83% win rate, 50% ban rate haHAA BALANCED CHAMP BTW
Bjergsen gets penta kill on nerfed 8.15 Irelia, two patches later she gets buffed.
Let's make a hyper-mobile champion with uninterruptible damage reduction and infinite mobility. GJ.
RiotRiot MapleNectar26 votesFor a lengthy tournament like World's it's often best to wait until the end to asses what the overall balance state of the game was. As an example, last week we were being mocked because Kai'sa had a 65% winrate in playins. Now in groups she has a 37% winrate. By the end of the tournament she could totally climb again, but it remains to be seen. Even after this post irelia lost two straight, bringing that 83% winrate down to 63%. When we're dealing with small sample sizes, swings in champ performances can be really drastic after just one day of games, or as the meta in a tournament evolves.
Poolparty Sauron1 votesThat being said, are there any plans for Irelia changes(pls be nerfs) in the near future MN?
Moody P3 votesput Volibear in worlds ok?
Fízz v26 votesYoure right, but I dont think it takes much assessment to know that Irelia needs a nerf tbh, high elo soloq has shown that for long enough no?
but then again, camille is still god tier top and jungler in soloq, played by almost every high elo korean in those roles heh
Pika Fox6 votesA champion currently doing well doesnt inherently mean you need to make gameplay adjustments. Ideally the playerbase will deal with it themselves, eventually moving towards something that can deal with that specific champion/playstle well and turn the wheel themselves.
Riot tends to buff/nerf to get the wheel turning themselves, given players tend to not like to change things and take risks themselves to make the wheel turn on their own. Placebo buff/nerfs work wonders for this.
Ragnaveil1 votesBut who says EVERYONE is playing her top and jg? I honestly see more Skarner picks than Camille jg picks where I am currently. Camille Jg (and Irelia in general) requires a team that can play to their strengths. If those are not fulfilled, then they suffer to their weakness currently: Being bursted to oblivion.
Sharpest glasses1 votesbut then again, camille is still god tier top and jungler in soloq, played by almost every high elo korean in those roles heh
a full season isnt enough*[sg-miss-fortune]*
Sharpest glasses4 votesi honestly like theses Worlds, its so much better than ardent meta or any "everyone for adc".
But clearly, Irelia and Kaisa needed some nerfs before worlds patch. Anyway, kai'sa is nerfed on pbe, hope you'll nerf Irelia AND GRAVES !!!!! (-3 AD seriously).
RiotRiot MapleNectar15 votesthe nerf to graves + dark harvest dropped him ~2.8% at high mmr. You have to factor base ad into every single auto attack over a game, every ability combo - it all adds up
ModThe Djinn3 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tu8ssmke,comment-id=000200030000,timestamp=2018-10-14T21:23:57.516+0000)
the nerf to graves + dark harvest dropped him ~2.8% at high mmr. You have to factor base ad into every single auto attack over a game, every ability combo - it all adds up
^This. Especially true early on because, if that 3 AD is every the difference between needing an extra auto-attack to kill something, that could cost you 40+ health several times in the jungle, which is fairly significant in the early-game and can be the difference between a safe gank and one you can't risk.
BBC Pipe1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tu8ssmke,comment-id=0002000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-14T21:28:44.192+0000)
^This. Especially true early on because, if that 3 AD is every the difference between needing an extra auto-attack to kill something, that could cost you 40+ health several times in the jungle, which is fairly significant in the early game and can be the difference between a safe gank and one you can't risk.
however, graves can still knock them back with his auto attacks and completely avoid all damage so your safe gank or risky gank theory is incorrect. For per say a new player it poses harder because they won't know the jg clear and build/ leveling guide. Which has caused alot of graves to start e for the reload.
Ragnaveil2 votesIf I have to think, boards is likely asking his E armor to be gutted because he's too tanky with it. I feel like if we nerf pen across the board, this damage meta could be more tolerable for both tanks and squishes alike.
Kazekiba1 votesThis. Why on earth does a marksman need 120 bonus armor? He shouldnt be able to knockback monsters either, as combined with his E it makes him FAR too healthy (as in, current HP%) at clearing the jungle. Of course he's not the only champion who can avoid damage or heal it insanely fast. It's a combination of factors that becomes a major issue. even early on, 60 armor while fighting Dragon makes him pretty much invulnerable especially with 10% life steal baked into the jungle item + Fleet footwork + an early vamp scepter (into Death's dance)
Also it's worth noting this 120 armor is on a champion who already builds an HP item and gets a ton of % damage reduction in the Double dance build.... and again. Can easily just take Fleet Footwork. "but his keystone was nerfed!!!" is not a good excuse.
