Another Yasou thread. (though actually not QQ!)

it be lìke that··32 votes·12,537 views

Look at the current state of Yasuo. 48% Winrate, but the highest banrate at just over 53%.

This literally should be everything needed to confirm even when Yasou isn't OP people just do not like him being in games. This isn't fair to the people who main the champ even, Could you all imagine your main being banned everrrrrrry game? Your team going "ffs a yasuo..." I know I am guilty of it too, secretly hoping the other team bans him.

Something needs to change riot. Start with windwall.

73 Comments

PANAGIA PARTHENA19 votes

Yasou triggered

it be lìke that1 votes

cant edit titles my b.

PANAGIA PARTHENA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tYM9kOwv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-05-27T17:15:52.769+0000)

cant edit titles my b.

I'm only joking :D

Pika Fox7 votes

Its more to do with his popularity. Whenever any champion is popular, regardless of power, theyll be banned more often.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

I do that a lot. But that is because some champs like yas and vayne suck if they are an ally, and op if an enemy.

Zeppelins circus6 votes

In my opinion. Yasuo is supposed to be unpunishable, but is punishable due to the players imput. Making him very unreliable as a enemy or ally. This should not be a thing.

Daddy Ants6 votes

What fuels my hatred for Yasuo is things like this -

<image removed by moderation>

Doesn't matter how hard I stomp my lane.

Doesn't matter how hard top lane wins (He was at the Inhibitor turrets at 13 mins)

1 Person can ruin a game entirely...

People say "Bot Lane loses, The game is over."

Yet both Bot and Top lane won.... Mid loses and we lose the game.

{quoted}

GIVE WINDWALL HP RITO WTF

Windwall should have Control Ward HP.

1 hp removed by auto attacks. 2 HP removed by abilities.

The wall expires once it's HP is 0 or the wall expires on it's normal timer.

AR URF3 votes

{quoted}

What fuels my hatred for Yasuo is things like this -

<image removed by moderation> > > > Doesn&#x27;t matter how hard I stomp my lane. > > Doesn&#x27;t matter how hard top lane wins (He was at the Inhibitor turrets at 13 mins) > > > 1 Person can ruin a game entirely...

That's naming and shaming my dude.

ModPeriscope1 votes

I've removed your image, as it was naming and shaming a player.

If you have any questions about this moderation, feel free to reach out to us in the Boards Discord or Discuss the Boards.

TheRossJanitor6 votes

Speaking as a M7 Yasuo main, please Riot, just remove Windwall already. Give Yasuo a new W similar to Irelia's or something where he gets damage reduction. Windwall is the only reason people still ban Yasuo these days. I've seen ADC and support players banning Yasuo even with 0% possibility they'll be laning against him. I don't even attempt to lock Yasuo anymore as I know he'll most likely be banned anyways. Windwall is not even that good in my perspective, 26 second cooldown rank 1 (and you won't rank it up to lower cooldown until like level 14 or some shit) and half of the time I literally forget I even have it. It's useless in melee matchups and only serves to annoy midlane matchups before their Olaf jungle comes and Es you for half of your health.

Just remove it. It's a toxic ability.

Spicy Rice6 votes

And this folks, is why mastery 7 doesn't mean shit.

The reason behind yasuo having such a strong defensive tool compared to other melee carries like irelia, fiora, yi, trynd, and jax, is due to him having inherently low base stats.

Yasuo gets banned a lot in silver, just a fact of life, and no rework that doesn't completely dumpster him will change that.

If you are forgetting you have windwall, I don't even want to know how your yasuo mechanics are, not to mention a lack of general game knowledge saying that it's useless in melee matchups and only serves to annoy mid lane matchups.

For example, you can windwall fiora w, irelia ult, riven ult, mundo cleavers, maokai ult, rumble e, panth spears, not to mention you can use it to gain vision over walls to hop over using e, as well as use it to cancel your q animation in fights.

Along side that, it's literally your best tool in mid lane matchups. It how you are able to both approach, and disengage safely without getting bursted or cc'd to all hell. Hell, even in your example where olaf is ganking, you can simply windwall his q, and then run away safely, or at least buy time for other options to become available

TheRossJanitor4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tYM9kOwv,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-05-26T22:52:58.182+0000)

And this folks, is why mastery 7 doesn't mean shit.

The reason behind yasuo having such a strong defensive tool compared to other melee carries like irelia, fiora, yi, trynd, and jax, is due to him having inherently low base stats.

Yasuo gets banned a lot in silver, just a fact of life, and no rework that doesn't completely dumpster him will change that.

