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It feels like everyone does too much damage

xJLx MCHammer··113 votes·7,249 views

I haven't played this game since last season, but it feels like everyone has evolved from sustained damages to burst damage. Champion who are supposed to have sustained damage suddenly can do insane burst damage

I played as a Karthus and I feel like in my game, I was the only one who had real sustained damage. The Hyper Carry adc were chunking my 30% of my HP per hit mid game. kha was doing 80% of my life from one Q and W. Even the tanks were chunking life very quickly with no damage items

As Karthus most team fights ended within 5-8 seconds. The main goal for me was not trying to do a lot of damage, anything that looked at me was doing huge damage to me. I just used whatever means possible to get into the enemy line because they all die quickly from my E +R after ult.

What the **** happened?

To be clear, I'm not complaining that Karthus is weak. I'm just complaining that everything is dying too quick. I remember when you used to play karthus, he would be able to take a trade with the enemy for small amounts. I hit the enemy with a few Q's, they hit me back with a few of their abilities. Sure, id get chunked but it was not close to what is currently going on

Ffs the Kha was coming to my Lane just to W because it chunks huge amount of HP. More laughable, because people are dying so quickly, the towers feel so quick. I remember people would not dive a Karthus very easily because it was scary if he walked you in and you took a lot of Tower hits. I tried the same thing and he literally just walked away chunking me for 80% under tower and not dying...

78 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSo53 votes

welcome to the league of damage

GigglesO6 votes

But only these champions get damage, and the rest are forgotten about.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

all champs do damage now

GigglesO5 votes

Urgot DrMundo Galio Shen Taric

oSEXYPLATYPUSo14 votes

mundo can do a lot of damage

urgot can do alot of damage . galio with a 5man ult can nuke an entire team

Aeszarck4 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-26T19:10:03.067+0000)

mundo can do a lot of damage

urgot can do alot of damage . galio with a 5man ult can nuke an entire team

I agree on all counts. Galio does damage even without his ultimate. Resolute Smite does a disgustingly high amount of damage.

Melledoneus1 votes

You were wise to leave out that Shen does a lot of damage.

Because he literally has to buy an item to deal it.

leaguewut2 votes

On-hit Shen is definitely viable at lower elos

Papa Andrei2 votes

{quoted}

Lightning Shen is definitely viable at lower elos

Fixed it for you

Fondling Gems5 votes

You really think Taric doesn't do damage? He is easily the hardest hitting tank support in the game with the possible exception of Naut, and Taric can duel a Naut after he gets a couple items. He might show up low on the damage graphs of Champion.gg, but that is for a couple very good reasons.

He has to be in range to be doing damage. This means that while he is capable of doing quite a bit of damage he is rarely doing it. Champion.gg takes a look at Plat+. As you get to those rankings Taric becomes more and more focused on healing rather than fighting bot lane and he is held onto for his late game ults.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-02-26T21:35:26.870+0000)

You really think Taric doesn't do damage? He is easily the hardest hitting tank support in the game with the possible exception of Naut,

TahmKench

Fondling Gems2 votes

True, forgot about Tahm, haven't seen one in forever. He definitely hurts but I don't think their damage levels are that far apart. Tahm has better poke for sure though so throughout the laning phase he definitely does more damage.

Aeszarck3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=00000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-02-26T21:35:26.870+0000)

You really think Taric doesn't do damage? He is easily the hardest hitting tank support in the game with the possible exception of Naut, and Taric can duel a Naut after he gets a couple items. He might show up low on the damage graphs of Champion.gg, but that is for a couple very good reasons.

He has to be in range to be doing damage. This means that while he is capable of doing quite a bit of damage he is rarely doing it. Champion.gg takes a look at Plat+. As you get to those rankings Taric becomes more and more focused on healing rather than fighting bot lane and he is held onto for his late game ults.

