Why rework champs? You overbuff them and then you gutt them.

Cherysse··8 votes·844 views

KogMaw : reworked him, his numbers where ok before u decided he needed some "love", you moved his AS towards hiw W, now he is straight OP, you now gut him reducing his base AS (instead of reverting changes or reducing the AS granted from W), so that now with the nerfs on the AS items it is impossible for him to reach the max AS with all of the AS items, making his early, mid game and late game SH'T, good move Riot.

Urgot : I hope you keep an eye on him.

Fiora : you reworked her, and gave her a new "identity", you added true damage to her kit, insane ratios and a lot of sustain, guess what, you wanted her to be an hypercarry duelist; NO! you created a SUPER BRUISER, Fiora say hello to my titanic friend item 3748, just build item 3742 and some other random damage item, yeah, she is now an hypercarry bruiser! Lets see how you make your typical "balance arround items" move.

Cassiopeia : you reworked her, now she is on a sh't tier spot, where she is unable to poke properly as she once did, now she is a mana hungry AP that plays like an ADC due to range/E. To the point where I'd prefer to play a midlaner ADC than her. Now you are going to rework her again instead of quickly fixing her numbers and range so that she is able to do what she is suposed to do, poke poison on her enemies.

XinZhao : you gave him "love", he gave us Cancer, if full built he is unkillable, he is top ban now, it seems that you introduced the changes on the PBE and you didn't even test them properly.

Soraka : if she was already defined as a healing bot, now she is the healing machine gun, to the point where you must focus her first in order to be able to kill the ADC, it is such an unfun and toxic play pattern that I don't even know why haven't you fixed it already by just increasing her cooldowns so that she isn't so oppresive any longer.

Sion : how to define what bad rework means? Sion!; totally out of the Meta, his ult is predictable AND telegraphed due to global alarm (sound), his Q is predictable AND telegraphed due to indicators and animations (if he could at least cast it from bush like Nunu casts his ult it would be a change), and his passive is so useless that out of 15 times, he will only use it properly ONCE, mainly because he spends too much time stunned when he dies.

Mordekaiser : another TERRIBLE rework, I feel like if you had totally deleted him from the game, making his E into a 3-hit to kill was a terrible idea, he is easy to poke, has no proper defenses and nobody is going to come close to receive that triple hit. The only compensation was the Dragon Steal, and yet, it compenses nothing, because it seems like he needs a ghost or a dragon to be a full champion.

Shen : so far I don't know what you did to him, he is rather weak over the early game and easy to beat, but once he starts roaming and gets full he is almost unkillable, item 3748 and item 3742 turn him into an insane monster which is capable of landing blows of 300-400 damage, it is insane for a champ that goes full tank, If only other full tanks champ had those benefits....

Quinn : she was my main, and still is, I must say I still miss her old R and the old Q, the new Q is straight forward toxic for one reason; if it is well used you are totally anulated, if the enemy is close it is totally useless. The new R is just the Mount from HoTs, her old problems could have been solved by adding more QoL to Valor form and by restoring her E cooldown upon kill, now she is between those champs that are considered OP, even if I know it is not like that.

MissFortune : low mana costs, incredible capacity to abuse Thunderlord, movespeed boost whenever she desires it AND an ult that can deal up to 3k damage (and possible Pentas), if you don't CC her to death or kill her first, your Team Fights will become a graveyard.

Gangplank : for a time considered straight forward OP, banned in the LCS in almost every game, now you have nerfed him several times (I even think that without testing it properly) to the point where with the current game changes and changes to % armor pen I could dare to say he has been gutted, and the new patch will just cut his legs, add another nerf and just cut his balls already.

Garen : besides screaming Demacia too much, this HIGHLY mobile "juggernaut" is able to get tanky ALONE by farming, rendering him able to build a core damage item as his first. When he gets ahead he becomes a nightmare, when he gets behind he is useless, same history with Illaoi .

