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49% winrate, 30% winrate in pro, why are you hard nerfing jayce instead of fixing the issues?

Hammermancer··5 votes·2,379 views

in two years jayce has received... a few bug fixes... and nerfs, nerfs, nerfs.

Any compensation buff has always been to make him more spammy and have too much synergy with lethality:

He has lost reasonable access to tons of bruiser items due to them being restricted to melee only (making the passives not work when he goes ranged), or just changes in scaling, his damage has been forced into the khan build (ghostblade as core)

he lost triforce years ago

can't stack tear effectively due to game changes making the matches end much faster

Oh yeah, and he becomes virtually useless after 25ish minutes.

What's the point of having champions with really mechanically complex kits and then nerfing their numbers to force them to do moronic shit instead of micro heavy dueling? wouldn't expanding that mindset across the board be completely in line with league of legends as a competitive game?

Jayce hasn't received compensation buffs in a while, and you keep forcing him to be squishier, to build more lethality, til eventually he's going to be nothing more than AD nidalee... NOONE EVEN LIKES NIDALEE ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU FUCKING RAPED HER INTO THE GROUND WITH YOUR INEPT BULLSHIT SO STOP TRYING TO DO THE SAME SHIT TO JAYCE

STOP GUTTING GOOD CHAMPS TO PUT MORE EMPHASIS ON 1SHOT CHEESE. Fucking christ, I haven't built lethality in two years out of protest.. but it has been a fool's errand to try to fight the tides of riot's shit balance team that when we were so close to a good fucking meta, you g utted the good champs, and you started reintroducing the concept of afk tanking and janna shields instead of learning complex mechanics as part of the competition

I have always maintained a positive winrate with this champ, I've adapted, time and time again, as bruiser jayce gets fucked in the ass every fucking time in favor of some korean swill build that takes about as much skill to execute as pressing R on garen

Jayce could be an amazing champ if he had more bruiser overtones, such as a prolonged combat focus and less 'lmfao 1shot u under inner mid from raptors"

The dark harvest bullshit needs to stop, Jayce needs a proper look because he's a prime example of a champion who takes a long time to fully master, but needs almost none of that mastery because of BAD ITEM AND RUNE BALANCE. Like riven, like azir was a few years back, you're going to 'fix' jayce by effectively removing all versatility and interesting ways to play him in favor of a forced central build that takes so many aspects out of the kit and removes the interesting elements of gameplay. It's the reverse warwick treatment.

.8

To the Skies! To the Skies!
    Bug Fix: Range/cast indicator now appears correctly. 
Thundering Blow Thundering Blow
    Bug Fix: Range/cast indicator now appears correctly.

V9.6

Stats
    Base health reduced to 560 from 576.
    Health growth reduced to 90 from 95.
    Base health regeneration reduced to 6 from 7.5.
    Health regeneration growth reduced to 0.6 from 0.8. 
Lightning Field Lightning Field
    New Effect: Now triggers effects that are triggered by DoT AoE abilities.

V9.2

General
    Bug Fix: Ranged basic attack animation has been fixed to synchronize with the attack's actual wind-up and launch.

V9.1

Acceleration Gate Acceleration Gate
    New Effect: If Jayce casts Acceleration Gate during Shock Blast Shock Blast's cast time, he'll now ignore movement commands until both abilities have been cast.

V8.24

General
    Bug Fix: Fixed a bug causing the audio on his basic attacks to sometimes be missing.

V8.3

Stats
    Base health regeneration increased to 7.5 from 7.344.

V8.2

To the Skies! To the Skies!
    New Effect: Now draws nearby minion aggro when targeting an enemy champion. 
Thundering Blow Thundering Blow
    New Effect: Now draws nearby minion aggro when targeting an enemy champion.
    Bug Fix: No longer disables Flash Flash and Hexflash Hexflash when used on a champion with Hextech Flashtraption rune Hextech Flashtraption shortly after they have flashed.

V7.24b

Shock Blast Shock Blast
    Base damage reduced to 70 / 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 / 320 from 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 / 330. 
Thundering Blow Thundering Blow
    Cooldown increased to 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds from 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10.

12 Comments

Sir Saltarin7 votes

Jayce could be an amazing champ if he had more bruiser overtones, such as a prolonged combat focus and less 'lmfao 1shot u under inner mid from raptors"

Agree

Hammermancer1 votes

I actually have a theory that he could be quite functionally fun and good if they allow him to utilize both ranged and melee passives, with enough number crunching obviously, to encourage some sort of weird hybrid i temization build.. maybe making him scale more with HP and Crit but in a non traditional way... like off the top of my head and in no way saying this is how to do it but

as an idea Ranged form could sort of pyke passive his bonus HP into AD and melee form could turn his crit into defenses (To a cap obviously) and make his W and maybe his E actually scale more on his HP, then balance it all out by replacing his mana system with some sort of double resource balance system like they have in d3 demon hunters, in which when he uses one resoturce it could grow the other and vise versa

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

takes about as much skill to execute as pressing R on garen

this is funny, because garens execute is probably the most difficult to gage properly out of all those abilities.

i dare you to do the math on where the execute threshold of the ability is against a non villain target. i did it and it isnt trivial.

Hammermancer1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u1MuOZcq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:20:29.018+0000)

this is funny, because garens execute is probably the most difficult to gage properly out of all those abilities.

i dare you to do the math on where the execute threshold of the ability is against a non villain target. i did it and it isnt trivial.

