5 months she sat at 48% winrate.
Illaoi has a suffocating unhealthy lane against melees and is absolute crap after the fact. She's not exactly a pillar of champion health, being an awful champ design.
LA Losty15 votesTaliyahs winrate was at like 36-38% in the beginning, and she is very strong with only minor chanrces and is now sitting at a winrate above 50% i believe. I think he is fine and once people start learning him i think he is going to be quite strong. I do find it slightly too strong how quickly you can get your mount back, and you can go full ad and still have 3k+ hp.
Zerenza8 votesYes but she was actually underpowered, she received small tweaks and buff that balanced her out(then a nerf to her ultimate). And while yes he does regain his HP quickly, it's important to note that once he dismounts he will always be bellow 2k HP(there is a limit to how muich HP Kled can have, skaarl recieves all of kled HP from itemizing, kled does not). Making him an easy target for any assassin, the only fast way to get his stacks back is by fighting other champions, killing minions and monster's won't do it near as fast as another champion will. He's basically weak to poke and burst, but if your a garen or something and can't do enough damage to him, he'll remount in about 4 auto's and a Q.
It's also important to note that Skaarl has no base health regen. Kled does, but skaarl doesn't, which means if you keep poking him, he will eventually dissmount.
LA Losty2 votesI didnt know that he had a health cap, thats probably for the better though. I think its a little too much that he receives enough passive stacks after like a full combo and considering that skaarl gets most of the hp, he will heal even more so in that since its actually good for Kled. Also Kled already has a tone of hp without building any tankyness.
Junkο3 votesTaliyah was hotfixed.
CaptnJakSparrow2 votesTaliyahs winrate was at like 36-38% in the beginning, and she is very strong with only minor chanrces and is now sitting at a winrate above 50% i believe. I think he is fine and once people start learning him i think he is going to be quite strong. I do find it slightly too strong how quickly you can get your mount back, and you can go full ad and still have 3k+ hp.
Taliyah also got buffed 4 times before she was even relevant. So.
HellsTrueKing7 votesI don't really understand why they made him so weak unmounted but made him super strong mounted; however, I think with a couple of changes he could be way better.
Move the 80% AD from unmounted to mounted. That way, Kled gets a ton of health back but does 20% less damage (you can even mess with the ratio if you want).
Increase his movement speed while unmounted. The increase doesn't have to be a lot, just enough so that he's not painfully slow. You can also keep his movement speed boost while moving toward enemy champs ( I love this running animation).
These are just examples of what I think would make a huge difference. The other things Riot could do, but I highly doubt, is giving him an E while unmounted.
Only Play Darius6 votesWay I see it, they can hit the HP return, slow down the time it takes for him to get back his mount, or decrease his base health. I think slowing down the time it takes for him to get back Skaarl is better
SpecterVonBaren1 votesIt's already really slow if you don't build an attack speed item as your first item (And even then I take AS marks and quints) and Skaarl doesn't come back with full HP if he remounts.
Only Play Darius8 votesI know that Skaarl doesn't come back with full HP, but the heal scales up throughout the game and even in laning phase a 50% HP instant heal with an invulnerability frame can be obnoxious to deal with
SpecterVonBaren2 votesAnd if he's managed to survive long enough to get Karl back then he deserves it since its so easy to nuke him down once he's off Skaarl.
Only Play Darius3 votesIt really isn't hard for him to build up his courage bar just by attacking minions along with his gun which conveniently knocks him back to safety. Maybe if the courage depleted over time but it doesn't.
SpecterVonBaren2 votes...... No it really IS hard for him to build it up on minions. Long range champs bully him easy and short range champs have the gapclosers and early damage to just all in him if he's not careful. If it's a late game scaling champ then they might leave him alone to build up courage again but anyone that's aggressive early will punch his teeth in.
Edit: Wait did you really think that he gets courage just for attacking minions? It thought you just misstyped and mean last hitting, did you even READ what his kit does?
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesKled only gets Courage KILLING minions, 4 courage per minion. His gun only works on Champions to get back courage. That self knock back doesn't mean jack squat running away, considering most top laners have 330-335 MS, meaning they'll easily catch up.