Have you seen this? It's outrageous how much damage Taric does in this fight (with help from minions and Ashe). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOrvNqRMB-I

LordGeovanni2 votes

are we really crediting taric with damage from 3 waves of minions

LordGeovanni3 votes

Taric got reworked and lost 2 damage tools with utility for a highly telegraphed signal to tell the enemy to back off for 2 seconds then come back and if you go in before useing it you die because tank items already bad and support items are worse. the rest do damage but none do damage fast enough to keep up with the meta which requires you to have a spell to spam ever less than 4 seconds mid game

Moetaro29 votes

This game should be renamed to "League of Duty" or "League Strike:go".

They should remove minions (their agro is laughable, anyway) and towers (kind of the same), and implement a sound "HEADSHOT!" when you oneshot someone with your Q, and "Fire in the hole!" when someone uses his R.

They are fgkng this game hard, tbh.

Hexs Fortune14 votes

They just nerfed damage across the board

Irelia Bot27 votes

They only love tapped mastery damage and lethality a little.

Tanks still die in under 3 seconds too often when having 350+ armor and 4000 health against an all AD team.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-02-26T16:11:13.032+0000)

They only love tapped mastery damage and lethality a little.

Tanks still die in under 3 seconds too often when having 350+ armor and 4000 health against an all AD team.

Tanks fall off after mid game by design

Irelia Bot5 votes

if this was a meta with crit builds I would agree due to the 5 factors of multiplicative scaling compared to the 3 for physical damage defense but I do not see many crit builds happening.

Not even Rammus or Malphite are able to take much of a hit anymore and they get a lot of extra armor.

Sagan Forever6 votes

Rammus and malphite were nerfed because they counter ad carries in season 6, never understood that. The champions made to counter adcs are doing well vs 3-4 adc teams, time to nerf them:(. Feel sad with ya.

Joxcab1 votes

Cutting everything in half is a love tap?

Big Lincoln13 votes

"everything"

they cut tiny percentages. damage didn't take a noticeable hit

Irelia Bot19 votes

half of 1% is .5%

It is something but also negligible.

Now if they made champs unable to buy black cleaver with Last Whisper and made Lethaltiy apply before Last Whisper then we would be seeing some noticeable damage reductions.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

My idea was to make lethality and flat reduction only apply to base armor and all percentage pen and reduction only apply to bonus armor.

Irelia Bot3 votes

That would make Lethality still 100% effective agaisnt everyone.

It shoud only be ideal getting lethality to contend with squishy targets not the 200 armor enemies who already have their armor reduced to 117 from black cleaver combined with Last Whisper. Currently it is 90 base armor + 110 bonus armor 200 reduced by 30% to 140 then the remaining 50 bonus armor is reduced by 45% meaning it is down to 117.5 the nsubtract say 50 for lethality and the 200 armor is now down to 67.5

If it was Black cleaver followed by Lethality then Last Whisper it would be

200 reduced to 140 140 - 50 lethality results in 90 No bonus armor remains so there is no bonus armor being reduced by 45% meaing that 90 armor is still in effect.

Not saying it is perfect but the fact that people often see tanks only as engagement and not object to try and avoid focusing first speaks volumes to how much defense has been nerfed over the years.

PB4UAME1 votes

Doesn't matter if you waste two seconds to kill a tank-- it did matter when it took closer to 10-20 seconds to kill a tank.

Irelia Bot3 votes

I want it to be at least 5 to 10 seconds instead of usually under 5.

Woodakoodashooda1 votes

The difference is actually noticeable.

Imagine a common scenario in which an enemy hits you for nearly all your health and then ignites you to try and finish the job since you've flashed out of range. You believe that you are most likely already dead and that it's only a matter of seconds before that final ignite tick kills you. In desperation and with no hope of truly living, you consume all of your health potions or biscuits or what have you. And then the ignite reaches it's last tick and you find that you've managed to survive with less than 20 health.

That is the difference in damage now. The difference is whether or not you can survive that which should kill you so you have a chance at survival or retaliation.

Lethality stacked is now 75 or less with runes, items, and masteries.

The damage tree offers less percentage damage.

Black Cleaver, a staple on many fighters and abused by a handful of ADC's received a nerf to its damage. The health compensation, I feel, is no compensation at all. Black Cleaver never really felt like a tank item for surviving fights, but rather something utilized to shred squishy targets, but unless complimented with armor, even it and those who wield it pale in comparison to the late game power of an ADC.

