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Let's talk about Zyra's plants

TurretBud··1 votes·2,293 views

When minions (Tibbers/Daisy/Plants/Heimer Turrets etc.) are too strong, they are completely awful and frustrating to play against. Proper counterplay needs to be in place in order for them to not be completely irritating to play against.

I'd like to talk about the differences between Heimerdinger's turrets, AI that feels somewhat okay to play against, and Zyra's plants, which to me, feel over-tuned and frustrating to play against. Heimerdinger's turrets don't do much damage in between their empowered attacks, they push minions effectively, but the high damage aspect of them can be avoided and is predictable to some extent. The closer you are to them the more damage you're going to take. Zyra's plant auto attacks cannot be dodged, and do equal damage at every range. They do, however, have less health, and disappear quite quickly. As far as their health, without being able to get rid of them in a single attack, killing them feels unrewarding and results in you taking equal, if not more damage for saying in range.

Now... how should you address this? There are several ways:

  1. Reduce the health on her plants to make them 1-shot
  2. Move some of the power from her basic plant auto attacks to plants which are in her ultimate, which currently feel somewhat lackluster in comparison to her regular plants.
  3. Mini-rework, allow Zyra to aim her plant auto attacks, this is much more complex than it sounds, but I feel like it would bring depth to the champion, and make her both more rewarding to play, and less frustrating to play against.

7 Comments

MiTsuO Akai3 votes

I thought this would be a thread discussing how weak she is now as a laner... But instead you want to nerf her some more.... YOU GET A DOWN VOTE FOR THIS POST SIR!!

TurretBud1 votes

I'm not even suggesting a nerf, done the correct way, this could easily end up being a buff... I'm just saying that her plants aren't engaging. There are ways to both introduce counter-play and buff a champion at the same time.

PrinceOfStorms2 votes

All three of your suggestions would destroy Zyra as a champion. Why not just remove the ability for champions like Caitlyn and Jinx to autoattack? That's the level of nerf you're suggesting.

To be more specific:

  1. It shouldn't be possible for anyone to one shot her plants from level one, that's retarded. It's like asking for Zed to get knocked back any time he's auto'd in melee range. It destroys her primary mechanic (plants). It's already stupid enough that turrets automatically aggro onto any plants placed within their range and oneshot them, making it extremely difficult to harass your opponent under turret.
  2. Destroys her pre-6 laning, and requires that she have her ult, which is on an extremely long cooldown (110s) to kill anyone.
  3. She can already aim her plant autoattacks, sort of. They attack whatever Zyra autos, and if she doesn't, they acquire their own targets. Unless you're asking to turn them into skillshots, which is stupid considering that her E is already a relatively difficult to land skillshot (narrow, and doesn't root for a reasonable duration until maxed).

If you want to nerf Zyra support, just reduce the base damage on her plant autos and increase the AP scaling. It weakens her early, when your ADC can't one shot the plants, but gives her plants extra strength in the mid-late game when she starts to fall off.

TurretBud2 votes

I didn't give any numbers for any of my suggestions beyond the first one... currently she spits out too much unavoidable damage, period. Making that damage lower, or shifting her powers elsewhere in the correct way will not destroy her as a champion. I'm simply suggesting possible ways to make the champion less irritating to play against, the numbers are what makes a champion good or not. Any champion can be completely worthless or amazing simply by adjusting base and scaling damages.

OneTrickZilian2 votes

"Proper counterplay needs to be in place in order for them to not be completely irritating to play against."

  • There are plenty of counters. Clearly, you just don't know how to play against it. I would recommend you to take Zyra as support and learn game play so you would know it's cons and pros.
Touch My Box1 votes

I just don't see why Liandrys and Rylais works on her plants when they don't work on Shaco Boxes or Heimer turrets.

Her plants take much too long to kill compared to the other 2 notable examples of mini-turret units.

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

Her plants die on their own significantly faster than both Shaco and Heimerdinger turrets, and unlike both Shaco and Heimerdinger, Zyra doesn't have good AP ratios on her other abilities.

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