Darius : tell me, what were u thinking when you've made his passive? everyone can complain about his Q healing him too much, or his ult being overkill, but I know it is not it, the problem is his passive; IT SCALES WITH ITSELF, I've seen Darius land over 800 damage just whit his passive, it is insane, and when he gets his bonus AD from it you are doomed, he may not even touch you, but the bleed will kill you, it is insane AF, at least his Passive doesn't proc DFT.

Ashe : the crit damage mechanics of Ashe don't even make sense, it seems like you were searching for a way to rework the crit as a stat properly but you failed to see how, and then we've got Ashe. The only good thing that came out of it was the extra slow on crit, because when you took out her gold advantage I could dare to say that you killed her. Because her E is now an useless power which has no reason to be leveled up.

Corki : the rework worked a bit too well for this guy, to the point where his burst and DPS are insane, I hope you don't get him gutted, and just make him more DPS oriented than Burst oriented.

Ezreal : when are u finally going to do something about this guy abusing almost every item, he has got several items nerfed to the ground and has became so obnoxious ingame right now that you see him almost every game.

Tristana : with the ADC's rework she was left out, she doesn't have her own special Niche, she could use an early buff to her passive, so that she gets an small advantage, or at least make her focused on that which was her niche; range. How? make the first hit of her Q add extra range to her first attack. She is currently out of the meta.

Aatrox : when are u going to do something about this guy being a twink? like for real, for a champ that depends on his passive to survive and that spends his own life to use abilities he needs a buff to his base HP and scaling HP.

Kassadin : for a midlane assasin with a terrible early game, he struggles a lot to 100/0 anyone, I feel that all he needs is an improved W (it's passive damage doesn't scale) and more range for his R.

Graves : jungle, top, mid, everything but an ADC, why? his short range is a large problem, he excels on bursting people down even by having low AD on his build, to the point where he feels more like a melee-tank-hypercarry than an ADC.

MasterYi : I don't know what in hell did you add AP ratios on him? are you trolling us? do you want everyone to use item 3124? He is a nightmare now with item 3930 item 3748 item 3742 item 3124 item 3111 item 3026 ... I hope you Rioters once have to fight against a Yi like this one.

Poppy : considered amongst the most ban (sometimes), I've seen this little Yordle carry games ALONE, going 1 vs 3 like if it was a normal thing, maybe it is because you made her which such a base damage due to her ult having almost none, because if it is badly used you will be just saving your enemies, and yes, I've seen it, I think she needs some extra work, to have more power in her ult and less in her base abilities.

Xerath : when you reworked this guy I started playing him more, he was already my main, and it was ok, I even got within the best 800 Xeraths in the world! Guess now, it was because no one knew how to play against him, landing his ult is way too hard and dodging it is too easy, too bad Lux doesn't have that problem.

Veigar : "reworked", with some minor changes, but u turned his Q into an skillshot and added a bit more delay on his stun, now he is almost invisible. You also didn't even give him a decent VU or an Splash update for his skin as you did with Shen, what does he need? more range.

30 Comments

Pika3104 votes

Not all reworks were overbuffs. In a few cases, the initial rework itself was a wholesale gutting equivalent to 25 or more simultaneous nerfs, but then were still met with additional nerfs despite already making the champ unplayable.

Sona

Hello I am Bird2 votes

As a Quinn main, I have to say, as much as I miss her old abilities, I think this was for the best.

Old quinn had a pattern like this:

"Make an advantage going top lane and press that advantage as much as possible before split-pushing late game or dying in teamfights"

Now, worse case scenario, you are a designated blind bot with amazing roaming potential, leading to earlier kill potential because you have the ability to take something other than summoner 12, maybe something like summoner 14.

Cherysse2 votes

I actually play Quinn JG, and I played her before the rework I use red summoner 11 and summoner 14.