If you are forgetting you have windwall, I don't even want to know how your yasuo mechanics are, not to mention a lack of general game knowledge saying that it's useless in melee matchups and only serves to annoy mid lane matchups.

For example, you can windwall fiora w, irelia ult, riven ult, mundo cleavers, maokai ult, rumble e, panth spears, not to mention you can use it to gain vision over walls to hop over using e, as well as use it to cancel your q animation in fights.

Along side that, it's literally your best tool in mid lane matchups. It how you are able to both approach, and disengage safely without getting bursted or cc'd to all hell. Hell, even in your example where olaf is ganking, you can simply windwall his q, and then run away safely, or at least buy time for other options to become available

Well, considering my Yasuo winrate is higher than yours, I'd assume my mechanics are pretty decent.

The point isn't how good Windwall is. The point is how Windwall itself is a toxic ability that only inspires hate for the champion. Me forgetting windwall was an exaggerated joke to emphasize my point that while it is certainly useful and one of Yasuo's main strengths, it is not needed. You know who else has "inherently bad base stats"? Akali, who has a similar winrate to Yasuo and no windwall to speak of. She has lower range and uses an energy-system in which Yasuo does not.

Since we're talking game knowledge, since you want to insult mine, I notice you implied that Windwall does more than annoy enemy midlaners and is somehow useful in melee matchups. If so, then why does Yasuo have below a 50% winrate mid even though his W directly counters almost every mid laner? Because people aren't stupid, and they can bait windwall before dumpstering you with a combo. In melee matchups, can Windwall block Yi's autos, Darius's pull, or Jax's E? No, it can't. Most meta melees are not affected by windwall at all. You're reaching.

The problem isn't that windwall is OP against midlaners. The problem, which has been said by multiple individuals for years, is that its simply not fun to play against. If it were OP, Yasuo wouldn't be dumpster tier right now. So please, flaunt your game knowledge again.

Note: Olaf can spam Q more than you can spam windwall unfortunately. A CC midlaner and an Olaf can work wonders. It was just an example, but since you wanted to try to debunk that point, newsflash: good junglers won't gank an ungankable lane. Don't know what kind of perfect games you play, but in reality, they won't go in until windwall is either down or you're super pushed in.

And this folks, is why M7 doesn't mean shit.

PhearBunny5 votes

Irelia is 5x the nuisance Yasuo is.

That unlimited mana Q, effortlessly 100% CS in lane, absolute nuisance to play against. Absolute nuisance to play with her on your team too, because she takes 100% of CS with her Q. To me, she is very similar to Yasuo, just cheesier and more user friendly.

Nyarlathοtep3 votes

No? Irelia is a puppy compared to yasuo.

Also WHAT? Unlimited mana q? Wait what? It doesnt refund its cost. And yeah you are right, she can cs in lane with ease. But thats not unique to her. There are plenty champs that can do it too like nasus zed yasuo etc. There is no way in hell irelia is easier than yasuo. With irelia you have dashes only when there is a target low on hp. On yasuo, there is no hp limit. Yes she can mark enemies in order to dash but her e is difficult to land and unless you are a slow champ you shouldnt get hit in the first place. Also, yasuo has a true panic button that saves the day. Irelia has too, but she roots herself.

OH OH i almost forgot, irelia has mana, aka if she is out of mana, she can only aa.

ThePikol5 votes

Riot should remove his ult under turret safety and do some work to windwall. AND THEN see if he is less frustrating to play against

5050BS4 votes

He is STUPID OP in the hands of someone who knows how to play him. Thats part of the issue

KZ Engel1 votes

so is riven. and ahri. and zed. and vayne. and literally any champion with high capacity for skill expression.

The Space Cowboy4 votes

Wind wall is fine. Free crit chance not so much.

KZ Engel4 votes

>"not qq" >"nerf wind wall"

pick 1

TheMinionLeader3 votes

GIVE WINDWALL HP RITO WTF

Hèntaî 2 votes

The pain of being a yas main is real, if you hover him for even a second someone on the team tilts and all the blame goes towards you for any little thing that happens.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

Tell me about it

TheCodeisCupCake2 votes

Just to everyone, he has a 48% win rate, wtf do you think nerfing windwall will do to him. He'll drop to 43% at the least, If your gonna nerf his identity ability (Windwall) you better buff the rest of his kit to make up for him. But imagine giving his Q more damage, makes him op early to snowball him late, Imagine buffing E damage again, it'll repeat S6-S7. Imagine buffing his passive shield, no, Imagine buffing his ultimate by reverting the crit armor pen, also no. The champ is in the best spot (for the community) as he will ever be. Removing windwall is basically removing Yasuo. Yasuo, is not Yasuo, without windwall.

