Leblanc isn't a problem because of her damage RIOT it's how she delivers it.

ApexInTheCircle·Nov 17, 2018·57 votes·16,710 views

Point and click nukes little to no room for counter play and no one cares about how when she lands a chain it's supposed to feel "rewarding" It's cancer my dudes. She needs her kit nerfed or reworked to point where shes not useless but definitely easier to deal with in lane.

Again let me say this again because others are saying it too and you're not listening. Her damage is okay! It's the way that she delivers it that's not.

57 Comments

Slythrin UmbreonNov 17, 201818 votes

Been saying it for over four years: Distortion is by far the most problematic thing in her kit.

BârdNov 17, 20188 votes

The mobility aspect of distortion is something I actually really like, especially because she gets to use it twice.

The issue is that it also deals damage, so instead of being encouraged to use Distortion for trickery she uses it to shove herself directly onto her targets face.

Bootleg GayNov 17, 201814 votes

Don't gotta nuke your targets; you are the nuke.

YEET

ThefrostyvikingNov 17, 20181 votes

AP Gragas agree´s.

Original SinNov 17, 20181 votes

You're right.

charge attackNov 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The mobility aspect of distortion is something I actually really like, especially because she gets to use it twice.

The issue is that it also deals damage, so instead of being encouraged to use Distortion for trickery she uses it to shove herself directly onto her targets face.

That’s extra stupid. That’s what happened with the rework and it was cancer. She would distortion like 500 units away from you and not lose any damage - making her even harder to catch. At least now when they distortions into your face at a bad time she can be punished.

VerxintNov 17, 20181 votes

It was a lot easier to punish the LeBlanc that had to jack off for 1.5 seconds to do her damage than the one that could unload it all in an instant.

BârdNov 17, 20182 votes

The issue with that LB was that they made her far too weak.

IMO, when looking at what Leblanc should be allowed to do, they should be trying to give her one of two kill conditions.

"Death by a Thousand Cuts": Give her moderate burst on a short CD, and give her even more tools to trick and out-maneuver her opponents.
"The Veigar Approach": Give her the same instant kill potential she has now, but have that potential rely on the enemy stepping into your trap, if only for a moment.

Giving her instant kill potential along with her incredible mobility means that she has the range/CC of a mage along with the mobility and burst of an assassin, so unless you specifically need waveclear Leblanc crowds out the other two options.

VerxintNov 17, 20181 votes

Ironically they tried to change this in her rework and LeBlanc mains threw a collective tantrum

l MrD lNov 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slythrin Umbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tcvrdT3V,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-17T02:38:29.035+0000)

Been saying it for over four years: Distortion is by far the most problematic thing in her kit.

i wouldnt say distortion alone ... for me its the combination of ethereal chains and distortion

Q W alone is something you can play around but when she uses W to get behind minions to then proceed to use a long ranged E and Q combo thats what i find the problem to be

ankoanko19Nov 17, 20187 votes

They tried to reduce the distortion speed but it just ended up with them having to buff it back. They need to nerf that stupid fucking tether range.

DepressedTomokoNov 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They tried to reduce the distortion speed but it just ended up with them having to buff it back. They need to nerf that stupid fucking tether range.

They actually nerfed it when they reverted her, unless you mean in like season 5 when they reduced it from 1600 to 1350 then buffed it to 1450 It's still a nerf, btw

ankoanko19Nov 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

They actually nerfed it when they reverted her, unless you mean in like season 5 when they reduced it from 1600 to 1350 then buffed it to 1450 It's still a nerf, btw

Yeah thats what I mean. If they just reduce it more, itll be useless.

Bears Dont CareNov 17, 20186 votes

Back the nerf leblanc cries. She really isnt that peoblematic. Annoying yes, but she is very presictable and managed by competitive mid lane choices.

For example, does lisssndra not counter her? Or zed?

Binding EclipseNov 17, 20185 votes

My biggest issue with her isn't even the Distortion (though it definitely isn't the most healthy ability in the game), but how easy it feels to land her tether AND its ridiculous range. She moves as slow as molasses, yet I've seen people flash and STILL NOT GET AWAY FROM ME. It makes me feel dirty.

