I hate it when my support doesn't build sightstone, but I hate it that they have to build it

Toastersaot··88 votes·4,603 views

item 2049 Is the item every support MUST buy. I get frustrated every game that they don't, and I have to try my hardest not to rage at them in chat. The most I ask is "Can you please build a sightstone? We have no vision." Most games, this is told off with the typical, "build it urself if you want vision" which then just tilts me more.

However, I genuinely feel bad for the support class who has to build it all the time in order to win the vision game. Dumping 800 gold early game into a VERY inefficient item for combat statwise (150 health for 800 gold is 50% gold efficient in combat) just sucks. If that 800 gold didn't have to be spent on item 2049 , supports would have so many more options. With 800 gold, a tank support could buy item 3067 , which not only gives more health for the same cost, but also a precious 10% CDR. With 900 gold, a mage support could get item 3108 , helping them win lane easier, as well as have damage to be able to be somewhat autonomous, being able to deal with enemy threats by themselves. However, the mandatory first purchase of item 2049 limits this type of build diversity.

We need to have more support players, but currently this kind of itemization limitation could be turning people off.

TL;DR: I think that people who don't build sighstone as support aren't that great, but I also do not like a system where players who play support MUST build sighstone in order to win the vision game.

P.S. I'm low key asking to try and have sighstone removed/changed, which could help support item diversity, attract more people to the role, and make me tilt less cause it no longer exists in the game.

169 Comments

Marshbouy16 votes

Anyone who complains about supports being forced to build sight stone does not know the pain of previous seasons where it was ~~1 gold gen item, boots, and wards for the rest of the game.~~heart of gold, philosophers stone, and gold per 10 quints.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo8 votes

lol it was two gold income items heart of gold and philosopher stone and gold per 10 quints

redfeenix2 votes

Damn I remember the real bankplank. 4 gp/10 items lol.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

lol dont forget old alvirce blade or whatever it was called that gave you +2 gold per unit killed

i use to get it on ashe and max her E 1st and out gold other adcs lol

redfeenix2 votes

old habits die so hard that sometimes I still learn E at lvl 1 on Ash by mistake. Damn that old E was awesome !

Marshbouy1 votes

i'll fix it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

its ok when that was meta your most likely still in diapers kiddo

lol

Marshbouy1 votes

lmao. More accurately i was in elementary school.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

so two games recently as galio support one i went 5-3-21 and this one i went 2-1-17 lol love troll supports

Toastersaot10 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0QgtsGn,comment-id=000500000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-25T03:50:28.108+0000)

so two games recently as galio support one i went 5-3-21 and this one i went 2-1-17 lol love troll supports

I really don't care what you support with as long as you have a Sightstone, however I don't want it to be this mandatory pick up that all supports must make.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

lol but when i made a comment on here bout me not getting SS and still placing more wards then the enemy support with SS i get downvoted.

DeathBurst5 votes

Because that's not supposed to happen unless the enemy support is utterly bad, base trinkets simply don't reload fast enough, so the only way this can be true is if the enemy support just didn't ward properly themselves. And by not buying a sightstone, you're also giving up on any way to remove enemy wards with red trinkets. Which, once again, is not a problem if the enemy is utterly bad, but is still half the vision job of a proper support.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

vision isnt the supports job... it is a team effort.

get out of that old out dated mindset , a support is more then a ward bitch

DeathBurst6 votes

I never said that, not even implied it.

Even if vision is a team effort, if only one team has a sightstone, the other team can't output as many wards (unless the team with the sightstone is utterly bad and didn't use it properly) AND can't remove wards because they also probably lack a red trinket.

So get out with your stupid generic answer that you give to everybody blaming you as a lame excuse, because it doesn't apply to what I said.

Anags2 votes

Does everyone forget that jungles can build a vision jungle item. I know red smite is OP, but the jungle could do that.

And you don't have to rush sight stone first item everytime.

Mama Soraka5 votes

I straight up always build green smite and ward for whatever lanes I gank, but then again I'm a support main first. Jungling is just a side gig.

Dextix LT3 votes

And? I play galio support myself (Have to, because everyone is play brand/zyra bullshit "supports"). He is not a troll support, as long as you support, and buying sighstone is one of the things needed to support.

