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Rift Herald isn't worth my Junglers time compared to four man diving bot with the Mid laner.

Toastersaot··91 votes·5,067 views

I main top. I love awful, disgusting champions top lane like Gangplank and Vladimir .

However, I've really been noticing something. My Jungler just doesn't like coming top, and I really can't blame them.

Rift Herald is just not as efficient to take as Dragon, especially Infernal. If the Jungler with the mid laner, and kill the enemy bot lane with a 4-man dive, they get Bot turret (4-people smacking a non-fortified turret for that First Blood Gold) Dragon, 2-3 kills. In most games, many people just ignore it, since it just meant for splitpushing and gives little to the entire team. I liked the old rift Herald which gave minions that mini Baron buff better, since it gave the Jungler an reason to come top, even if it was to just snag up that buff every few minutes. Now Rift Herald just seems ignored to me.

Edit: I was tired af when writing this post, and I can give a good summary now I think.

Dragon: Can be soloed by a good number of champions who have decent single target DPS, such as Khazix , Vi ,LeeSin , Hecarim , but it can benefit the whole team for the ENTIRE duration of the game, and leads into a much more powerful Late Game with the Elder Drake buff, which is given to everybody on the team.

Rift Herald: Takes 2-3 people to kill, and only benefits on every of them directly. Splitpushing is a good way to help your team, but if your a tank or a teamfight oriented top laners(my highest mastery point tops are all AOE team fighters, Gangplank ,Vladimir ,Sion ) Rift Herald just isnt that great for the long run either, because it expires after 20 Minutes. It takes multiple people to kill to benefit one champion, which just doesn't feel good.

89 Comments

SGT Dingle Berry30 votes

Rift herald just takes too damn long to kill making you a sitting duck for a mediocre buff.

Darth Sidiouss8 votes

its not mediocre its pretty damn good if your split pushing, 1v1 potential and more opportunities to 1v2 when the JG comes top for you.

Erockandroll21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yeezy Taught you,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-12-21T17:33:44.920+0000)

its not mediocre its pretty damn good if your split pushing, 1v1 potential and more opportunities to 1v2 when the JG comes top for you.

I think the real problem is that Rift herald isn't really fun to take.

With Dragon, many champs can solo it, but everyone focuses dragon because everyone benefits.

With Rift herald, you usually need 2 or more people to defeat it, just to get a buff that will at most effect one person. There's no greed in helping top laner get that buff, taking rift herald is purely a supportive task.

If Riot is under the opinion that Rift Herald shouldn't be soloed, then I think it should grant at least 2 copies of the buff. (even if they had to tone the buff down to do it.)

LightSword2 votes

Or simply remake the buff to something that would suite two people to have.

SerBlaise1 votes

I think the idea was to make RH a buff that would work well FOR a solo champion, given that it's located near the top lane where you usually put a solo laner and obviously the jungler who could benefit from soloing the enemy jung. Giving to only one person also creates interesting strategic choices. However, right now it really seems like it's only something you can take if you are already ahead in top or jung, since it requires so long to take. In that sense, the act of actually taking it doesn't really present itself as a truly strategic choice. It's relatively easy to sneak a drag because it requires less players/less time, and that side of the map offers more potential help.

LightSword1 votes

But the issue it currently has is that both jungle and top practically have to be ahead to make it worth the time, and they literally made it so that two people would have to work together to take a buff made for a single person, which is why it seems to be counter-intuitive almost. I feel like they either need to make it more practical for two people to take it, make it reasonably soloable (by champions not named shaco or elise), or make it a more team-focused objective (which would ruin almost the entire point of it in the first place).

High51 votes

That's a good idea. If it benefited both people, it would probably be a bit more popular.

I've taken it once in 10 games recently and didn't need it on Cho'gath. We all stared at the buff and then the kinglet finally took it. That's the problem with the buff. It's too situational unless there's nothing else to take.

Ralanr20 votes

I feel Rift Herald failed to do it's job in making top lane relevant. The buff it provides is only good for splitpushing (so if you're not playing a splitpusher you're not using it to its fullest potential).

I feel if it offered a teamwide buff rather than a solo buff for killing it then top would be a more contested role. As a top laner I want to contribute to my team and as a tank main my contribution is through teamfights.

Outside of Shen do you think tanks are good splitpushers? Not really. Even with Sion's escape ability he needs to build damage if he wants to take those towers at a good pace. Not like I can use my high base damage abilities on towers...

10Tickler9 votes

It's a multi-part issue in making top lane relevant again. First thing riot needs to do is actually give bot turret some defenses back. It's fine if they're weaker than mid or top's defenses, but SOMETHING to discourage 4-5 people from coming bot and steamrolling down two people, their turret, then Dragon without any chance of contest.

Melledoneus5 votes

Not to mention that Rift Herald becomes useless if you group with your team.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah. It's only good for lone splitpushers, which would be fine if that's all that went top.