Slythrin UmbreonNov 17, 201815 votes

chainingpeopleupissupposedtomakeyoufeeldirty [leblanc-funny]

Binding EclipseNov 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slythrin Umbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tcvrdT3V,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-11-17T03:24:34.250+0000)

chainingpeopleupissupposedtomakeyoufeeldirty [leblanc-funny]

okay tru

stone the blacksNov 17, 20184 votes

Point and click nukes little to no room for counter play

item 3095 ? item 3147 ? all of the marksmen are point and click nukes after 1 item

My Waifu VanillaNov 17, 20183 votes

Nerf W minion damage. LeBlanc's damage to champions is fine. It's the fact she has waveclear and puts her escape on a super short cooldown (since she maxes it) making her annoying to play. Also, until level 13 I shouldn't have to worry about a rather petite woman doing the most damage to me through full on tackle.

LeBlanc's rework was a mess because she was able to max Q and still have waveclear while "feeling" bad to play. Now LeBlanc is reverted back to maxing W where she gets waveclear, minimal damage loss to champions (compared to Q max), much higher mobility, and it is all AoE in actual fights (such as when she shoves mid in with her waveclear and runs bot and Q+W+Rs the two bot laners for 70% of their health). Both have problems, but at least when LeBlanc maxed Q you felt like you could actually catch her.

Original SinNov 17, 20184 votes

lol wave clear. Thats something leblanc definitely has. LOL

My Waifu VanillaNov 17, 20183 votes

W max LeBlanc is barely behind most non-dedicated waveclear mids. Before the nerfs she was AHEAD of the likes of Lux and was only 35 damage behind Ahri. NONE of these champions can kill casters until Luden's Echo so the damage difference actually doesn't matter that much.

What I am getting at is Assassins should not have access to even DECENT waveclear early on without commitment. Talon has to buy a tiamat. Zed has to use ALL 3 abilities. Ekko got nerfed multiple times for having waveclear. The problem with LeBlanc is that the ability she maxes FOR waveclear also just so happens to be her engage/disengage tool. Imagine if putting points in Talon W, Zed Q, and Ekko Q reduced the cooldown of their Q, W, and E respectively? They would get everything they wanted. That is the situation LeBlanc is in right now and it isn't exactly the most healthy thing in the world.

Original SinNov 17, 20187 votes

W max LeBlanc is barely behind most non-dedicated waveclear mids

Leblanc is hell to cs with. Before ludens you mainly use auto and q's. Exactly like anivia. Leblanc needs her w to trade and so she cant use it to wave clear early.

NONE of these champions can kill casters until Luden's Echo so the damage difference actually doesn't matter that much.

Once ahri gets a blasting wand and lost chapter she can definitely one shot casters. She doesn't need to wait 1050 gold for ludens to clear backline.

After leblanc gets ludens she clears back with w and now she now has nothing to clear melee/cannon for 7 or so seconds. Her wave clear is absolute garbage.

NineTailedMysticNov 18, 20181 votes

Once ahri gets a blasting wand and lost chapter she can definitely one shot casters. She doesn't need to wait 1050 gold for ludens to clear backline.

Requires level 9 with rank 5 Q and about 100 AP.

Original SinNov 18, 20181 votes

Leblanc can't one shot at level 9 with rank 5 w. She needs ludens to one shot casters which ahri can do. I'm just replying to the dudes comment that 'NONE of these champions can kill casters until Luden's Echo so the damage difference actually doesn't matter that much.' Cos ahri can and leblanc cant. Leblanc needs to wait 1050 gold which ahri doesn't. Thats all.

EranellNov 18, 20182 votes

And csing against her is also hell as soon as she hits lvl 2 since she deals like more than 200 damage in less than a second that is practically undodgeable and gets out unscathed 90% of the time. Cast your Q just in with your W add an auto attack for "Electrocute" and BOOM the enemy can practically recall because when she does that another time you're pretty much dead and at that point it doesn't matter how bad LB is at farming since she got all the time in the world to do so without fearing an enemy champion.

Somebody Love MeNov 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tcvrdT3V,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-11-17T08:08:26.224+0000)

W max LeBlanc is barely behind most non-dedicated waveclear mids. Before the nerfs she was AHEAD of the likes of Lux and was only 35 damage behind Ahri. NONE of these champions can kill casters until Luden's Echo so the damage difference actually doesn't matter that much.