In order to secure kills against targets on competent teams, timing and a heavy investment in damage is often required.

Just the other day, I struggled to end enemies simply because their support mitigated a large amount of the damage I dealt and damage was all I purchased. At the end of the game, I checked damage dealt to enemy champions and, to no surprise, I found that I had dealt nearly 45k damage to enemy champions despite having obtained less than 15 kills.

xJLx MCHammer3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2017-02-26T19:26:00.466+0000)

The difference is actually noticeable.

Imagine a common scenario in which an enemy hits you for nearly all your health and then ignites you to try and finish the job since you've flashed out of range. You believe that you are most likely already dead and that it's only a matter of seconds before that final ignite tick kills you. In desperation and with no hope of truly living, you consume all of your health potions or biscuits or what have you. And then the ignite reaches it's last tick and you find that you've managed to survive with less than 20 health.

That is the difference in damage now. The difference is whether or not you can survive that which should kill you so you have a chance at survival or retaliation.

Lethality stacked is now 75 or less with runes, items, and masteries.

The damage tree offers less percentage damage.

Black Cleaver, a staple on many fighters and abused by a handful of ADC's received a nerf to its damage. The health compensation, I feel, is no compensation at all. Black Cleaver never really felt like a tank item for surviving fights, but rather something utilized to shred squishy targets, but unless complimented with armor, even it and those who wield it pale in comparison to the late game power of an ADC.

In order to secure kills against targets on competent teams, timing and a heavy investment in damage is often required.

Just the other day, I struggled to end enemies simply because their support mitigated a large amount of the damage I dealt and damage was all I purchased. At the end of the game, I checked damage dealt to enemy champions and, to no surprise, I found that I had dealt nearly 45k damage to enemy champions despite having obtained less than 15 kills.

It's true, that 2% here, another 1% there, even .5%, can be noticeable. What I do notice though is that Exhaust is more popular now than Ignite. It used to that you needed that extra damage from ignite to really kill someone. Now? even assassins prefer to use exhaust because taking 40% less damage is more important that doing another tick of their HP.

And in regards to the mitigation of support. That's the result. When everyone does a lot of damage, the counterplay ends up being the other end of the spectrum.

Woodakoodashooda2 votes

Exhaust itself is receiving nerfs so that its offensive application is reduced or even altogether eliminated.

xJLx MCHammer28 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-26T16:08:00.487+0000)

They just nerfed damage across the board

Yeah I did see the patch notes. However, I'm not mathatician but it seems they only lowered the damages to a few passive masteries tries

Saving me 2% of my HP is not a lot when you are chunking 30% per hit

PB4UAME3 votes

This, they need to double down on the damage nerfs, maybe even cutting it by upwards of 50%. Its ludicrous right now.

Teklm1 votes

{quoted}

maybe even cutting it by upwards of 50%.

Never change Gameplay.

SpecterVonBaren10 votes

It honestly DOES feel a bit better after the damage masteries nerf, but yeah could still do to go down more.

GGLineaR2 votes

Thunderlords and Lethality are probably to blame, tbh.

leaguewut8 votes

There's too much CDR in the game, and Karthus doesn't scale with CDR. It's pretty much as simple as that.

CDR creep is infinitely more problematic than lethality or thunderlords or anything of that sort. When your tanks, adcs, supports, and midlaners all hit 40% CDR all of the time, you know there's a problem.

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

{quoted}

There's too much CDR in the game, and Karthus doesn't scale with CDR. It's pretty much as simple as that.

CDR creep is infinitely more problematic than lethality or thunderlords or anything of that sort. When your tanks, adcs, supports, and midlaners all hit 40% CDR all of the time, you know there's a problem.

What does CDR have to do with every champion doing damage

I had a full tank jump on me as Zigs, we both chunked each other to ~10% with our spells. He was a tank, I was a full damage. What does CDR have to do with me playing as Karthus and a Cait who 3 shots me? What does CDR have to do with me playing as Karthus and kill the ADC in 2 Q's and 1 second from my E?

