So Deathfire Touch rune was removed because if provided nothing but additional damage

ThePikol·Jul 30, 2018·46 votes·11,819 views

Please tell me how is it different from current runes? From Comet, Aery, Electrocute? They also give nothing but additional damage to your poke or burst

29 Comments

BLACK REALM GODJul 30, 201813 votes

...well for starters...

deathfire touch wasn't created during season 7/8 during the new runes reforged.

and secondly...

in a glass bubble it's the same thing as scorch.

it wasnt removed. it was reworked/replaced.

AyzevJul 31, 20181 votes

Scorch has a cooldown, doesn't scale and its damage is a single delayed proc. Deathfire did scale, had no downtime and was actual DoT that interacted differently with single-target, AoE and DoT abilities. All they have in common is that they deal damage after an ability was hit. I don't think that's enough to say that one is just a different version of the other.

BLACK REALM GODJul 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Scorch has a cooldown, doesn't scale and its damage is a single delayed proc. Deathfire did scale, had no downtime and was actual DoT that interacted differently with single-target, AoE and DoT abilities. All they have in common is that they deal damage after an ability was hit. I don't think that's enough to say that one is just a different version of the other.

...umm... in my mind it is. have you not seen the new galio?

are you not aware of death fire grasp? or their predecessor?

it's all meant to do the same thing.

AyzevJul 31, 20181 votes

Yeah, they all basically just give you damage. But look at Jhin, for example. Since Deathfire's AD ratio was balanced around the average AD champion, not Jhin specifically, he could abuse the hell out of it with his passive. Or look at Malzahar, who could keep refreshing DfT's burn with E and voidlings. But with Scorch, it doesn't matter if Jhin or Malzahar or anyone else takes it, it will have the exact same numbers.

BLACK REALM GODJul 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, they all basically just give you damage. But look at Jhin, for example. Since Deathfire's AD ratio was balanced around the average AD champion, not Jhin specifically, he could abuse the hell out of it with his passive. Or look at Malzahar, who could keep refreshing DfT's burn with E and voidlings. But with Scorch, it doesn't matter if Jhin or Malzahar or anyone else takes it, it will have the exact same numbers.

correct. and that is the intended effect.

Vlada CutJul 30, 20184 votes

Aery and Scorch. Limited version of Deathfire. Bye.

HerlgarJul 30, 20184 votes

Every rune and item passive has to give more damage now. Utility is booooooring.

BavalJul 30, 20183 votes

counterplay/decision making. comet is dodgable, aerys CD depends on range, electrocute takes 3 hits. Deathfire was automatic.

its not that big of a deal because the others are treated as automatic by people using them anyway, but thems the breaks.

Beatrice fallsJul 30, 201815 votes

PTA / Hail of blades / The other one that's the same as Hail o fblades but forgot its name

They just lost af, not knowing what they doing anymore lmao

BavalJul 30, 20189 votes

Hail of blades only works on your first 3 attacks so again, decision making. PTA requires focusing a single target. Conquerer and Lethal tempo both require extended fights. Again, all have decision making on their use unlikes DFT which just works all the time every time with no though or priority.

MalakJul 30, 201817 votes

{quoted}

Hail of blades only works on your first 3 attacks so again, decision making. PTA requires focusing a single target. Conquerer and Lethal tempo both require extended fights. Again, all have decision making on their use unlikes DFT which just works all the time every time with no though or priority.

"decision making" lol

Imagine if they release a rune where you have to breathe to active it. All you Riot apologists would say "you gotta decide to breathe" lmfao

Yes, a lot of decision making in attacking someone three fucking times

SithesisLordJul 30, 20186 votes

Which is better, stacking Conqueror on the tank and then jumping on the ADC, or stacking Conqueror on the ADC then jumping on the tank?

Depends on the situation. That's decision making. Sometimes doing the first is better, sometimes it´s not.

There's decision making in the PTA procs, because it may not be worthwhile trying to proc it if you´ll just lose the trade anyways, despite getting the extra damage.

There's decision making involving the uses of Lethal Tempo, as in proc to trade or proc to push the wave/farm.