I never took Flash with her because I felt like she never needed it, specially because I build Bruiser... even if I am considering to change item 3742 plate for a item 3157 because of meh, Obnoxious :v

And the old problem of her ult could have been fixed with QoL buffs to Valor:

Q while on Valor: travels like a Vi's Dash without charging. If Quinn uses her R while Q is flying or landed recently, she will appear on her Q missile location (Valor).

E: can be used upon ground, reloads upon killing an enemy with Valor.

It could have compensated the fact of you loosing your passive damage while fighting as Valor and could have reduced her risks a lot. I miss using Valor in TF, and I think that those changes could have allowed her to reach high priority targets without dying in the process.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

I really just want valor to spin in a circle after reaching the end of the projectile line :v

Cherysse1 votes

I want it to leave feathers on damaged targets, there is nothing to justify it's AoE on the SFX.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

Valor does spin in a circle after hitting a target...

It's not sfx, but it's detail enough.

Cherysse1 votes

Yes, but there is nothing special to it to justify the AoE, I mean, it could use some particles.

Hello I am Bird1 votes

Is a bird spinning in a circle not justification enough? I always imagine it as a mini tornado :p

Cherysse1 votes

Nope it isn't, we need particles PLOX

Nahui2 votes

Half of this is wrong.

Cherysse2 votes

which half?

Nahui1 votes

I mean Sion's rework was a massive success. They took a champion who sat at the butt of broken jokes with Galio, Urgot, and Taric and made them viable. Sure, currently Sion isn't the best but he definitely had his reign. But even now, he' so much more dynamic and useful than old Sion. He's full of CC, is a big wall of meat, and upon death forces a zone in that you have to run or CC/kill him before he murders your squishies. Instead of a champ known only for the trolly, hilarious AP build, he's now a fully functional juggernaut.

Garen is just Garen. Low ELO he is oppressive but in high ELO he's not too bad. He's all about being a wall of meat that has to be killed or else he will regen post fight quickly. His damage is nothing spectacular, he only has a bit of true damage vs one enemy and you know who it is. He's definitely very balanced right now.

Kog is definitely not shit right now. They overtuned him and broke him, then reduced the AS but he's not useless by any means, he just can't rush rageblade and win the game upon completion. He never has been, even pre rework. He just requires a team comp built around him. Stop him from being bursted at the beginning and he will chew through anyone.

Morde's rework transformed who he was. He went from a tanky bursty AP to an AP bruiser. His rework vastly overpowered him but then he was balanced and now is pretty useful. Morde was never about the guy that went in and destroyed everyone. He's a very good tank who has the ability to make the fight a 6v4 and with new Morde, the ghost is actually pretty fucking strong. Just build Rylai's and maybe another AP item and then go tank. Again, not the best or really meta favored, but definitely not a Galio.

MF came out and was ridiculous, but is now currently fine. Incredibly squishy. next to no mobility, but she will decimate a team fight if positioning is achieved. But, with assassins running around right now as well as mobile mages, she really can't ever ult ideally and the ult can usually be walked out of.

GP came out and the barrels decimated the LCS. He was vastly overtuned but is now finally hitting par. The barrels still do massive damage, but not team wiping damage. He's still played a bunch though, can build tanky and do lots of damage, and has good mobility and sustain.

Darius is just kinda slow. He's like Illaoi. He is designed to be in the middle of everyone and designed to be collapsed on. As long as he isn't hitting everyone with his Q, he actually drops fairly quickly. However, if 3 of you stack around him then yeah, you'll never kill him. Same with Illaoi and stacking for her ultimate.

They didn't really change Corki. They just gave him the package and that allows for a pretty good play every so often. I don't see any change in performance with Corkzilla.

Did they even touch Ez in the rework? I don't recall that they did. He's been pretty good ever since they increased the ratio on his Q. Just we have an AD centric meta right now so Ez is good in that he can build IBG, have it synergize really well, and become tanky and still good damage along with kiting potential. But this is an indirect effect of the meta shift, not something Riot personally changed about Ez like they did Graves.