But it's not.

Melledoneus1 votes

Not to mention it's not very satisfying visually or in gameplay.

Ralanr1 votes

Eh, gameplay it's satisfying in that it allows me to win duels against Irelia.

Melledoneus2 votes

{quoted} allows me to win duels against Irelia.

Sign me up.

Faustavian1 votes

Play... Kled

kasfas1 votes

Dag-nabbit your gonna get us KILLED!

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

*when you get it and suddenly everone wants to follow you around for no apparent reason.

Ok guys, i do see that there are a lot of enemies here. Go push something else, because if the top and jungle dive me I'll just kill them.

kasfas1 votes

I mean if you ult them with a mountain drake it does a good bit of damage.

Magimodeller1 votes

{quoted}

I feel Rift Herald failed to do it's job in making top lane relevant. The buff it provides is only good for splitpushing (so if you're not playing a splitpusher you're not using it to its fullest potential).

I feel if it offered a teamwide buff rather than a solo buff for killing it then top would be a more contested role. As a top laner I want to contribute to my team and as a tank main my contribution is through teamfights.

Outside of Shen do you think tanks are good splitpushers? Not really. Even with Sion's escape ability he needs to build damage if he wants to take those towers at a good pace. Not like I can use my high base damage abilities on towers...

There's only Singed, but it's because he got a weird, half braindeadunique playstyle that let's you proxy all 3 lanes if you really want to.

HalfTangible7 votes

As a jungle main myself... Herald is too strong to take down even close to safely at a point where it'd matter. Much like Baron, you need at least 3 people to take down, and it'd take a long while without your whole team. But early game, you can't really afford to do that over farming. I've seen herald get taken maybe 4 times, and in almost all cases that team was already stompin'.

Glory ln Death7 votes

Nerf the buff's power and duration by maybe 25-50% and give it to all allies who participated in the kill. Maybe change the buff to make it something everyone wants.

Make it so everyone wants to get the buff, so everyone wants to help take it - which is what you usually need. More team participation, everyone who participates is rewarded, and the enemy really wants to contest.

Darth Sidiouss4 votes

I play Yorick and just solo the rift my self once i get item 3078.

xWaters1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yeezy Taught you,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-21T17:32:39.363+0000)

I play Yorick and just solo the rift my self once i get item 3078.

im sort of become a yorick main so my question is do you use the maiden to help with the rift or just 4 ghouls?

Darth Sidiouss1 votes

i use the maiden because there is a trick to have only the ghouls but you u gotta have the rift aggro on you by standing really close in front of the rift so it doesn't hit your ghouls but its hard to pull off. When you summon the maiden make sure you summon to side of you so the rift doesn't aggro on her instead of you.

TheHurricaneGamr4 votes

What if Rift Herald gave some kind of permanent buff? For me, it just seems too tanky and does too much damage for the reward it gives. You take at least 1 minute that the top laner and jungler could be farming/ganking, force them to back as well and for what? You get a luden's echo proc on autos that last 20 minutes. That's it. No permanent buffs and nothing to actually help the team get their items faster. First turrets and drakes are much more valuable and benefit THE ENTIRE TEAM not just one person. The actual problem is what does this hypothetical buff give that sets it apart from the others?

Zydron4 votes

Kinda seems backwards to have a selfish buff unable to be soloed but a team-wide buff that can be gotten repeatedly soloable

PiVoRx3 votes

Even if you manage to do a clean top gank, iy still takes too long to kill herald before someone comes.

Oleandervine2 votes

Yeah, I can't recall the last time I have ever seen someone take the Rift Herald. Everyone just wants dragons and the Baron now.

Fondling Gems3 votes

I took it the other day. All the waves were in a crappy position for either team to do anything and there were 4 of us mid after a roam so we said screw it and called down the top laner for it. Turned into a big ass teamfight that broke even in the end. Only thing that we got out of it was our Top laner happened to be the one who picked it up in the chaos. Really though we were so low after doing it that we only managed to break even in the fight due to some good plays on our part and team coordination.

For the risk of that fight? I would not have made a call for it if I had known they were going to collapse. 2 dead on each side and the rest of our team barely making it out safely? I mean, it was worth it technically, but we would have been massacred if they hadn't funneled into the rift entrance with an illaoi on top of them.

Ravore3 votes

I like the way you make it sound. Made me laugh because it was worded like they were in war and the other side came from the trees

Maximum Morde2 votes

Infernal is the weakest drake btw.

Cowseed1 votes

Ocean for the win

Praetor Notorias5 votes

Mountain > Air > Ocean > Infernal

You can flip-flop ocean and air depending on the team, but air movement is going to be more beneficial than regen most of the time.

Ïnsidious6 votes

Infernal is a good drake though, at least as good as mountain

LankPants1 votes

Unquestionably better. A large part of early Mountain's strength is derived from the fact that it potentially allows you to rush an Infernal spawn.