no to toxic2 votes

Other late game melle hypercarries can work without windwall while having less tools to work with than Yasuo. Proving Yasuo in itself is a bad champ design, meaning he needs changes.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

Give me some examples, i believe you, i would just like to see who

no to toxic1 votes

Yasuo has his Q allowing him for easy harras in the laning phase like Gangplank Fiora he also has mobility on his E like MasterYi Tryndamere Fiora Irelia thats fine and all but now let´s look at his way to midigate damage wich every single melle hypercarry has Fiora has her W a fine ability wich she can utilise in many ways to either slow someones attackspeed in a 1v1 or to avoid burst damage or CC, the Fiora needs to time her W in the right time and if she misses her W and it isn´t late game she will most likely die. Gangplank also needs to decide the right time to use his W but it´s more forgiving since freeing yourself from CC is always good even if you take 0.5 longer than you should. Tryndamere got his ult as a form of ult midigation same as Xin Xhao. Yi got his W and his Q as a form of damage control. Wanna know the difference beetwen all this damage midigation and Yasuos windwall. It´s all selfish. Yi can´t save his by healing himself. Xin Xhao can theoratically save teammates with his ult but´s it´s too situational to count. Notice also another thing. The only times where you could make yourself untouchable at all was with Fioras W wich last0.75 seconds. Yasuo does the same thing to the vast majority of ranged and even melle characters for 3.75 seconds. Only he can use it to help his team and not just himself. He also doesn´t need to time his W since it lasts so long. So you preety much took away the weakness that other such champs had. Imagine if Rivens W would give allies around her a shield if they were in a 500 range of her that´s what Yasuos W is.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

With the Fiora example, Fiora herself becomes immune to damage, Windwall doesn't make Yasuo immune to damage, If malachite R's a Yasuo, wtf is windwall gonna do? Fiora however, clicks her W and takes no damage while stunning Malphite back.

Irelia is the same thing, its damage reduction on everything and its not like you can walk to the side to remove the damage reduction, like windwall, the reduction will happen no matter what for 2-3 full seconds, Windwall can be kited around. Tryndamere examples i don't get, thats an ultimate your comparing it to a basic ability.

Yi becomes untargetable while dealing dashing and damaging four targets, better than windwall. His meditate stacks his passive, pauses his ULT and E and heals him and reduces damage. In Yi's personal case its better than wall.

Yes these are all 'selfish' but they are better individual abilities due to being 'selfish'

ƒrostγ2 votes

Windwall and/ or his passive needs to change. His kit is extremely toxic this way, A good player can abuse them, a bad one is gonna ruin the game for his team.

IkOerman2 votes

The problem with Yasuo is that the one playing him can either totally destroy the game by being able to 1v5 or go full retard and go 0/20 in 5 minutes. I think the bans are mainly out of protecting the team from the latter.

sowhatimrich2 votes

Yeah, windwall needs changed. Or removed. It really is not a complex concept to understand when a single ability completely nullfies ~35-40% of kits in the game, there is a problem with said ability in its current form.

five oh tree 1 votes

I agree he needs some kind of update, but I think windwall is the ONLY part of the kit they should keep, as that should be his identity: the skirmisher good at punishing ranged-reliant champs.

saltran25 votes

You know that Windwall is probably the most hated Yasuo skill since it can negate entire champ's combos I say literally the opposite: if Yasuo gets an update windwall should be removed.

PokladnicaZla4 votes

Entire enemy team combos*

Tahminatrix 15 votes

{quoted}

You know that Windwall is probably the most hated Yasuo skill since it can negate entire champ's combos I say literally the opposite: if Yasuo gets an update windwall should be removed.

His entire kit is built to negate everything everyone on the other team is doing....he has a knockup which isn't countered by tenacity, his ult gives him armor shred, he has his windwall to give everyone who is ranged the middle finger...he has a low cooldown dash that makes slowing him almost useless and skillshots are harder to land....riot literally gave this champion all the toxic crutches it needs to perform as a melee adc...

SooFr0sty2 votes

Good thing any melee just runs up and punches him in the hepatitis l

CppL4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tYM9kOwv,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-26T20:13:24.079+0000)

His entire kit is built to negate everything everyone on the other team is doing....he has a knockup which isn't countered by tenacity, his ult gives him armor shred, he has his windwall to give everyone who is ranged the middle finger...he has a low cooldown dash that makes slowing him almost useless and skillshots are harder to land....riot literally gave this champion all the toxic crutches it needs to perform as a melee adc...