I wouldn't say Tristana is out of the meta. She's still very good, there are just some higher tier ADCs at the moment but if I see a Tristana on my team, I don't get annoyed or anything.

Graves is dumb. I hate Graves. You're right about Graves. I'm only mentioning the ones I don't think are correct but I'll write something for Graves. He's dumb.

Yi's always had meditate with an AP ratio.Nothing else to my knowledge has a ratio unless they recently changed that. Yi is part of the atk speed jungle group that always fluctuates depending on the on-hit items available.

Xerath is still good. Has incredibly long range, amazing poke, and when you ult during a team fight from a bit away, it's almost a guaranteed 3 shots or flash guaranteed.

Well upon rework with his Q being skillshot and delay on his cage, he was still one of the best mid laners. He shit on AP mids, and deleted ADCs as well plus he has one of the best zone controls in the game. However, with Steraks being so popular, the little guy can't 100-0 anymore really, but that's an item issue, not the champion. I think the skillshot was a good idea as it allows him to farm two minions. farm a minion and potentially poke, and also kite since you can just fire Q back and run instead of having to get in range to target. Given Veigar's kit though, it's fair that his Q should not be targetted since the rest of his kit is not hard to land at all. The cage can guarantee landing W, and the ult is click.

Cherysse1 votes

Sion: true, you are right, I just feel his passive is useless.

Garen: my only problem is that now he gets tanky too quickly by farming.

Kog: I'd prefer that they revert the changes, I mean, I prefer his AS to be in his Q, now it is too hard to reach the max AS, and I use 30% AS runes o him.

MF: she literally depends on the enemy picks to be successful, and to appear as Kat does to land her ult, my problem with that is that her ult has more power than Kat's with more range, I feel like her power should be shifted towards her love tap rather than her R, so that she becomes a Hurricane to win champ rather than Ult to penta champ. She is ridiculous with this build: item 3031 item 3508 item 3031 item 3094 item 3036 item 3147 , No Ms, It feels like if they shifted all the power of Mage Fortune to ADC MF. You could just even take out the RFC and add another Infinity.

GP: he is still good no doubt, but with the nerfs they haven't given any buff in any area to compense, but at least now he is able to buy his ult upgrades more quickly.

Darius: he is a snail, true, but now he has this on his favor item 3071 item 1306 item 3742 and it is part of his regular build. My only problem is how his passive deals insane damage, even when you are far from him.

Corki: he was! they made him deal 55% magic damage and 55% physical damage, they buffed some of his ratios prior to that and added extra base AD to his Q, to the point where it feels ridiculous to watch him land Q's for 350 damage only with item 3078, an item that doesn't grant AP anymore and which AD is poor. He also abuses Thunderlord and the Hybrid Pen, so, he outbursts many midlaners now.

Graves: item 3053 item 3156 item 3078 and tanky AF items, yet he deals f-ck tons of damage and AoE damage, it feels unfair for melee champs, at least champs like Caitlyn can abuse him.

Yi: the new item 3748 and the tanky meta made him a monster now, he has perfect synergy with item 3930 , so that he is able to abuse his passive plus on-hits so quick that he doesn't even require crit anymore, being tanky AF. I know it is because of the items, but it is something that should be looked at.

Xerath: I am not saying he is bad, but he is not doing what he is intended to do, he is easy to kill while ulting because he is distracted, I feel he needs to gain vision of the area while ulting, so that at least he is aware of what is happening, because right now he uses 1 chargue of his ult just to reveal his targets.

Veigar: right, but he is really vulnerable to CC, Assasins and gap closers, while a lot of his damage is delayed, I feel he needs extra range on his W, so that he can use it on scaping enemies/poke.

TehNACHO1 votes

how to define what bad rework means? Sion!