I'm not talking about Karthus like he is an outliner in the statistics. In general, everyone is doing too much damage. I remember when I played a ziggs and the idea was to whittle down my opponents before I try to go for a kill. Now? It's more about just landing your rotation correctly.

Golden Tager X6 votes

FLA$HYLC$PLAY$

Right here is what riot has changed everything to revolve around

Forget the other stuff that is actually what makes the game league we gotta have those super flashy plays man.

Which is funny because you see even less of them now because one mistake=death=tower first blood=loss 70% of the time

NineTailedMystic5 votes

anything that looked at me was doing huge damage to me.

You're also Karthus. Not saying damage isn't high, but he's one of the squishiest champs in the game.

xJLx MCHammer3 votes

{quoted}

You're also Karthus. Not saying damage isn't high, but he's one of the squishiest champs in the game.

You wont find an argument there. I know he is. However, there used to be a time that you can build ROA, Ser, Zhonya, and Rylais without feeling like you will die in 3 hits from a ADC or a Zed who missed everything except E+R+AA.

The fact that they enemies can damage me so quickly and not get punished from a turret is evident of that. The responsive is not to make towers strong, it's to scale back of damage throughout the game.

I've read enough from riot since yesterday to see why they have made these changes. I understand they feel like they need to make games faster. The problem is they made games on average 3 minutes faster (their last statistics they released). As a result, damage across the board is borderline burst for nearly every champions.

Azir W+Q used to be a positioning tool with a slight poke. I just play as a Annie.. guess what, he chunks about 30% from my HP from that. Varus chunking 50% from someone's HP. Zed landing W+Q chunking 40%.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about a champion being over powered. I'm saying that every champion is doing more damage. I remember playing in mid and bot lane where there would be multiple trades between players before you go in for the kill. Now? all i see is Flash + Some form of CC = death. Why? because you can get out of a CC lock from Malz and the damage any champion does right now feel so burst that you are a guaranteed to be dead/

I even played as last night since everyone already got their roles. My Q + Passive chunked about 40% from an ADC....

youjealous874 votes

I went from b3 to s3 (not a huge accomplishment) but I think they made damage so strong because a lot of people have no clue how to optimize their champions for the most damage

So with damage so high it gives players who dont know any better some help

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

{quoted}

I went from b3 to s3 and I think they made damage so strong because a lot of people have no clue how to optimize their champions for the most damage

Yeah, it's possible

I mean, I used to laugh at Hereoes of the strong for going the route of "everyone does damage" but if you actually play that game now, you realize, LoL has a bigger power creep

If you get caught off, you don't die within 1.5 second of the first ability landing. Don't get me wrong, you are dead regardless but there is longer period between deaths

Moetaro12 votes

I started playing LoL because I was playing HotS, and I tested LoL. I said to myself "wow!, this game has much more strategy involved, it's much better" and I quitted HotS to start LoL. Fuck my life! Look at what LoL has become.

Now, I tested dota2 because LoL has no more strategy involved at all, it's just a kill'em all game, and I'm following the same process again. I'll do it bit by bit, because it's so annoying to learn all the champions and items and strategies again. But 100% sure I'll change to dota2.

I dont know what riot is thinking about. Do they really think that they can change the core of the game, the way it is played, and still keep their player base? they're nuts! there's a reason why people play LoL and not other mobas, fuck that reason and you can say good bye to your player base.

GL building another player base again, btw, that looks like easy, isnt it? (irony).

Dealth1 votes

Damage hasn't really increased that much, it's just made up in peoples minds that it has. If you look at older gameplay footage they took the same amount if not more.

Edit: downvote me if you want, but people have been getting 3-shot since the dawn of League. You guys just want the game to be easier for you.

xJLx MCHammer6 votes

{quoted}

Damage hasn't really increased that much, it's just made up in peoples minds that it has. If you look at older gameplay footage they took the same amount if not more.

Edit: downvote me if you want, but people have been getting 3-shot since the dawn of League. You guys just want the game to be easier for you.

