Does Zed need some tuning?

xJLx MCHammer··35 votes·2,049 views

I really think Zed needs some tuning. I don't mind his insane damage because it's something that can be avoided using Zhonya and QSS. My problem has always been with his wave clear ability when he is losing lane. He has a very easy time spamming because he is mana less. He sustains through his own build order, and he has the able to initiate and easily get out, one of the few assassin left who can do it

Now, I don't know what to nerf, his kit works nice together but he is way to oppressive when winning and way too safe when losing. I really think the nerfs he received a year ago need to be increase. His Q and E dmg need to be nerfed against minions.

I understand fizz and talon can do the same but they have high mana restrictions that are very crippling early game. Zed has none. They also don't have a free escape like Zed does who can retreat from a bad initiation with little to no risk involved. While fizz and talon can both do it, they lose a huge chunk of dmg potential to escape or retreat.

Not to site win rate, pick rate, and ban rate, but zed is at top five chart for all three categories.

25 Comments

Gorzke16 votes

Making the Energy Refund change to became an R passive instead of W would be nice.

**Death Mark: ** Passive: . If a target is struck twice by a mimicked ability, Zed restores some energy. Energy can only be restored once per mimicked cast.

Energy Restore: 20/30/40 Energy.

This way he becomes less opresive early game, but becomes better mid game (Level 11 he restores 30 instead of 20, level 16 he restores 40 instead of 30). But at late game he becomes as powerfull as is now.

soulbanana83 votes

This. It would be a great change because it reduces his early power, which is ridiculous considering his late game can be just as terrifying.

Yfrappefort10 votes

Zed is just horribly designed. No energy champion should have good farming, great escape/initiation AND assassination power to top it off.

I mean, look at Kennen . He must choose to use his shuriken to harass or farm (single minion at a time). Zed can just farm many minions AND harass at the same time...

Kennen must use two abilities if he wants to wave clear AND it also put his escape on CD. Zed can just wave clear easy while keeping his escape.

Kennen can go all in on you, but to do that, he must use everything. His escape, all of his spells, but then he is left vulnerable to counterattack. Zed can just melt your face without allowing you to do anything, then safely exit back to his shadow that is like one miles away.

Kennen is a good exemple of what an energy champion should be. He got clear strengths/weaknesses and can't do everything.

Zed on the other hand got everything without sacrificing anything.

Airmez

{quoted} Zed is just horribly designed. No energy champion should have good farming, great escape/initiation AND assassination power to top it off.

I mean, look at Kennen . He must choose to use his shuriken to harass or farm (single minion at a time). Zed can just farm many minions AND harass at the same time...

Kennen must use two abilities if he wants to wave clear AND it also put his escape on CD. Zed can just wave clear easy while keeping his escape.

Kennen can go all in on you, but to do that, he must use everything. His escape, all of his spells, but then he is left vulnerable to counterattack. Zed can just melt your face without allowing you to do anything, then safely exit back to his shadow that is like one miles away.

Kennen is a good exemple of what an energy champion should be. He got clear strengths/weaknesses and can't do everything.

Zed on the other hand got everything without sacrificing anything.

Meanwhile, LeeSin

SouL1ess6 votes

Or stop his passive from working on minions, denying Zed's ability to still achieve perfect CS when the wave is pushed into his tower.

097Aceofspades4 votes

Hi, Zed main here. A lot of people are complaining about Zed atm, but no one agrees on why he's OP. IMO, it's a mix of him being safe, along with the fact that he scales REALLY well off of Bork and Armor pen. The way to fix him would be to revert the change to AD itemization, and reduce the efficiency of his energy regen (your proposition works well) Before they changed the itemization, zed was fine EDIT: was meant to be a reply to @Gorzke

Gorzke1 votes

He has been pretty healthy to the game almost all his life, but with the AD itemization change and Mana Regen nerf, he can clear all lanes without cost (mages start to get OOM now, Zed doesn't) and has better late game build than before.

Wizzleboom3 votes

increase his cooldowns so he can't spam it.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

{quoted} increase his cooldowns so he can't spam it.

This hurts him too much tho

Wizzleboom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=td3oMn1G,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2014-12-14T00:41:26.166+0000) This hurts him too much tho

Not if you scale it properly. You simply increase lower rank cooldowns so they can't poke non stop with no real cost or risk.