And like that, we've located someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Cherysse2 votes

Have you seen a Sion recently? seriusly? he sucks, he doesn't excel at anything anymore, not even when ahead.

Ralanr1 votes

He's great for helping teammates snowball.

TehNACHO2 votes

Yes, I've played Sion many times in normals since he's such a dumb proxy farmer.

Statistics on the other hand, far better than both of our anecdotes, do not lie. He's apparently more than tanky enough due to how few times he dies despite the absurd amount of damage he takes. He garners a far above average amount of assists while still having just barely above average damage for a top laner, this fact may I remind you made all the more relevant since he's a full tank the vast majority of the time.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Cherysse1 votes

Get up to ranked gameplay, reach gold III or Platinum, then tell me the same.

He dies less because he uses his ult to scape ganks or sticky situations.

TehNACHO2 votes

Or.

Realize champion.gg only used Platinum+ Ranked Statistics.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Cherysse1 votes

What about his win rate? I say this because Sion is currently non-existant on the current meta, it is really easy to scape from him to the point where he is unable to land his damage.

TehNACHO1 votes

Did you not click the link?

52% win rate at Plat+ Ranked.

Cherysse1 votes

True you are right, sorry xD I just think his passive should have him stunned less time I feel it is frustrating that he isn't able to reach his targets, I feel like if the game was a real thing all the champs would just walk and laugh at Sion as he dies alone.

Ralanr1 votes

You realize that not every champion makes an impact in a meta right?

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Pretty much spot on, though some have been nerfed more than you realize; kassadin has been nerfed nearly every season, xerath & mordekaiser had all of their animations changed mostly for the worse.

However for darius, he's slow as a snail, treat him like a melee teemo, don't fight him unless you know you can burst him or have teammates. I agree ezreal should be nerfed instead of all the items he gets to abuse.

I'd also add udyr since he's a combination of yi & xinzhao; he also gets cheap extra damage because of his kit synergy with devourer, while moving faster than kennen, and with a perma-stun at full build.

Cherysse1 votes

I know Darius is already super slow, but certain items compense this: item 3071 item 1306 item 3742 , and you can now begin to see this items in the core build of Darius.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I'm aware itemization can reduce this weakness, but compared to other melee champs he's not nearly as quick; rumble, mundo, garen, jax, pantheon, singed. Swiftness boots are getting nerfed anyway, just a raised cost but still a nerf. Some champions are inescapable though, I wouldn't say darius is one of them unless he snowballs hard, which is unlikely since he's vulnerable to ganks.

KyroRayne1 votes

Shen rant was funny to me. Do you not remember the old Shen that would hit you with his passive Ki Strike for 200+ every few seconds depending on AS, and it was reduced by his W per hit while the shield was up? His almost never ending healing? His Q spam harass in lane?

To be fair, I liked old Shen better, but new Shen doesn't outdamage old Shen. He has a little more burst, but old Shen had better sustained damage and healing.

Cherysse1 votes

He was a nightmare with item 3930 , but his AD side is now really strong, to the point where is burst is incredibily strong late game. You are right when you ay he dealt more sustained damage, but I prefer more sustained damage on him than burst, because now he kills his targets way too quickly and as a tank is really hard to kill.

Add item 3748 for extra synergy and it is hell.

The Whamboozler1 votes

You're complaining about bad reworks and you don't mention Skarner? He got so butchered in his first rework that they reworked him AGAIN... and he's back to being the same old "oh wow, I've never seen someone pick skarner" that he was in the first place.

Riot blows at reworks because Riot blows at game balance. It gets worse every season. I used to see videos of trolly teams or goofy comps winning matches. All supports, tele/revive Karthas or what have you. TRY that silly, fun crap now... I dare you. The meta will stomp you down and eat your soul.

Cherysse1 votes

I still do antimeta stuff like KogMaw JG, but yeah! You are right about it, I forgot about Skarner, sorry.

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