No, I checked. You can even watch some LCS games from any season you want other than back when Cleavers were out or Zed games. People use to trade multiple times in lane before attempting to go for kills because there weren't many champions who can easily 100-0. Yes, there were a few, Zed, Syndra, but it was never like this. Look at my game yesterday, the ADC would have killed me in 3 hits (if it for blocking the third from Zhonya). In return, she took 2 Qs and she was down to critical HP.

Bot lane barely trades. Its more about who can poke because trades tend to result in kills because of the damage.

Dealth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-02-26T21:13:25.875+0000)

No, I checked. You can even watch some LCS games from any season you want other than back when Cleavers were out or Zed games. People use to trade multiple times in lane before attempting to go for kills because there weren't many champions who can easily 100-0. Yes, there were a few, Zed, Syndra, but it was never like this. Look at my game yesterday, the ADC would have killed me in 3 hits (if it for blocking the third from Zhonya). In return, she took 2 Qs and she was down to critical HP.

Bot lane barely trades. Its more about who can poke because trades tend to result in kills because of the damage.

Here is a quick example of how high the damage was in Season 2.

I found this from skimming over the S2 Finals (which I watched live, by the way). There are countless examples of squishies 3-shotting eachother, not just this one.

https://youtu.be/1owVnryn5R4?t=16m33s

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

{quoted}

Here is a quick example of how high the damage was in Season 2.

I found this from skimming over the S2 Finals (which I watched live, by the way). There are countless examples of squishies 3-shotting eachother, not just this one.

https://youtu.be/1owVnryn5R4?t=16m33s

That damage is no where close to now. If anything, that top lane fight 2v2 showcases how team fights were. Look how many hits that Sona takes from a Vayne post lvl 6. Look how many hits from another ADC does Vayne actually tank.

As opposed to what we have now, even in LCS where a silly Malz Ult +Flash = death before you can use flash...

And quite honestly, if I can say anything is, the game has evolved into counterplaying an ability before it happens. You have to avoid

Dealth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gz2REzu2,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-26T21:57:35.426+0000)

That damage is no where close to now. If anything, that top lane fight 2v2 showcases how team fights were. Look how many hits that Sona takes from a Vayne post lvl 6. Look how many hits from another ADC does Vayne actually tank.

As opposed to what we have now, even in LCS where a silly Malz Ult +Flash = death before you can use flash...

And quite honestly, if I can say anything is, the game has evolved into counterplaying an ability before it happens. You have to avoid

That's because they are level 7, that was about average for a level 7 fight. Vayne only has 10 bonus ad, Ezreal has 20 ad. So it's exactly what you would expect from champions who haven't developed any damage yet.

I feel like you are comparing this to fights where the carries have already developed damage items. Of course two champions who are building all offensive items and no defensive items would kill each other quickly.

The meta right now does favor high damage champions (especially last patch). If you look through your match history you will find that only 1 or 2 champions are building defense while the rest are building full damage. I'm sure the meta will change when the tank reworks come out. The point I am trying to make is that the amount of damage dealt has not increased, it's just that everyone is building only offense and no defense.

I am also saying that people complaining about this find the game to be too difficult, mostly because they are unable to adapt to the meta.

xJLx MCHammer4 votes

{quoted}

That's because they are level 7, that was about average for a level 7 fight. Vayne only has 10 bonus ad, Ezreal has 20 ad. So it's exactly what you would expect from champions who haven't developed any damage yet.

I feel like you are comparing this to fights where the carries have already developed damage items. Of course two champions who are building all offensive items and no defensive items would kill each other quickly.

The meta right now does favor high damage champions (especially last patch). If you look through your match history you will find that only 1 or 2 champions are building defense while the rest are building full damage. I'm sure the meta will change when the tank reworks come out. The point I am trying to make is that the amount of damage dealt has not increased, it's just that everyone is building only offense and no defense.

I am also saying that people complaining about this find the game to be too difficult, mostly because they are unable to adapt to the meta.

In comparison, lvl 7-8 now is instant flash from Malz to get a kill because the death occurs before the CC ends..

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