Uhh roughly it's subtract the percentage of DR their MR provides from the execute percetentage damage to get the true result, but guestimating is usually fine because you usually save the R for the enemy carry who is the villain anyways and as garen you're able to 1v1 like 90% of the roster with a gold lead and some tenactity/MS boosts without your ult due to insane levels of scaling with all things either AD or tank... and if you don't get the kill you're still unlikely to die because you're fast as fuck and can run away, and heal up.

edit I play and love garen which is why I used him as an example. Garen is at the end of the day a meme champ who is offensively low ceiling and low floor, but also has so many drawbacks at high elo that they consider that to be balanced instead of saying "We should try to make this champion accessible for noobs and also viable for otping at high levels of play"... which is how all champs in the end are supposed to be but then riot defaults to "now it's time to gut an entire class and overbuff another class so that people can't actually fight them properly unless they pick another overbuffed champion or a direct counter" which isn't skillful in my honest opinion considering pick order is a thing

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

I don't remember the exact values on his R, but it's not really that hard since you almost never need to be exact. MR on someone who didn't buy any will reduce the damage by ~33%, which, given Garen's R dealing %missingHP, means you need them about 20% lower than you'd need the villain.

You rarely ever need to be exact with any number in League. Not sure why you'd think that you need to do the exact amount of damage needed with Garen's R.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

I don't remember the exact values on his R, but it's not really that hard since you almost never need to be exact. MR on someone who didn't buy any will reduce the damage by ~33%, which, given Garen's R dealing %missingHP, means you need them about 20% lower than you'd need the villain.

youre still playing a guessing game in most situations where the other champions have certainty.

its more difficult to estimate the execute threshold on garens ult, than on Chogath Pyke Urgot r (which will automatically pull the victim in when you reach the threshold) and even Darius r, which may be the second most difficult to work with, but is still a flat amount of true damage. you could just memorize the damage in advance of a fight, since it doesnt change with the targets stats.

You rarely ever need to be exact with any number in League. Not sure why you'd think that you need to do the exact amount of damage needed with Garen's R.

efficiency.

a flat damage execute like Pyke that even ignores shields is the easiest to use to maximum effect on a low health target.

you dont want to garen ult a target when its not in execute range yet and have it get away, and you dont want to ult it too late. not only would you be wasting damage, but also give the target extra time to react or escape.

gaging the execute threshold within a certain % of your opponents health is actually quite important on the champion and can take years to master. after a few years of practise you can get almost pinpoint accuracy on the enemies health bar.

even against the villain, you want to time your ult in a way, where it exactly hits as soon as the threshold is hit. this means even in this case you often want to know in advance when the ult is going to kill and combo it with a grasp empowered auto attack that is canceled by the ult.

the audio cue is a warning for your opponent too, so you want auto + r to instagib your target just the moment before it goes off.

Skeletons Grave3 votes

Transforming champions have always been balance nightmares. Cant balance a character with 6 abilities, both melee and ranged forms and 2 passives when everyone else has 3 abilities, 1-2 passives and an ult.

Hammermancer1 votes

The fuck? At least Half the fucking 4oster has cooldowns so low that the jump from 4 abilities to 6 abilities is meaningless because they always have something off cd

The rest all have at least two of the following:auto attack passives, giant shields, self heals, and game changing ults

Transforming champs dont have ultimates, ask spear of shojin or ultimate hunter

Go read how jayce melee w works, or his ranged e.

He has low mobility for his class, thats ok, but his mobility is a movespeed buff and a targetted jump that can still be dodged even though it's targetted.

Nidalee mains now transition to support on third item (runic into lichbane then athenes and ardent)

Elise has been almost completely invisible for years popping up for like half a patch at a time and then getting outclassed

When prebuff vi does better than you at everything, including towerdiving and assassination, then you know your champ needs help.

Gnar isnt a transformation champ because his cds are all shared and his transformation isnt a toggle,

Shyvanna is the most depressed champ in the game

Quinn transform was removed from the game

Tell me something, how much value does jayce w active add to a fight? Its less damage than sunfire, scales off ap, and does magic.

His ranged e does increase damage of his q, but that further restricts his decisionmaking and forces him to put half of his damage output into 1 skillshot landing.. yeah its a damned good skillshot but it effectively takes up two ability slots, your mobility spell and when in ranged form you lose mr and armor.

Plus using that qe combo puts you out about 200 mana.

Your aa range is low, again it's fine, but your as growth is also low.

In melee form his q shouldnt be casted after youve caught up, his w is just a way to arduously regain mana, and his e is a disengage.

So actually his kit is quite restrictive, and the mastery of jayce is in learned when and how to use these, what walls you can hop, vision tricks, his 2 resets, use of passive, dozens of combos, and mana regulation on a level ive only seen outclassedd by taric (who even with his old double tear iceborn frozenheartbuild still can run out of mana.....sorry mages but its true)

Tell me then, how is he broken when evedy single part of his kit had both direct and abstract costs that are rediculously high compared to say.. lux or ezreal, or any of the actual mainstay champs who thrived in every meta from their release and will continue to until the game ends?

Hayaishi22 votes

Riot doesn't fix stuff. They just put a bandaid over everything.

Saevum1 votes

That explains amumu.

The thigh guy1 votes

Because the hashinshins cry about him.

Ragnaveil1 votes

Yeah, I remember a time where Jayce could play like a bruiser and not hard harass in ranged like he can now. Items, runes, you name it. People are calling foul on Aatrox's rework when I honestly can point out the heal amp on his ult affecting all healing received as an issue.

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