I really don't understand how Ardent Censer was allowed to make world patch.

LegendmakerGX·Oct 7, 2017·112 votes·4,341 views

is beyond broken and it shows at worlds with her attack speed boost puts her at a level beyond other adc plus . This doesn't mean other ADC can't abuse Ardent but damn man how did the balancing team even let world patch allow it to go through without a nerf?

This is stupid watching how ADC melts tank jungler/top because of crit and Ardent rush like damn Riot let tank do what they do and tank damage not get shredded by 100-200 damage each auto at level 6.

39 Comments

ProfDrDeathOct 7, 201716 votes

In pro-play before World's (7.15 and 7.16 - playoffs and regional finals), Ardent Censer popped up with increasing frequency, but tank supports were still the major choice. Thus, Censer was not recognized to be as meta-warping as it truly is (or was, given 7.19's nerfs), and Riot simply pushed at numerical nerf to the item while not changing its functionality much (changing the AS boost and on-hit damage/heal from 20-35 to 25 flat) and thought (with good reason, at the time) that it would be enough to ensure that Censer will be powerful without being overpowered.

The reason for this is that fully embracing the Ardent Censer support meta requires a complete shift in mentality for all lanes - Supports need to bring their Censer supports up to the A game ( Janna Lulu Rakan ) Taric ). ADCs need to switch to hypercarry ADCs full-time, foregoing the training for Ashe and the other utility carries. Junglers and tops needed to find picks to pick up the dimishment in engage potential from the shift away from tank supports. And teams needed the time to train all these elements together and get completely familiar with it.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 7, 20173 votes

And? What exactly are you trying to say? Ardent is fine? Meta is fine? Ardent is an item that should never exist in the first place. Even if we take ardent away adcs are still way too strong way too early.

Athenes LuluOct 7, 201715 votes

He never said that it's "fine", it's just that the Ardent nerfs would force pros to do a massive revamp on their strategies in such a short amount of time. Or in other words, it's so the pro players don't have to change playstyles/strategies overnight after playing around the Ardent meta for a few months.

TLDR: It's for the sake of competitive play, whether we like it or not.

Not saying I like or agree with what Riot is doing balance-wise, either, since soloQ is a disaster.

71060670DEL1Oct 7, 20175 votes

In my opinion the issues with tristana stem WAAAAAAAY deeper than her synergy with ardent.

SweedishGunnerOct 8, 20175 votes

They should disable the item for the rest of worlds because of a "bug".

One35Oct 7, 20173 votes

World's this year is a meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHp95KO8en4

JezboOct 7, 20172 votes

[deleted]

LegendmakerGXOct 7, 201719 votes

[deleted]

StairCasexdOct 7, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Wow I think it's pass your bed time kid a normal conversation would work but I guess kids have to use Eat dog Sh!t as a stupid start to their conversation.

Sure I'll reply to a dumb post kid you only play ADC so you are clearly biased to ADC the tank have to start the engage and CC while covering his Mid/ADC while what does adc do? Auto attack non stop which has no need for skill shot while being behind the tanks who are CCing enemy off of them? TOTALLY ADC takes more skills and brain then a tank when they only have to click a champion and auto attack away.

I think he's trolling and not being serious, pretty common on forums.

notice me Sin piOct 7, 20173 votes

u mean kids are pretty common on forums

It Hertz When IPOct 7, 20172 votes

Well, this IS a video game kept at a PG-13 rating (or whatever the game version of that is).

NineTailedMysticOct 8, 20172 votes

An ESRB rated would be T for Teen, I believe.

TotalJerkOct 7, 20173 votes

Even if the idea of tanks being brainless was true, Ardent does nothing remotely close to making them have to worry about getting caught.

AbibyamaOct 7, 20172 votes

I said it once and will say it again People have been complaining that rito should just stop making such drastic changes that would fuck over pros, Remember Juggs rework? remember lane swap changes?

That's why they didn't want to gut censer

GayFluffyUnicornOct 7, 20176 votes

Who are these "people" never heard someone say "pls don't change the game, please leave soloQ to rot and frustrating so our pro player overlords have fun".

AbibyamaOct 7, 20171 votes

People that say ''WTF DARIUS MORDE SKARNER SO BRoKen!!!!'' and people that likes to watch the pro-scene

ErockandrollOct 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Who are these "people" never heard someone say "pls don't change the game, please leave soloQ to rot and frustrating so our pro player overlords have fun".

I mean worlds is an event that only comes once a year. Going one patch without a major change to allow the pro scene some level of stability is the least we can do.

Besides, we get the exact opposite problem just following worlds. (I.E. preseason) We complain that Riot is maintaining a Stale meta cause worlds, followed about riot throwing everything out the window, and making fundamental changes everywhere.

StarGuardianWeebOct 7, 20172 votes

https://youtu.be/PHp95KO8en4

Accurate video is accurate. Also I can't believe the Victorious skin is going to go to Graves and not one of the many support running ardent censer. :/

My Waifu VanillaOct 7, 20171 votes

Sigh, they pick the victorious skin around april/may at which point in time you were flamed for buying Ardent Censer (even though it was stronger then than now) because you didn't buy a Redemption first.

