Garen is a bit strong now... Math inside

Irelia Bot··5 votes·1,262 views

I'll use his E as an example showing base damge only, base damage single target and the nwith bonus damage added in at realistic ammounts given the levels and a reastic 2 semi damage item build max rank for those really long games.

Using only base damage and not even counting the likely Black cleaver that a garen might have mid game it is as follows

Level 1 rank 1 skill: (20 +.345*58)5 = 200 Level 4 rank 2 skill: (25 +.35368)6 = 292 Level 7 rank 3 skill: (30 + .36080)7 = 411.6 Level 10 rank 5 skill: (40 + .37593)8 = 599 Level 13 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375107)9 = 721.1 Level 16 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375123)*10 = 861

REMEMBER THIS IS BASE DAMAGE AND AOE NOT EVEN WITH RUNES OR MASTERIES.

Now if it is single target damage all of it is boosted by 33.3% so

Level 1 rank 1 skill: (20 +.345*58)*5 = 200 1.333 = 266.6 Level 4 rank 2 skill: (25 +.35368)*6 = 292 1.333 = 389 Level 7 rank 3 skill: (30 + .36080)*7 = 411.6 1.333 = 548.7 Level 10 rank 5 skill: (40 + .37593)*8 = 599 1.333 = 798.5 Level 13 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375107)*9 = 721.1 1.333 = 961.2 Level 16 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375123)*10 = 861 *1.333 = 1,147.7

Now if you add in some realistic bonus AD in to the equation he suddenly becomes even more of a headach.

Level 1 rank 1 skill: (20 +.345*73)*5 = 225.9 1.33 = 300 Level 4 rank 2 skill: (25 +.35390)*6 = 340.6 1.33 = 453 Level 7 rank 3 skill: (30 + .360120)*7 = 512.4 1.33 = 681.9 Level 10 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375150)*8 = 770 1.33 = 1,024.1 Level 13 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375180)9 = 967.5 * 1.33 = 1,289.7 Level 16 rank 5 skill: (40 + .375210)*10 = 1,187.5 *1.333 =1,582.9

And this is assuming he only gets a max of about 80 bonus damage.

at level 18 with 120 bonus damage he does (40+ 254*.375)* 10 = 1,352.5 (aoe) *1.33 =1,802.9 (single target)

Yes this is a 9 second cooldown at base ability that has damage that is comparable to that of a Kat ult. While only having to build 2 semi damage items (black cleaver and Titanic Hydra + runes and masteries) The rest of the items can be tank. And yes this does give him armor reduction to any enemies who get to close.

Riot was it intended for Garen to be able to easily dominate other melee in lane while also having a 30% damage reduction, a slow removal with a speed boost on a fairly short cooldown, good sustain and an execution ability that has 400 range while doing true damage to the enemies top carry with a high base damage (175/350/525)+ 40% missing health?

He just seems to have way to high of numbers currently.

6 Comments

GloriousKaiser3 votes

I think it's justified. He still struggles to catch well protected champions. He is supposed to be good at punishing people. His spin should advocate for that. Getting silenced then spun on can and will usually be due to a massive mistake IE: Bush whacking.

He still gets kited out in the open. He will still fall under heavy pressure. Basically he gets more damage off, and is a bit more useful in actually being a threat now. Garen loves getting initiated on, especially when it's a squishy.

Besides this damage has to be applied over 3 seconds. Alone? He can get at least half of that off, before you can actually react. Even earlier if he's peeled off of you. It's all in the team game. Alistar Thresh Janna are here for a reason.

Don't expect Ashe Caitlyn Varus to get rid of him just because they're ranged.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's justified. He still struggles to catch well protected champions. He is supposed to be good at punishing people. His spin should advocate for that. Getting silenced then spun on can and will usually be due to a massive mistake IE: Bush whacking.

He still gets kited out in the open. He will still fall under heavy pressure. Basically he gets more damage off, and is a bit more useful in actually being a threat now. Garen loves getting initiated on, especially when it's a squishy.

Besides this damage has to be applied over 3 seconds. Alone? He can get at least half of that off, before you can actually react. Even earlier if he's peeled off of you. It's all in the team game. Alistar Thresh Janna are here for a reason.

Don't expect Ashe Caitlyn Varus to get rid of him just because they're ranged.

The main issue is other melee champs.

Hoi Im Temmo2 votes

I don't know. After playing him a bit since the changes, it consistently feels like I am doing less damage. I will full spin a squishy target, and do nearly nothing.

Erijian2 votes

I don't think the stats on paper determine whether he's balanced or not due to how his kit works in-game. Yeah, he has the potential to do massive damage, but how often (against competent players) will he achieve that damage?

Though he's always been a pubstomper against players who don't know what they're doing and he's probably an even bigger one now. If losing some late-game E damage gets some of his other nerfs reverted I'd probably accept them as he has more than enough damage to spare now. Things like getting some Silence duration back, or scaling Tenacity on Courage's Active.

Blitzidious1 votes

Yeah, on paper, that E is... Jesus. I don't have words. But realistically, unless you are VERY low account level, and playing with people who don't understand the concept of grouping, than you won't be pulling off that damage all that often. Occasionally you will, whither it be from good placement on your part, a catch out on a straggler, poor positioning from the enemy team, or just plain luck that you managed to kill off that one minion that was stopping you from dealing the strong damage. Also, I'd like to point out, that you can only get this damage off, if you actually maintained the spin on a single target for the whole duration of his E. Because, those large numbers, aren't per tick, those are maximum output. What was sacrificed for this damage, was the tenacity on his W, and a duration cut from his speed boost on Q. All things he needs to get into someones face, and stay in someones face. Anything can sound Overpowered on paper, but in practice, is where you get results.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

on paper it looks stong.

realistically he lost 1 second of his silence, his tenacity and 1 second of his movement speed bonus to get there. which makes him a lot more kitable, and unlikely to hit someone with the full spin.

unless he doesnt get peeled at all, or his target doesnt outrun him, he deals about 2/3 of that damage usually.

i also want to note, that 1v1ed a warwick in one of my recent games. and even though i won, due to the large advantage i built up before, it was close. he was sitting in my spin autoing me the entire time without other enemy units around.

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