Especially not when you nerfed Wukong, and then just the very next patch nerfed him again, nerfed Electrocute, AND nerfed Sudden Impact.
Wukong becomes meta for the first time in over 4 years, instantly removed from the game.
Graves dominates the meta in solo q and several pro play appearances for over a year, or more. untouched.
Ragnaveil1 votesI feel like Armor isn't the huge part of the issue, but Graves' godlike rise to glory in this season came with the addition of Stormrazor. His buckshot passive crits have a different scaling, which is bypassing the weakened crit modifier on Storm (from what I can tell). I feel like Stormrazor's modifier should overrule modifiers such as the buckshot one Graves has, therefore weaking the god tier burst he's currently putting out. That and maybe removing the two stack gain for dashing into enemies? I'd mainly just stick with the buckshot thing above.
Sharpest glasses2 votesstill very shy comparative to Wukong nerf or even Eve on this patch.
Pika Fox4 votes-3 AD is massive. Champs have gone from pick/ban to unviable from less. Especially with how AD works for his auto attacks, and the fact that hes a jungler, and junglers dont get supplemental stats to their damage to non jungle creeps until like 2k gold in.
Sharpest glasses1 votesshould stop parroting other. His wr didnt change around plat and lower. Even High elos streamers laughed at the change (Scarra, LS...)
Pika Fox4 votesIf they laughed at the change, they arent that good. Seriously, 3 AD on a jungler is absolutely massive, especially since that 3 AD nerfs each pellet.
Sharpest glasses1 votesIf they laughed at the change, they arent that good.
lel.
Seriously, 3 AD on a jungler is absolutely massive, especially since that 3 AD nerfs each pellet.
Its big... on paper. But Graves was too strong to begin, so even with this nerf he's still top tier. And thats why theses ex pro, coach... laugh at it.
JackMcSnipeyz5 votesHs's currently 49% WR plat+ in the current patch, 50% gold+, the nerf worked, just because he was not gutted doesnt mean the nerf was not enough. Both his mastery and him were nerfed and that adds up in the bigger picture, soon he will drop in popularity aswell just like every other FotM champ and he will return to an acceptable state that isnt s complete gutted champ.
Sharpest glasses1 votes2 things :
JackMcSnipeyz2 votesSo how do you judge if a champion deserves a nerf if not by statistics? Feelings? That's way less reliable. If i give you hard data that shows he dropped in winrate and pickrate and your only response is WR doesnt matter, then you have no argument, you are simply talking about how you feel, which is not how champions should be balanced around.
Sharpest glasses1 votesSo how do you judge if a champion deserves a nerf if not by statistics?
forgot one word (i edited). wanted to say wr alone is useless.
Its your main (and you stomp these games), ofc you wont feel like he's too strong.
Eleshakai2 votes[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tu8ssmke,comment-id=00020003000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-15T12:08:16.549+0000)
2 things :
- taking wr in account is stupid, his pickrate is high too
- wr isnt all, look at Galio low wr, low pr but the pick is OP
No, taking winrate into account is NOT stupid. Judging ENTIRELY off winrate would be stupid, but winrate is absolutely a valid stat to pay attention to when making balance decisions.
Admittedly, I'm fairly low rank still, but I have not seen many terribly successful graves recently. The change certainly seems to have made a difference, and I'm glad that Riot has some more subtle tools in their kit than they've used for overperforming champions in the past.
Sharpest glasses1 votesNo, taking winrate into account is NOT stupid. Judging ENTIRELY off winrate would be stupid, but winrate is absolutely a valid stat to pay attention to when making balance decisions.
Edited, wanted to say picking only the winrate.
Admittedly, I'm fairly low rank still, but I have not seen many terribly successful graves recently. The change certainly seems to have made a difference, and I'm glad that Riot has some more subtle tools in their kit than they've used for overperforming champions in the past.
i perma ban him. You can see how strong he is on high elo stream (Valkrin, Tarzaned...), if you dont play so much. im sad riot take so long to address huge issue (Kaisa, Graves, Irelia...)