Alëk3 votes

I feel its his shadow that needs a longer cooldown. I posted this in a different thread, but i guess I'll just say it again. Everybody is complaining about him now that some of the other assassins have been nerfed. IMHO, people have a complex about champions that can instagib. But onto problems that can actually be dealt with. Zed's problem is his capability to do consistent damage in lane, using shadows to put pressure on the enemy laner while remaining safe. I believe its a matter of his shadows cooldown early game. His Living Shadow's cooldown is 18 minus the duration the shadow is active, so 14 seconds. By lengthening it's early game cooldown to 22 seconds, it would reduce his capability to clear waves, and force him to make a decision about being aggressive, or being passive and saving his shadow for escapes. If you want to be even more salty, then reduce the duration of the shadow to 3 seconds.

TeemoHunter13373 votes

zed is basically the mid lane lee sin. people will always QQ about him but zed is really delicate. if they nerf him, it will hurt him too much, and if they buff him it will help him too much. he is kinda hard to bring to balance. im a zed main here and i find him very fun so i dont want riot to do anything too drastic but i will say he is really powerful. his late game falls off but his mid game is whats good.

if anything they should nerf his ability to farm safely, but not nerf his damage or ability to fight enemies as he gets cced or anything he dies easily.

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

{quoted} zed is basically the mid lane lee sin. people will always QQ about him but zed is really delicate. if they nerf him, it will hurt him too much, and if they buff him it will help him too much. he is kinda hard to bring to balance. im a zed main here and i find him very fun so i dont want riot to do anything too drastic but i will say he is really powerful. his late game falls off but his mid game is whats good.

if anything they should nerf his ability to farm safely, but not nerf his damage or ability to fight enemies as he gets cced or anything he dies easily.

Yeah, pretty much this. I have no problem with zed in the fact that he can busy people down. Like I said in the opening post, his kit works great as a whole. But again when he is winning he is too oppressive, but when he is losing, he is too safe.

I was playing cass last night against him. The first 5 levels despite me winning he is able to safely get as cs as me. Then at level 6 he starts to win so he gets soo sttong by lvl with rai he turret me two times. At lvl 12 I was winjing agsin and once again he keeps up in cs

When a cass is losing, you notice it on so Rob, either her dmg or tankyness. When zed is losing he is Keepibg up in farm with ease

Alëk3 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=td3oMn1G,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2014-12-14T02:11:53.801+0000) Yeah, pretty much this. I have no problem with zed in the fact that he can busy people down. Like I said in the opening post, his kit works great as a whole. But again when he is winning he is too oppressive, but when he is losing, he is too safe.

I was playing cass last night against him. The first 5 levels despite me winning he is able to safely get as cs as me. Then at level 6 he starts to win so he gets soo sttong by lvl with rai he turret me two times. At lvl 12 I was winjing agsin and once again he keeps up in cs

When a cass is losing, you notice it on so Rob, either her dmg or tankyness. When zed is losing he is Keepibg up in farm with ease

ur on a phone aren't. I couldn't understand this at all.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

{quoted} ur on a phone aren't. I couldn't understand this at all.

Yeah lol sorry

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

A lot of up votes but no comment

Basamian1 votes

"I don't mind his insane damage" I missread the title as Zac instead of Zed and I was like wut at that line.

Skia Asteri1 votes

Make it so BotRK and Last Wisper are sub optimal on him. Fixed.

Pvt Yong Tai1 votes

I think the only real thing that needs to be changed is his shadow jump range. He can jump as far as he wants, and that's kind of ridiculous. It allows him to dive as deep as he feels like because he doesn't have to worry about not being able to make it back. No assassin should have that level of safety.

Sohleks1 votes

I'm cool with Zed's capabilities later in the game if we tone down the laning somehow. I just hate how he drops shadows right on top of me landing his abilities that way.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

What always irks me about Zed is the fact how strong of an assassin he is with a DPS item as his first buy. Especially since his AD multiplier allows him to build it and still do ok-ish damage...

And his easy waveclear. Why does an assassin have such a reliable fallback pattern again?

2pudge1cup1 votes

haha

I think 2-3 weeks ago I made a thread about net toxic champs and a lot of posters used Zed as a balanced, well-designed assassin. Ah, how things change quick.

For Carthage1 votes

Change that bollocks passive. There's no reason for an AD champ to get even more assistance in farming. Honestly.

xJLx MCHammer1 votes

Bump

SomeAsianChigga1 votes

i dont have any problems with zed or playing against him once his W is on cooldown i just pounce on him and he cant escape.

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