You forget his ulti puts him out of turet range.He"s literally low risk high reward champ.

D357R0Y3R3 votes

sure, if the dude who's doing the combo has no neurones

Emo Twink2 votes

{quoted}

You know that Windwall is probably the most hated Yasuo skill since it can negate entire champ's combos I say literally the opposite: if Yasuo gets an update windwall should be removed.

At least have the hitbox less forgiving (not coming from him), or be like the second part of Braum's shield

TheCodeisCupCake3 votes

SOMETHING, BEING HATED, ISNT BASIS TO CHANGE IT. If your doing that then might as well remove Zed's ultimate, Leona's CC, Cho'gaths Ultimate, Duskblade, Teemo in general, Talon, Soraka and Janna.

Idk wtf u expect Yasuo to do without windwall, he has no other defensive options, Talon can go invisible, Zed has two dashes one of which makes him untargetable, Khazix can go invisible. If u want to trade windwall for a 10 second cd invisibility buff then go ahead, see if that makes people less salty.

Idiot.

FutureCreator3 votes

Zed has two dashes

Yasuo has like six, maybe seven. Oh let's not forget that his passive gives him a free shield for walking around.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

Fight him in the river?, Fight away from minions? Position yourself so he cannot dash towards you without being gang banged by your tanks or assassins? Idk anything at all?

FutureCreator1 votes

You could use the positioning argument for literally any of the assassins you listed. Not like you can always choose where you fight him.

TheCodeisCupCake1 votes

Yes you can? Unless its for an objective, which happen in rivers btw. You can choose where to fight him!

Masala Chai1 votes

I think that an update at hand should not prioritize his core kit, but change how his across power elo structure. Bronze and Silver Yasuo players should be more punishable, whereas Platinum and Diamond Yasuos should have greater ease getting him to a spot where he needs to be for his team.

TheGreatNinx1 votes

To be honest I think even if they changed him I think he will still keep his current ban rate or slightly lower because it's yasuo.

SooFr0sty1 votes

People will always ban yasuo because his kit counters their favorite type of champions.

Same reason why I ban Janna/zilean is because I play mostly divers in which those champion counters.

princeblumpkin1 votes

Yasuo's banrate wasn't even that high until he started being played at MSI. This anti-Yasuo hysteria happens every single year and will pass in a couple months just like it always does.

Vlada Cut1 votes

I preffer stomping him instead. :^)

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

Yasuo is a champion with clear and rewarding moments of strength both defensively and offensively. His visuals are easy to read, his intentions are telegraphed, his strengths are condition, and he encourages - nay, forces - both players in the lane to engage one another during the laning phase.

As a result he is a well designed and, contrary to the massive amount of bitching, healthy champion. I'd argue he's the pinnacle of Riot's stated design goals of 'moments of power' and 'laner interaction'.

With that out of the way, Yasuo threads are great for a few things:

'#1: Outlining how blatantly Board's users misunderstand the buzzwords they use.

Toxic, hypercarry/ (interchanged a lot, though technically different things), anti-fun, stat check, free stats, no counterplay. These are all terms which Riot has created throughout the years to help explain abstract design principles. Of these terms, the only one which could possibly apply to Yasuo in his current form are free stats (his crit % increase, which makes perfect sense when looking at his kit as a whole). The other ones are demonstrably untrue.

'#2: showing that Boards reacts strongly to visual clarity.

It doesn't take a keen eye to pick through the threads here and see that champions who have clear and visible power are reviled, while those who are just as dangerous / more dangerous in the same way, but don't have massive warning on that danger, fly under the radar.

This point, ironically, is very much 'proof is in the pudding' when it comes to Yasuo being well designed.

'#3: Understanding Boards players don't want to understand champion interaction.

Simply put, League is fast approaching 150 champions, and all of those champions are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses. For some champs, their strength is being decent at everything but excellent at nothing. Others specialize in a handful of areas; Nocturne has unrivaled target access but lacks the burst, or tankiness, to be a super strong diver / assassin in most cases, Renekton has a monstrous lane phase but doesn't scale, Darius storms through team fights but is super vulnerable to CC / kiting / being focus fired.

Due to how those strengths and weaknesses interact, some specific champs will make very hard MU's for other specific champs. Such that if the person playing the exploited champ is unwilling to adjust their various factors, they are going to have a rough time.

This is fine. This is normal. This is not a problem.

This is a huge problem in NA in general. People need to get their head out of their asses and recognizes that champions and roles are supposed to have strengths, and if you fail to give those strengths respect you are liable to get shit on. The answer is to improve as a player, not scream and wail for nerfs like an autistic baboon.

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