SwagsogwaOct 7, 20172 votes

I mean it's not even tanks, they destroy everything and tanks are being picked for the sole purpose of protecting them/ picking off the other team's adc. I see 0 bruisers, and almost no assassin.

SwiftKitten88Oct 7, 20172 votes

i think the main issue with item 3504 being worlds patchthe way it is is it is going to make people needlessly hate it even though the issuing casuing it to BE op has ALREADY been addressed and has been live for nearly 2 patches. (it just worlds patch isn't live)

we saw the same thing with Nidalee , people hated her during worlds and complaint "ohh she is soo op" but in LIVE servers he had ALREADY gotten nerfs

PePsiLemoNNOct 7, 20172 votes

Not like they said 1 billion times they don't wanna fuck up the meta right before worlds or anything like that.

One35Oct 7, 20177 votes

They were scared of ruining the meta so they went into Worlds with a...ruined meta?

Ariel the CruelOct 7, 20176 votes

It's not a ruined meta; it's a terrible one. Small difference.

xJLx MCHammerOct 7, 20172 votes

Watching an ADC get full HP from auto attacking minions without any life steal except Ardent Watching supports straight up rush ardent Watching ADC get Relic shield to help get their supports ardent faster

Pretty much everything revolving around bot lane

It's not just Ardent. it's the amount of reliability that Riot has given to the ADC class that they are not only mandatory, but they have been the core of the team now. It's not about catching out a support or ap champion because of what they can do by themselves, it's catching X champion because of how effective X champion is for the ADC

Riot has gone on for 4+ seasons trying to add some sort of counterplay to anyone that is not an ADC. I do hope Riot starts to address this with ADC in season 8

You can have reliable sustained damage Reliable burst damage Best siege Best synergy with support items

And think that the game is balanced.

KrinuOct 8, 20171 votes

Ardent doesn't give lifesteal any more, it's magic damage on-hit for the target of the heal and the caster of the heal.
Enchanter supports would rush it because it's perfectly itemized (AP, CDR, +heal, mana regen, and movespeed) even if the passive wasn't great.
I've never seen an ADC besides Morde take Relic Shield, but it seems like a dubious tradeoff at first glance - most gold income items don't pay for themselves until very late in the game, so you're going to end up taxing the ADC to get Ardent faster... and Censor isn't THAT good. It's about half of a Wit's End for 6 seconds on getting healed. It'd probably be more beneficial to get a dedicated AS/Crit item on the carry instead.

I would argue that a far bigger problem than Ardent is how slot efficient AD items are at granting power.

xJLx MCHammerOct 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ardent doesn't give lifesteal any more, it's magic damage on-hit for the target of the heal and the caster of the heal.

Enchanter supports would rush it because it's perfectly itemized (AP, CDR, +heal, mana regen, and movespeed) even if the passive wasn't great.

I've never seen an ADC besides Morde take Relic Shield, but it seems like a dubious tradeoff at first glance - most gold income items don't pay for themselves until very late in the game, so you're going to end up taxing the ADC to get Ardent faster... and Censor isn't THAT good. It's about half of a Wit's End for 6 seconds on getting healed. It'd probably be more beneficial to get a dedicated AS/Crit item on the carry instead.

I would argue that a far bigger problem than Ardent is how slot efficient AD items are at granting power.

No it doesn't. Now it just amps the damage even more
If you think they rushed it because of the other stats, you are wrong
Well they do, go watch worlds.

KrinuOct 8, 20171 votes

It's damage instead of lifesteal. That's kind of a big deal. Yes, it applies to the support now, too - but it's not the "Janna pushes E on twitch, twitch wins the game as soon as Censer is done" thing that it used to be.
Perhaps "rush" isn't the best term, but it'd still be a first-build item for enchanters after SS.
Remember that worlds is being played on 7.18, which has the old version of Ardent Censer. It's not surprising that they're prioritizing it.

I see tons of people saying "CENSER SO OP IT'S EVERYWHERE IN WORLDS." Well, yes, it is. That's why it got changed in 7.19. It's still very strong on some supports (mostly the ones with both easy healing and on-hit damage boosts like Janna, Nami, or Lulu) but I'm not ready to say it's wildly overpowered yet.

The Last BalladOct 9, 20171 votes

I've never seen an ADC besides Morde take Relic Shield

watch pro play, that's where the strat debut.

StairCasexdOct 7, 20171 votes

I think they just did it on purpose ardent heal was clearly pretty OP but they decided to fix it after the world's patch.

BALDG1VEN BOOMEROct 7, 20171 votes

Because they didn’t want tank supports to over shine their counterparts (enchanters), they even said it.

Miku AppendOct 7, 20171 votes

It's been nerfed to the ground. Easy there with the circle jerk.

JRobin31Oct 7, 20171 votes

I've found that balance changes in League of Legends, generally speaking, are not fine tuned. It's more of an art than a science. It isn't really understood what the exact impact of a particular change will be and not at all clear how much to nerf or buff. If it wasn't item 3504 being talked about all the time, it would just be something else.

RexxieeOct 8, 20171 votes

I dont think you understand but tanks are really broken atm aswell, they are one of the biggest reason other melees are unviable and that the bot lane favors this kind of play style (you need someone to kill tanks, and only adc can do it without killimg themselfes to bramble vest).