What I am getting at is Assassins should not have access to even DECENT waveclear early on without commitment. Talon has to buy a tiamat. Zed has to use ALL 3 abilities. Ekko got nerfed multiple times for having waveclear. The problem with LeBlanc is that the ability she maxes FOR waveclear also just so happens to be her engage/disengage tool. Imagine if putting points in Talon W, Zed Q, and Ekko Q reduced the cooldown of their Q, W, and E respectively? They would get everything they wanted. That is the situation LeBlanc is in right now and it isn't exactly the most healthy thing in the world.

Ekko can still clear a wave lv 1 with Q and a couple autos. Talon can still clear a wave with W and a few autos after first back without tiamat.

Zed I agree with but he's also one of the safest melee champs in the game

Leblanc can't clear backline without Ludens, especially after the slight nerf to W.

Ahri can kill casters with Q at lv 9 regardless of build (as long as she goes AP). Shit, she goes GLP now and still can kill backline.

My Waifu VanillaNov 18, 20181 votes

If you let talon or ekko walk up to last hit casters after he uses W (or Q respectively) and not lose 1/4 their health there's an issue. Talon needs Tiamat to make W+Tiamat in the middle of the wave clear so he doesnt have to auto 3 different times in the middle of your creep wave.

NineTailedMysticNov 18, 20181 votes

Ahri can kill casters with Q at lv 9 regardless of build (as long as she goes AP). Shit, she goes GLP now and still can kill backline.

Needs rank 5 Q and about 100 AP.

Shit, she goes GLP now

You mean the bad ones running GLP and Glacial Augment because they need a crutch?

LordGeovanniNov 18, 20181 votes

100 ap isnt hard to come across at all no matter what ap build you try by the time as level 9 its easy to have 1 full item and 75% of another item done without kills

NineTailedMysticNov 19, 20181 votes

Did I say it was? If Ahri gets put far enough behind though, she's not hitting that benchmark by level 9.

LordGeovanniNov 20, 20181 votes

then dont pretend that she is some how disenfranchised about needing 100 ability power by level 9 when by time as level 9 you already 180 ability power in with 18 penetration at least

Somebody Love MeNov 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Needs rank 5 Q and about 100 AP.

You mean the bad ones running GLP and Glacial Augment because they need a crutch?

I don't consider it a crutch anymore after elec nerfs. Her damage kinda falls off anyway and the utility is low key op

Rank 5 q is lv 9 so doesn't really change my comment

FilDaFunkNov 17, 20181 votes

If she uses W to waveclear, you've obviously won the lane.

YuGiHoNov 17, 20183 votes

If we out here calling for the nerfs of point and click nukes i would like to nominate Veigar for nerfs as well

LichKing234Nov 18, 20181 votes

with Veigar he has to build up his instant kill point and click nukes. the longer the game goes on the more of a threat he becomes to the point hes one shotting tanks with 300-400 mr LB falls off late game to only if she can pick off the enemy adc or mage/assassin if they wonder off

NumberOneBallerNov 17, 20183 votes

LB is just annoying, nothing more. Idk how you can complain about LB when you have shit like Kaisa at 40% pick rate. Let's not forget cancer incarnate Akali

Pika FoxNov 17, 20181 votes

Kaisa is fotm, not broken. Akali was always popular so now that she got a fun rework that is actually balancable people are playing her again like before.

Summonah12369Nov 17, 20182 votes

I got one shotted by a fucking Kassadin the other day, whom got fed off of our lagging mid (even though I actively ganked mid), and it's not like he had DH or anything.

Tomoe GozenNov 18, 20182 votes

Again let me say this again because others are saying it too and you're not listening. Her damage is okay! It's the way that she delivers it that's not.

I guess you haven't played against Veigar mains in a while? Because everyone loves getting R shotted into oblivion from full HP with a single spell, i hear.

ApexInTheCircleNov 18, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tcvrdT3V,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-11-18T00:34:32.384+0000)

I guess you haven't played against Veigar mains in a while? Because everyone loves getting R shotted into oblivion from full HP with a single spell, i hear.

Okay so I'm glad you said this because I partially agree with you and I don't. I'm going to assume you don't know how Veigar works if you think his R can still one shot people. Since it's an execution now. the most his R is capable of doing with 1k ap is around 1k damage with an ult that is a single target nuke and he has to be extremely farmed up in order to even reach that point. But you know why you rarely if ever see Veigar in the ban phase or QQ threads like mine about Leblanc?

Veigar's win rate is actually very low for the first 20 minutes of the game and he is currently hovering around Leblanc's win rate which is a problem for me for 2 reasons-

Leblanc's pick rate right now is massive. She's sitting at the number one spot for mid pick rates so for her winrate to not be lower? usually indicates she's performing extremely well.