Unstoppable Monk14 votes

item 2049 just needs to do 1500 true damage AoE to all Yasuos when placed. That will solve 1/2 the problems we have.

Oglaf5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unstoppable Monk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0QgtsGn,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2016-11-25T13:27:55.895+0000)

item 2049 just needs to do 1500 true damage AoE to all Yasuos when placed. That will solve 1/2 the problems we have.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/steven-universe/images/2/20/Clappy_birb_mom.gif/revision/latest?cb=20161018150504

Spice POWAH2 votes

Also ignores invincibility and targets Fizz, Vayne and other salt factories.

AtheosisX9 votes

Supports also have to build sub-par gold income items. And Riot is trying to figure out why people hate playing support, lol. At least combine vision and gold income items ffs...

Final Spark Lux8 votes

I actually have a hard time not building sightstone. I really like having control of vision when I need it

Done257 votes

Personally I wish Sight Stone didn't come with stats at all. Then, when you merged it with a gold gen item, it wouldn't bog said item down with HP that the person might not want.

Maximum Morde2 votes

Uhhh, unless you are suggesting that its price dramatically drop, wtf? HP is never an unwanted stat.

Done254 votes

HP is great on Tanks, but less useful on Utility types like Sona. I personally view it as a waste of gold. Drop the price to 400~600 and let the gold items flavor what you get. HP for Equinox. Regeneration for Oasis. AP for Watchers.

Battlecast Sona4 votes

As Sona's base HP is super low, it's actually one of the most valuable stats on her, especially in early laning.

I think you're really, really undervaluing the HP on the item. It certainly isn't why you buy it, but HP isn't a waste on anyone in the game, because you will eventually take damage.

Mountain Warden20 votes

{quoted}

Personally I wish Sight Stone didn't come with stats at all. Then, when you merged it with a gold gen item, it wouldn't bog said item down with HP that the person might not want.

You got a point. Sell me a sightstone with no health for 400ish gold instead of 800. Totally agree with you.

Automated Riven8 votes

they cant have it 400 or people would abuse the fact that you can buy it level 1 and literally cover botlane from 3 minutes to 6 minutes. and then back. and without jungle intervention with a capable duo lane you should be able to survive till your first back without dying. and that doesnt even count for the trinket wards either.

(dont get me wrong I would not dislike this change at all. but riot with their stance on windowed vision wouldnt stand for it. It would have to be at least 500 gold.)

Silverjust11 votes

how about it would only cost less, if you have a support-item?

xScarfy7 votes

Wow...I really love this idea! This way it will still be available for every non-support who wants to buy it (like lee) but it wont be such a pain in the a...butt for the supports who need to buy the item.

Automated Riven2 votes

lol that could work. Or have a item build into it thats semi useful simular to the jungle item

Sherogarth11 votes

Make item 3301/item 3303/item 3302 or even item 3096/item 3098/item 3097 required to purchase item 2049. Boom problem solved. Now you can even give item 2049 for 100g or as a bonus.

J Eevo7 votes

I'm curious if you couldn't just delete sightstone and add a passive to the support Gold gen items that made their trinket wards last longer and the trinket to have more charges...

Of course you run into a problem where supports can no longer have both wards and sweeper, but it could work if Control wards and Blue Plants were consistent enough and if more classes had Access to items with new duskblade passive.

6Sfool5 votes

If that support isn't planning on building sightstone they're failing your team. Sometimes I put off sightstone because the thing is useless if you're under tower, but I never finish 2 full items before I buy it. Yes it's not only the support's job to ward, but it's unlikely that everyone on your team is perfectly using their wards.

Immortal spax5 votes

lol, sightstone is the most cost efficient item in the game, it give u free 3 wards per back, that means that if u back 15 times in a game(example) u assisted u team with 45 ward + negating vision to the enemy with the red trinked, if u think only damage or cdr glet u win games, then... i feel sorry for u.

