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About Veigar future

Decrit·Jan 17, 2015·1 votes·417 views

I belive that our little tactical nuke will fancy sooner or later a slight kit rework.

He has many problems, either on kit, interaction, skill cap and so on, but i won' t talk about that. I just wanted to say that his E, Event Orizon ( the skill tht summons a ring that stuns, for those who does not remember it) is a skill that has a really great impact over the game, and i think it' s more worthy to be an ultimate since it' s able to change single- handly the course of a teamfight even better that amumu's ulti, for example. I say this because, looking at it, becomes obvious that in order to make it healty it will be nerfed some ways, making it less cooler. His actual ultimate, a single target nuke is not really ""intresting gameplay wise"" and could be swapped for this massive CC, leaving his E slot oper for some other skills that could help him to survive the lane phase/land better W without his stun/ something that can help in a less facemashing nuke chain and so on.

Toughts?

10 Comments

Luner HunterJan 17, 20152 votes

His actual ultimate, a single target nuke is not really ""intresting gameplay wise""

except for the fact his identity is tied into that he IS an ANTI-MAGE with the nuke to make good on his identity's theme

if we're going about ""intresting gameplay wise"" can we add in Fizz's troll pole for removal too?

DecritJan 17, 20151 votes

Is he really an anti-mage? and mostly, if he does, he really needs to rely on enemy AP?

I play him a lot, it' s my favourite champ for every reason, but i can' t hide that objectively he has some gameplay faults. Sure defeating the enemy with his own powers sounds cool, but this is a moba and that can generate pretty edgy scenarios... probably still something enemy-centered, but not that relies on a stat that is either used or neglected by a class of champions ( like mana, ad or ap) since more than an anti-mage i feel him more like a "geomancer of corruption" ( geomancer as somebody that brings power from the ambient, in this case including people souls and so on,l and corrupts/twists them on his favor), that is a more generic direction.

and please don' t bring other discussions here, leave Fizz where he is xP

Luner HunterJan 17, 20152 votes

Is he really an anti-mage? and mostly, if he does, he really needs to rely on enemy AP?

that 80% of enemy's AP scaling doesn't rely on the enemy ap?

I play him a lot

not enough if you didnt realize the 80% of enemy's AP on his ult

DecritJan 17, 20151 votes

you did not undertoood my reply, i guess...

is he an anti-mage thematically? i checked lots of times the tooltips, i see that scaling, but that is fitting of him? he is a mage, a sociopathic killer, a hungerfull sadistic, a corruptor and keen to absorb/understand magic, i agree, but there are way and way better things to do in order to express his ability to draw power from others than using enemy ap for his own. for pure damage only, after all.

Luner HunterJan 17, 20151 votes

now this i can see your side on however removing "the nuke" from a champion who's identity is "the nuke" would be the same as removing sona's aura... you end up with a totally different champion thematically and gameplay wise ... now having it scale differently.. maybe with the stacks of his Q instead of 80% of his targets AP would be an interesting alternative :)

DecritJan 18, 20151 votes

I never said i wanted to remove the nuke. Probably not kept as it is now, probably with some dependancy on Q farm ( as you said), or making Q situationally more powerful ( like making Q stronger on enemies with less than half health... that would be useful also for farming! but it' s just the first example that passed in my mind), probably making his E an utility that increases his offensive power in some way, but still there u.u

I agree your point, he is nukish and it's his identity: a little giggling tactical nuke, air-ground and ground ground xD

Long Dong WukongJan 17, 20151 votes

All there really is to do with Veiger to keep him pretty similar in playstyle is to remove the current R, make E less stun but add a slow, and then make his R like Heimerdinger. Empowered Q then becomes previous R, empowered W is more like a slightly bigger Xerath W that leaves a DoT or something, and empowered E like previous E + it does damage, and it would probably need to refund 50% of the empowered skill's cooldown after use or something too.

Otherwise I don't know what they would do, really.

DecritJan 17, 20151 votes

really, copypasting skills from other people is not brillant! :P i don' t dig this. Plus slow... why? i agree this stun is a bit obscene but let' s not pile random effects now...

Long Dong WukongJan 17, 20151 votes

Most of anything new in this game is sharing multiple mechanics with multiple other characters. There's very little new you can actually do that isn't something ridiculous like Rek'Sai tunnels.

Heimer is the only champion in the game with a skill that empowers his other skill in the fashion that it does, having another champion use a similar mechanic on completely different skills isn't exactly going to cause some kind of homogenization problem.

Diana R? Akali R + conditions. Darius R? Garen R + conditions. Nami R? Sona R but knockup + slow in exchange for a slower projectile. Jinx R? Ezreal/Ashe R + conditions. etc.

Similar ults aren't a problem. It's not a copy paste, it's simply a skill that fills a similar role but has a different mechanic stuck to it.

Plus slow... why?

Also, adding small slows after certain hard CC's is a pretty common way for Riot to boost the power of the skill without it being overbearing. Braum R, Nami R, etc. Without the slow, they'd have to be basically 3 second hard CC's to make them worthwhile, and being stuck for 3 seconds sucks, as proven by how much people hate a root from Morgana. Roots aren't that bad compared to a knockup or stun. So a slow makes a skill more powerful without being rage inducing. That's why this game is full of slows.

DecritJan 17, 20151 votes

Thta' s just a lazy way to solve a things like this, really. Just because it works it doe snot mean it should be reapplied to everyone. Plus, as you are saying it now, it seems really plain: that would devaluate him and the unicity of heimer and karma.

About slows: really, adding a slow effect on an aoe cc just because is not a good solution either :P they did it, ok, fine, but it was on different champions following different thematics. and that still does not give reason on why Veigar shoul be a copypasta. Ok he must not be a special snowflake on everything, i agree, but making him similiar to other champions is fruitless too.

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