AyzevJul 31, 20183 votes

The situations where you'd rather hit a tank over an ADC are exceptionally rare, regardless if you have Conqueror or not. This is only really a choice if you don't care whether or not you win the fight. And the others also just boil down to "Am I strong enough to fight here?"

FilDaFunkJul 31, 20181 votes

Dodge the aa, there's your counterplay.

Warlord RhinarkJul 30, 201829 votes

{quoted}

counterplay/decision making. comet is dodgable, aerys CD depends on range, electrocute takes 3 hits. Deathfire was automatic.

its not that big of a deal because the others are treated as automatic by people using them anyway, but thems the breaks.

Deathfire Touch's "counterplay" would be the fact that it's damage is delayed.

All the other damage is instant, Deathfire Touch gives you room for fighting back and using any shields/heals you have.

MalakJul 30, 20187 votes

{quoted}

counterplay/decision making. comet is dodgable, aerys CD depends on range, electrocute takes 3 hits. Deathfire was automatic.

its not that big of a deal because the others are treated as automatic by people using them anyway, but thems the breaks.

"decision making" lol

Imagine if they release a rune where you have to breathe to active it. All you Riot apologists would say "you gotta decide to breathe" lmfao

Yes, a lot of decision making in attacking someone three fucking times

both your posts deserve the same reply

BavalJul 30, 20182 votes

both of yours deserve the same reply too

lol ok bud cant take being wrong eh?

RaiyzaJul 31, 20183 votes

Remember kids, Deathfire touch was here BEFORE Ghostcrawler joined, if I'm not mistaken.

KFCeytronJul 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Please tell me how is it different from current runes? From Comet, Aery, Electrocute? They also give nothing but additional damage to you poke or burst

Aery isn't "nothing but additional damage." It can also provide a shield when you aid an ally.

LeonerdoJul 31, 20182 votes

DFT was removed because they couldn't give it a satisfying, visible effect, like all the other keystones got. If they did, then everyone would constantly be obscured by DFT fire. To be a good keystone, the player needs to be able to tell when it's having an effect on the game (or not). ("Wow that's a lot of Aery bolts." "Damn they keep dodging the comets." "Damn that Electrocute burst." "Thank god for that Guardian shield" "Oops I wasted that Guardian/Aery shield. It didn't even pop." )

Passively providing damage on attacks has nothing to do with why it. What matter is whether you can notice it, so you can use that feedback to inform future decisions (about which keystone to pick, or about how you want to play to maximize the use of the keystone). There was no way for people to tell when DFT was doing a good/bad job. Supposedly it was good on DPS mages. But what about other mages? Did it do 10 damage or 50 in that fight? Did it help kill anyone? There was no way to tell, because you couldn't see it. Contrast that to Aery, which you can see doing damage every time it procs. You can notice when you're getting a lot of use out of it. And sometimes you can even see it get a kill.

PaffWasTakenJul 31, 20182 votes

I'm thinking seriously more and more that Riot despises every single mage in the game aside from Xerath and Vladimir . Even if every single other mages wouldn't have any other decent option for their keystones, if those two mentioned earlier would have some pretty decent ones, Riot wouldn't do anything about it.

XilixerJul 31, 20182 votes

don't forget Vel'koz. they don't dare touch him because he is the actual pinnacle of balance.

i kick routersJul 31, 20182 votes

[deleted]

XilixerJul 31, 20181 votes

no he didn't?

edit: ah your referring to patch 8.14. which he got a .2 ratio increase to his Q

GrReaper96Jul 30, 20181 votes

Because the 10% extra damage?

FilDaFunkJul 31, 20181 votes

I wouldn't mind this replcaing comet, great when you want to extend a fight.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 31, 20181 votes

It's not just "extra damage", but "extra uninteractive damage" that was the issue.

DFT left you literally nothing to do against it. You got hit by an ability and you took that extra damage no matter what.

At least against Conquerer in theory you can take short enough trades that it doesn't proc. You can avoid Comet. You can use CC and dodge things to avoid Electrocute.

Aery has a bit of the same issue as DFT, although the intent with it was clearly less to be extra damage and more to encourage enchanters to be more interactive in lane.