@meddler I really like how the cinderhulk increases the overall influence a jungler has in game

Lets make that universal for all junglers instead of the expected nerf cinderhulk and other jungle tanks will receive over the next couple of patches.

Let me start off by saying the jungle in this season is not like many others. early gank pressure is very very reduced or moderately risky. i see no reason why junglers shouldnt feel better about their "endgame fantasy" If they have made a fair tradeoff in game deciding power. Tanks already have that. cinderhulk makes your midgame feel relevant and scale up fairly well.

I would like to see more carved out power curves with some of the other jungle enchantments as well. when combined with the playpattern choice gained from the machete upgrades a very satisfying and interesting jungle with more importance on micro decisions is created.

for that reason the cinderhulk even in its currently powerful state (when compared to the other enchantments) is actually healthy for the game.

Here's some proposed changes that could benefit the game as a whole in this hard jungle early environment

-warrior

AD>reduced to 30 from 40 armor pen> increased from 10 to 20

i think this increases the overall goal of the warrior enchantment making it a excellent fighting item during the mid game and even better if the jungler decides to comit on damage later in the game

at the same time it alleviates some of the "bruiser problems" that we see with some physical damage junglers that get to be both tanky and damage dealers as the item falls off harder due to the nature of armor pen and how it scales better with modifiers than ad.

problems with this potential change: it really hurts some right clickers that dont really want armor pen that much. for example lets pretend skarner wants an offensive choice instead of cinderhulk. he deals much less physical damage and prefers the cdr over the hp of the cinderhulk however skarner would much prefer the 10 extra ad over the 10 extra armor pen.

-Magus

20% CDR> 10 percent CDR (lets be honest there are enough cdr choices for ap scalers so this really isnt a problem for ap junglers. an extra 10% is nice but, it doesnt fit with the budget of the item when it could be more interesting

new passive: Mana regen tripled while fighting monsters as a modifier to the machete mana regen so some of these junglers have the mana regen they need but only in the jungle so nid cant poke you out and be perfectly ok with it

problems: i dont see too many problems with this change but explanation is needed. Essentially the spirit stone effect from last season is tailored to high damage junglers and doesnt promote the type of interaction that this jungle nurtures. by making it regen bonus over regen based on damage if a jungler nukes a jungle camp with all of there spells they normally had a decent mana return with this change a health cost is changed for mana and promotes sitting at the camp for a longer time as well as giving a better return if you invest in mana regen. Overall i think that value and goal wise this item would be in a good spot for ap junglers and the reason we dont see more ap junglers is probably because of individual champion health rather than the magus enchantment.

-devourer

new passive: 5% bonus MS

Problems: i think this item is good at carving out its niche and could use a little bump to be back in viability for a couple aa based junglers like shen shyvana who want a scaling option sometimes instead of the cinderhulk. at the same time its really hard to stick while using auto's and i think this gives the item a better feel for champs who arent very mobile in the jungle to get in between camps faster and lowers the need for items like zephyr or trin force in a build for those who pick it up.

poachers machete upgrade

increases damage to smited monster by 33% (maybe have it not work on baron or dragon im not sure yet.) immediately resets smite cooldown as opposed to 15 second cd when killing an opponents monster you smited

problems: programming mostly might conflict with current script but seems like a valuable change and its not a significant buff to nunu because of the way true damage works. promotes in and out quick steals from the opponent and makes it not terrible in your own jungle but not as good as rangers. also fixes waiting in the opponents jungle for 10 extra seconds for a double steal when counterplay is abundantly available in the form of trinkets and other vision or positioning against counter jungling

of course with all of these changes there is a slight burden of knowledge for understanding but they all function as intended or better towards the original goal with little to no obvious abuse cases.

i want to see more powerful junglers and i think most of the community agrees just not in the early game