Silverjust6 votes

the problem is not that its not goldefficient; the problem is, it is not in-combat-goldefficent and the 800g strongly delays itemisation for a support (I´m not saying it should be removed or not built)

Immortal spax3 votes

if u want to pick items that are in-combat efficient, u play other roles, not support.

and just to give u a perspective, high elo non-support players buy like 2/3 wards per game, and if people who are DESIGNED to do damage sacrifice 200+ gold in vision, why cant a role that is design to support cant spend 800 gold in health+3wards per back?

edit:classic gameplay board who downvotes me for saying the truth, ah right, you were the same that kept saying that 56% sona was balanced lol

Battlecast Sona8 votes

support does not mean ward bitch.

SAY IT WITH ME NOW.

support does not mean ward bitch.

Battlecast Sona6 votes

it's a shit item though.

Like yes, it's great if you wanna be a ward bitch, but it has some glaring problems that need to be addressed.

  1. Two people with sweepers on the enemy team can completely invalidate your Sightstone. Free trinkets countering 800g = shitty for the support player, and they don't have to go back to base to get their sweeper back but you do, so have fun losing that 4v5 fight for dragon or trying to contest with no SS wards

  2. If you don't make SS first item and they clownfiesta gangbang your bottom lane you have basically handed them a huge free advantage based entirely around not wanting to dump 800g purely into vision and some piddly HP stats, and it's really hard to recover and purchase a Sightstone from behind if you spend your first back gold on something else (god forbid you bought a frostfang to get more gold)

Immortal spax2 votes

1)control ward too can be spotted, and they easili invalidated, with your reasoning, high elo non support player that spend on every match 200+ gold in control they are doing wrong, right?

2)yeah, you will do alot with your forbidden idol/Crystallin Bracer/pick axe when you are behind as a support, yeah sure, keep telling that to your self meanwhile the enemy midlaner have 2 blues at hid disposition because the enemy support choosed to pick forbidden idol, so u cant even contest it.

(56% sona wasnt balanced)

Battlecast Sona6 votes

A control ward doesn't force you to keep it in your inventory forever. It doesn't permanently take up an item slot unless you sell it.

And I'm not talking about "buying a forbidden idol" or some shit - I'm talking about "hmm, I have 800g but we just double killed them, I think I'll make Frostfang+boots and maybe a control ward instead of SS so we can maybe kill them again/I can get more gold/etc"

You know, meaningful strategic choices in build paths like every other class in the fucking game

Immortal spax2 votes

if u just double killed them and u still have to build frost fang, that means that you carry will have atleast BF+boots, another good engage with your support with abilities that dont scale well and full of utility and u will get another double, WHILE checking the enemy jungler and wasting his time bot because u warded the bush but he thinks that it isnt warded.

You know, meaningfull strategic choiches that let u anyway to build ** your damn frostfang thanks to the first blood tower.**

DarkRitual5 votes

What if we got rid of SS, and instead made a variety of trinket upgrades with different stats. One or two for offensive stats, one or two for utility, and one or two for defense. They don't need huge bonuses, but something like a pickaxe worth of AD, or 5 Lethality, 5% CDR, 5% heal/shield boost, 1% damage reduction, 2% bonus health.

Small bonuses, with some having more charges, or faster recharge, or different ranges. Something like that would be cool. Get everyone more actively involved in vision with more options.

MatthewRT24 votes

I don't mind getting sight stone, My job is to keep the adc as safe as possible and to get them as many kills as possible. Getting wards just makes my job easier and usually i can get the adc to pick up a control ward to give us even more map awareness.

khorney4 votes

and i hate how the adc doesnt build any damage. liek bf sword ......

Iivaitte4 votes

Meddler himself was talking about how this is an issue. (IIRC) This is one of the problems they hope to tackle in 2017.

There should be a giant post here somewhere about how they are trying to get some ideas on how to fix a lot of the problems of support.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

funny thing i trolled as leona support and went off tank damage build and didnt get sight stone.. enemy support did get sight stone

guess who placed more wards?

trick question... it was me with out a sight stone lol

Dextix LT4 votes

And this proves what? That the enemy support sucked ass? Congratulations, you do not have an argument!

Tribbles Foxfolk2 votes

If Sightstone's stats weren't a complete joke, I would actually build it. For now, though, Yellow Trinket is FAR more than enough vision, especially if people actually used the vision in the first place.

Dextix LT6 votes

Unless you are in bronze or silver, yellow trinket will never be enough for wards.

More from Gameplay

More by Toastersaot