Veigar's 19th place for mid pickrate you know what's this funny? Aatrox mid is picked more than Veigar.

And just to reiterate what I said before. I don't have a problem with Leblanc's damage I have an issue with how reliably and how easy it is for her to deliver it.

And on one last note Karthus with 1k ap actually does more damage with hit ult and to 5 people than Veigar does without softening up his targets. So a karthus with 1k ap can essentially laydown 5k+ worth of burst in one ult...Just food for thought.

Mossy LungsNov 18, 20182 votes

Y'all can stay in Iron lmao.

Cloud273Nov 17, 20181 votes

Clones should take extra damage or something. Make it easier to tell who the real Leblanc is, and make it easier to get rid of the fake one when it gets in our way. I don't understand why something that's not even real takes so long to kill. Same for Shaco's ult too.

Mael broNov 17, 20181 votes

First things first: pick . He hard dumpsters Leblanc and all points of the game except Leblanc has better roaming potential. If there is one champ that makes LeBlanc eat her own medicine it's Brand.

FiddlestićksNov 17, 20181 votes

They should make her W slow her by 20% for 2s after using it two times in a row. Her problem is her endless mobility across the map to one shot someone.

PsyrixNov 17, 20181 votes

the Q is her real issue imo... even the E is easily fixed by decreasing the tether range. The Q is point and click and immediately buffs the damage of the next ability. If q was changed to some form of skillshot it'd likely be more easily forgiven. The rework originally fixed a significant part of that issue by having a cook-time, I'd love the rework to be brought back, prbly change the Q cooktime to a set ratio depending on how charged the sigil is, allowing LB to have more immediate agency instead of "having to wait". The excuse for the change to how R worked (in the revert) was lackluster af and borderline insulting.... "reclicking the ability was clunkier than just pressing R", it really wasn't, and was a weird excuse for Riot to come up with... the better argument was that it was more forgiving to LB. I'd love if they brought back the shadow of the rose double R clone, actually felt like you were doing something deceiving when done properly.

WolfeurNov 18, 20181 votes

Hmm, it's almost like they should rework her so that her damage isn't instant and so reliable…

EranellNov 18, 20181 votes

LeBlanc also really doesn't live up to her title as "The Deceiver". Only 2 of her 5 abilities have something to do with deceiving your enemy, namely her Passive and her Distortion.

And then of course the laziest to think of ability there is, which is her ult. "Use one of your other abilities just with modified damage". Even Heimer's and Shyvana's Ults give more than just "modified damage".

Oh no wait, according to the wiki her E is an "illusory chain". So I guess that makes it okay, huh?

EranellNov 18, 20181 votes

Let's just think about the title for a second. "The Deceiver".

What can be Deceived? Senses.

What senses are there? Sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch. (I'll stay with the common 5 and more or less exclude stuff like sense of direction, temperature or time)

Which of these 5 could be influenced by a video game mechanic? Mainly sight and hearing to some degree. Smell, taste and touch? Nope.

So right of the start the concept of "The Deceiver" is ripped of 60% of all the possible things to deceive. Well then, what about that which is left?

Sight: Here we could go with seeing double/clones (seeing things which aren't there), not seeing things that ARE there (aka invisibility), twisted controlls (sense of direction). The first 2 things are actually included in her kit. LB's passive includes double vision and invisibility and her E makes you lose track of her. Twisted controlls, while actually being part of multiple video games in form of reversing left-right, up-down, back-forth, this would be impossible to execute fairly in a game with strategy like top down controlls. Deceiving your hearing ability is also not possible to execute fairly in this sort of game.

BUT to be fair right now I'm talking about Deceiving the player and not the champion. There are still more two things within this games mechanics that are fitting for a "Deceiver". Impairing vision and fearing the enemy and I think these mechanics could be included in her kit with enough effort and changing her into a control mage.

"Deceiving" shouldn't mean making you think you have an HP bar. And yes, I know that is what her one and only joke is all about, but who cares? Ezreal lost his in his update as well so screw her bad joke.

LordGeovanniNov 18, 20181 votes

but they FEEL like they worked so hard on her rework.

ApollyonBainerNov 18, 20181 votes

Maybe get out of the way? Idk I dont play mid too often but when I do I play lissandra and if she uses her w I go in right away