Kazekiba2 votes3 ad does literally nothing to his burst combos, and both damaging skills are bonus AD anyway. Please, tell LS he's bad at this game again.
Pika Fox2 votesUtterly garbage. Especially if the argument is "it does nothing to his burst combos".
Hes a jungler. He uses auto attacks as his main source of jungle damage. 3 ad affects all his pellets, which affects his clear time, as well as how healthy he is during clear.
It also massively impacts his early game gank power, both by being slower with less HP, and reducing his auto attack damage on a target quite a bit.
Sharpest glasses1 votesIt also massively impacts his early game gank power
??? Graves isnt an early ganker
TheSingularity1 votesHi Maplenectar thanks for the response.
Just curios as to your thoughts on the "suicide Sion" strat that has popped up. A rather frustrating thing to deal with that really sucks the fun out of the game for both teams. As the Sion isn't playing league of legends, he's playing wack a tower simulator.
As many champions you have little to no way to deal with it. And unless you're an anti tank like darius, vayne or fiora, the kills he gives you mean nothing as you won't be able to kill him faster than he kills you.
Potentially adding a new passive called hardening knuckles would be the way to go? As he punches stuff in passive mode. Essentially pre X minutes his melee attacks in passive form deal zero damage
Pika Fox1 votesThey already made a post that inting sion is fine atm, and theyre waiting to see if the community learns to deal with it before doing anything (especially since countering the strat means you literally just need to play the game properly anyway, its not that difficult to deal with)
Weiner the Pooh1 votesBut Irelia will be getting nerfed right? That character is disgusting to play against. Her mobility + damage plus tankiness + stickiness + overall team utility is just too much. This character has just too much, shes ridiculously hard to peel, has great engage and catch potential and her split push is still strong. You can't burst her if you catch her out. The character is just stressful and ridiculous to play against.
Nausicäa 1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tu8ssmke,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-14T15:50:09.806+0000)
For a lengthy tournament like World's it's often best to wait until the end to asses what the overall balance state of the game was. As an example, last week we were being mocked because Kai'sa had a 65% winrate in playins. Now in groups she has a 37% winrate. By the end of the tournament she could totally climb again, but it remains to be seen. Even after this post irelia lost two straight, bringing that 83% winrate down to 63%. When we're dealing with small sample sizes, swings in champ performances can be really drastic after just one day of games, or as the meta in a tournament evolves.
Yes because Irelia solo killing Syndra almost instantly with 0 counterplay possible at lvl 6 and the again soon after under a turret isnt a big enough indication that this champion is broken. Lets wait until the end of the worlds.
EyesOfTheFox1 votesThoughts on Aatrox and Urgot being 99.99% pick ban so far?
DuskDaUmbreon8 votesThat means she's only been picked in...what, 5/6 games, then?
6 games isn't a large enough sample size...
saltran2 votesAnd another loss right now
LilxPaprika1 votestbf pros pick her / ban her because they've played countless high level games with her and know what she can offer to team fights + top
After3perma1 votesThat means she's only been picked in...what, 5/6 games, then?
6 games isn't a large enough sample size...
Not six games tho. There is more.
Mordepool6 votesThat Small sample size
Irelia Bot5 votesReally? It isn't over 95%?
With how everyone is talking I would think it to be 100%.
Currently it stands at 5 wins 3 losses or a 62.5 win rate.
If you are using worlds stats to balance then Noc and Alistar are more deserving of nerfs.
Also hello inactive player on a smurf account.
Kazekiba2 votesDevil's advocate: Alistar and nocturne definitely do deserve nerfs. Mainly Alistar's rank 1 ultimate. Trample-empowered auto attack could also be a little weaker.
chipndip14 votesIrelia isn't even the big shit popping this worlds. Like, you guys did the same complaining about Akali, and now that she's quiet down you're onto this?
CHEWYARMS2 votesLooool "hyperscaling" is not a thing anymore.
These champs also have insane laning phases.
Jax, irelia, Fiora and yasuo plus a few others all deserve to get shit on pre 2/3 items. But in their current form they shit on people in lane.
Danksley1 votesSub-40% soloqueue winrate incoming.
Sir Prepuzius1 votesi have 100% winrate with fizz
yes, i played him only once.