Not to mention Kled most likely has his W on Cd from the initial attack, while also only doing 80% AD on Autos while dismounted. His Gun can give a max of 50 courage if he lands every bullet in both shots, which requires him to be literally in your face, which means his health bar is just as accessible as yours.
Final thing, if you're allowing him to kill 25 minions to bring back Skarrl, while he sits there with his low max health limit, you can easily outheal him with a potion or two then go back in.
Skias1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mg0qFKbA,comment-id=000a00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-16T04:31:16.706+0000)
Kled only gets Courage KILLING minions, 4 courage per minion. His gun only works on Champions to get back courage. That self knock back doesn't mean jack squat running away, considering most top laners have 330-335 MS, meaning they'll easily catch up.
Not to mention Kled most likely has his W on Cd from the initial attack, while also only doing 80% AD on Autos while dismounted. His Gun can give a max of 50 courage if he lands every bullet in both shots, which requires him to be literally in your face, which means his health bar is just as accessible as yours.
Final thing, if you're allowing him to kill 25 minions to bring back Skarrl, while he sits there with his low max health limit, you can easily outheal him with a potion or two then go back in.
He gets courage back using his stab as well. Those 4 strikes go off fast.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesBut if you disengage, force him to play passive, you can force him to waste his W passive on minions.
Skias1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mg0qFKbA,comment-id=000a00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-16T04:31:16.706+0000)
Kled only gets Courage KILLING minions, 4 courage per minion. His gun only works on Champions to get back courage. That self knock back doesn't mean jack squat running away, considering most top laners have 330-335 MS, meaning they'll easily catch up.
Not to mention Kled most likely has his W on Cd from the initial attack, while also only doing 80% AD on Autos while dismounted. His Gun can give a max of 50 courage if he lands every bullet in both shots, which requires him to be literally in your face, which means his health bar is just as accessible as yours.
Final thing, if you're allowing him to kill 25 minions to bring back Skarrl, while he sits there with his low max health limit, you can easily outheal him with a potion or two then go back in.
2 potions is 300hp. Skaarl is easily 700 to 900hp.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesKled isn't going to get back Skarrl by killing minions, not fast that is. If you back off, heal up, you can go back in with more HP than Kled does. since he has a cap to his max health while dismounted.
Astôlfo3 votesOr you could learn more about him and stop whining?
Skias20 votesOr you could learn more about him and stop whining?
Nep, I wish I had a nickle for every time I've had to tell you to fuck off in my threads. Go back to your bridge.
Astôlfo4 votesThen maybe you should stop making QQ threads just because you don't know how to play against a champion? But nice insults lmfao.
Skias16 votesThen maybe you should stop making QQ threads just because you don't know how to play against a champion? But nice insults lmfao.
Add something constructive concerning the subject, neckbeard.
redfeenix3 votesI don't agree with this thread but you can have an upvote for this comment
Astôlfo1 votesThe irony is overwhelming
Skias3 votesThe irony is overwhelming
The only thing overwhelming here is length of your neckbeard. Go back to your goblin hole.
Astôlfo1 votesYour immaturity and petty insults are absolutely hilarious. I pity how sad your existence must be for you to keep acting like this.
CeexSett2 votesI also pity your routine of daily logging in the boards to live a saltful asshole-y useless coment on every thread of relevance.
Astôlfo1 votesirony also just being flat out incorrect
CeexSett2 votesIf you want to keep downvoting me because I'm replying to you like a 9 year old who just got told he is dumb and replies with "y-you too!", it's your decision.
I'm just having a laugh, and surely Skias is as well.
Astôlfo1 votesonce again irony
and the hilarious part is you think I seem to care what something like you or Skias thinks your opinion on me is irrelevant, just like your opinion on anything else is
Skias1 votesIf you want to keep downvoting me because I'm replying to you like a 9 year old who just got told he is dumb and replies with "y-you too!", it's your decision.
I'm just having a laugh, and surely Skias is as well.
I always laugh at Nep2ool.