Toastersaot4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-12-21T17:59:45.317+0000)

Infernal is the weakest drake btw.

I always thought it was the strongest, but primarily because ADC's scale very well with the Drake, due to having the Infernal multiply their AD, which then is the further multiplied by their Attack Speed and Crit. I think someone on the Boards did the math once, but it's also especially broken on Jhin due to his passive and how much bonus AD it gives him.

Over Innsmouth1 votes

I once hit 1050 AD on Jhin thanks to three Infernals spawning in a row.

Good times. Not for the enemy Elise, but good times.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

When you have a Veigar and a Jhin, and RNG spawns three infernals in a row.

For the enemy team, because your junglers in a premade with the top lane and won't come down :[

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=0005000200000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T00:04:39.884+0000)

When you have a Veigar and a Jhin, and RNG spawns three infernals in a row.

For the enemy team, because your junglers in a premade with the top lane and won't come down :[

Although Veigar is amongst the best mages that use infernal, pretty much every adc still uses it better than him because of their 100% AD scaling up to 2.5x per second.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Yeah I know, but it's not like you're gonna have an ADC every lane lol.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=000500020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T04:37:34.588+0000)

Yeah I know, but it's not like you're gonna have an ADC every lane lol.

Vayne top Draven mid Ashe MissFortune bot Graves jg

You wot m8

Supreme Senpai692 votes

Draven mid? I've gone Corki and Ezreal mid a lot, and obviously Jhin too, but not Draven. I wonder if Lucian could work though

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rRLuhPWn,comment-id=00050002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T06:30:13.633+0000)

Draven mid? I've gone Corki and Ezreal mid a lot, and obviously Jhin too, but not Draven. I wonder if Lucian could work though

These are adcs that can find success mid, according to personal experience:

Ashe Caitlyn Corki Ezreal Jhin Sivir I've played these Draven Lucian MissFortune Quinn Urgot Varus I've seen these played

Hrkk Ptoo1 votes

As a Jungler who Prioritizes objectives over everything else I find it frustrating when I Successfully gank top and tell them were doing rift that they continue to farm or go back. I think on the right top laner Rift herald just helps increase that pressure on the top lane and lets me help the other lanes without having to worry about top as much. I understand how important it is to get snowball champs fed and relevant in the early game. Herald isn't that hard to take down you really just need 2 people and vision on the enemy jungler.

Karn Bishop3 votes

Here's the thing though a good jungler will use the time you take to grab the rift to take that juicy infernal or wind dragon, and yes i value wind dragon highly because mobility is important in a game like this.

LankPants1 votes

Cloud just falls short of giving enough mobility to be a top tier drake. It's not bad, but it's not on par with Mountain drake or Infernal drake.

I won't personally fight over a Cloud, I won't trade more than a tower for it ever and I don't feel good about a tower for drake trade. I also only attempt low risk steals onto Clouds because if there's a fair risk of dying it's not worth the pressure loss.

Comparitivlly I'd be willing to trade a tower and a Herald for Infernal, happy to trade a tower for Mountain and willing to risk a steal on either.

Cloud's still definitely better than Ocean though, I'd consider trading Ocean for a tower to be trading down.

Hrkk Ptoo1 votes

in my elo their are no good junglers. Just junglers who happen to be in the right place at the right time. No body knows how to take advantage of enemies positions in bronze/silver. "bot lanes missing? guess its a good time to go back and not do dragon/take turret"

I think depending on your team comp Ocean is really good at skirmish team comps. Or making quick picks and pushing in lanes.

Incarceration1 votes

How about we increase the buff (400 -580 damage at 309 stacks + 7% damage reduction), buff the bot lane towers (increase it by 75 armor), make it worth less gold (by like 50), make Rift Global easier to take (lowering the health of it to 4,000, but increasing its resistances by 10, and lowering its damage by 10)?

We should also increase bot lane's inner tower gold by 100 and decrease the bot lane's outer tower gold by 50 gold while increasing the bot lane outer tower's armor by 75.

It's open to suggestion since it seems a bit op.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

There's no point in buffing Rift Herald. People aren't taking it because it's weak. Since the rift herald buff lasts for 20 minutes, doesn't perish on death, and only happens when you're alone, it's actually perfect- the jungler can get it for their top laner and then never gank again and focus completely on bot. Yet people still aren't taking it. That's because the Rift Herald just takes too damn long to take and deals too much damage. It's too risky. The enemy team realizes they haven't seen the top laner in 3 minutes, go over there to see a low HP jungler/top laner, and kill them.

I think they need to make it easier to take. By all means, if that warrants a nerf to the buff it gives, then so be it.

Incarceration4 votes

Rift Herald only benefited certain champs, while dragons benefited entire compositions no matter what they have. It might be extremely strong for some champions, but if we can rework it to something that can benefit all, no matter what they are playing, and make it easier to take, it could be a viable option.

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